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Chester and Master were sitting on the porch watching the birds in the trees and listening to their melodies. Chester started frowning as if working out a problem and to no one in particular exclaimed, "It doesn't make sense. They should work together. Why don't they see it?"
The Master looked over at Chester and asked, "What are you referring to?"
Chester continued still to himself, "Science has several disciplines, biology, physics, astronomy, geology and such, but they are all a study of nature in one way or another." Turning to Master he directed a question at him. "Why do the different religions act as if they are the only correct way. Why do they tend to regard the other religions as foolishness or worse, blasphemy?"
The Master rubbed his jaw in thought. "Perhaps an old story my master once told me will help. It is a story about mountain climbers, road builders, horse trainers and wagon builders."
Chester smiled and barely shook his head as he looked down at his feet, but waited to see how the Master tied this to the subject he had brought up.
The Master looked up as if the details of the story were in the clouds. "Oh yes, they lived at the base of a mountain these people. An ancient legend claimed that they would find God when they made it to the top of the mountain and the reward would be peace and prosperity for everyone. The legend also said that a great temple dedicated to the God of love and peace was to be built by the followers of the way. All four religions taught that God was love and that God was responsible for peace, but they also taught that only they knew the way to God."
Chester watched an ant crawling on the porch but listened intently to the Master.
"There were four types of people that lived at the base of the mountain: mountain climbers, road builders, horse trainers and wagon builders, and each thought they were the correct way to get to the top of the mountain. The mountain climbers argued that they were the true way, for only by climbing the mountain could one ascend up to God. The road builders were strong in their faith. They had the ancient knowledge of road building, and they taught to all that would listen, that it took a road, that only they could build, to get the people to the top of the mountain to enjoy the eternal pleasures of being with God." Master was smiling as he remembered the story.
Chester got tired of watching the ant and commented, "I guess the horse trainers and wagon builders felt the same way?"
Master nodded, "Oh yes, the horse trainers recited the portion of the prophecy of a time when the top of the mountain would be brought low. They taught that only those that had a fast an well trained horse would be able to quickly ride to God and experience the love and peace of God."
"How did the wagon builders get so confident they were the one true way?" Chester waited.
The Master took a deep breath and said, "Well, the wagon makers told of the great prophet from God that came down from the mountain and taught that he was the way to God. He taught that with a wagon that truly represented his teachings, that all the people would someday reach the mountain. So the wagon makers taught that the other religions depended upon false teachings and that one had to get on their wagon to make it to God."
Chester laughed, "I've heard of a few churches that sound like that. Of course, they had to make the wagon and no one else, right?"
The Master held up a finger and said. "Of course, and the mountain climbers made fun of the others, for the road was never finished up the mountain, the mountain top never came down, and the prophet had died long ago but the wagons got bigger and more ornate yet no miracle ever lifted them to God. The road builders had contempt for the mountain climbers because all of the climbers fell trying to make it to God."
Chester joined in, "I guess the horse trainers were confident that only they were right because until the top of the mountain came down, no one would find God, and of course, they had the horses."
"Correct," Master sounded pleased, "Then one day a man was digging a well and found a tablet of stone. Carved on it was a temple surrounded by inscriptions in a language long forgotten and no longer spoken. All of the great scholars from the four ways to God, each claimed it was the ancient instructions, spoken of in the legend, explaining how to get to God. Each group was sure that once it was deciphered it would prove once and for all that they were right. The legend spoke of the great temple that would be built by the true way and only by the true way. They were all convinced that finding the stone was the long sought sign that the temple was to be built."
"Then what happened?" Chester was getting into the story.
"A terrible war broke out over the tablet and much blood was spilled over who would build the temple. The conflict raged for years but neither side could win. Finally peace was declared and a compromise was made." The Master paused for effect. "The people grew tired of the war, and the conflict, and they decided to join together to build the great temple spoken of in the prophecy of old."
Chester cocked his head and said, "Did they quit believing their way was right?"
The Master smiled. "Secretly they each felt that only they knew the true way, but in the spirit of compromise and peace they came together to build the temple. Quickly all of the artisans of the four ways to God started on the great work of building the temple. The carving of the temple was used as the overall design. The stone the carving was on was of a type only found up on the mountain itself. They decided only that type of stone would be worthy for the Temple of God."
"Well, did they build it?" Chester was showing his impatient side.
The Master held up a hand. Chester settled down. "The mountain climbers were skilled at finding the stones needed for the temple. The road builders built roads that spiraled up the mountain so workers could reach and quarry the stone. The wagon makers made strong wagons to haul the stone and the horse trainers taught the horses to pull the wagons. As the work on the temple continued, they had to go higher and higher up the mountain to find the right type of stone. The roads could be built only because the mountain climbers were able to find the best places to safely extend the road. As the road got higher and higher, it took fast horses to make the trips up and down the mountain in less than a day. Without wagons, no stone could be delivered to the bottom for the temple."
"So by working together they built the temple. Then what?" Chester was frowning again.
"As the temple neared completion the search for more stones of the right type took them to the top of the mountain. At the top was plenty of stone to finish the temple. Just as the ancient prophecy had stated, the top of the mountain was brought down and the way to the top was found."
"Was God on the mountain?" Chester scratched his head.
"The prophecy had always stated that they would find God when they made it to the top of the mountain and the reward would be peace and prosperity for everyone. God is a God of love and peace. They learned that to find the God of peace and love they had to first become a people who were peaceful and loving." The Master waited for Chester.
"Oh, so until people learn that the religions of today each have something to teach about the journey to God, they will be like the people living at the base of the mountain!" Chester beamed.
The Master stood up and said. "Exactly." Then the Master left Chester on the porch to think about what he had just taught him.
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That could be applicable to this world except that the God of this world has supplied us with an instruction book for His creation. Different religions not withstanding, if you are not following His instructions, you are wrong.
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And thus is your conditioning. You follow your "rules," and I'll follow what God inside me says to do. As long as you are right with self, you can't ever be "wrong." The bible was written 2000 years ago. Humanity has been around for 45,000 years. There were many books on God before the bible, and they worshipped God before the bible. Yet, that's the one you choose to believe because it's the most popular? So be it. It's not a wrong religion, because there is no wrong religion. They all say the same thing if you can get over your ego long enough to explore them, and that basic message is that God is within. You don't need a church, school, or bookstore to find him. He is a part of everything, including you. Read your bible, it tells you so. You ARE God.
I knew a lady once that said she wouldn't listen to anyone else's opinion about God, because she was raised to be christian, and she shouldn't question what was written. She was afraid that if she listened to any other viewpoint, it meant she was questioning. She did not wish to be persuaded by another viewpoint, so she just ignored them. I told her that all that meant was that her faith was never very strong to begin with. -
You are not wrong. And neither am I.
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Also, did you know that all of those bible stories you refer to were around much longer than the bible? In fact, there are ancient sumerian cuniform scripts that have all of the SAME stories, and they were written 3000 years before Christ. Noah's flood was accounted for centuries before the old testament was even conceived. Perhaps if you were a little more educated, you'd be a little more convincing.
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"Perhaps if you were a little more educated, you'd be a little more convincing."
Hahahaha, I assume you got your degree at Condescending University?
I don't often agree with mud, but it's awfully unfair to place him in an "uneducated" boat because you know a piece of information he's probably heard a number of times before. -
My God tells me to prove all things and hold fast to the truth, This I endevor to always do. The history of the Bible (though written later) goes back to 4,000 B.C.
Thank you too for considering me uneducated. My God says that He chooses the base to confuse the "wise." -
I do apologize for sounding condenscending. It was uncalled for and posted out of frustration. But I can't help but to see obedience without question more as slavery than enlightenment. Personally, I think it's perposterous to base an entire belief system on one book just because you're told to. There are so many enlightening things to learn, experience, and understand. You box yourself into one existence and then shut yourself out of possibility. It truly is slavery, and it saddens me. But your soul will see. I will no longer bother you. Just know that I get frustrated and angry because....I care.
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Enslaved out of fear is a more reasonable description than uneducated. I'm not being sarcastic this time, I swear. I see what you're saying.
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Fear of God as mentioned in the Bible is reverential awe. If I am a slave to God and Jesus then I consider myself in good company. I only wish I were a better slave.
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i dont see the point in getting trapped in the trappings of religion in the first place. they tend to be concrete and unchanging. I would rather be able to look at something and say "hey, this is wrong, here is the proof why" and not be "crucified" for it.
ya ya ya, J died for our sins but i really do think that some situations preconceived as sin is really just laws that old guys wrote down to make sure we did whatever they wanted to.
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There is no freedom without law.
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what is freedom without the ability to change?
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Man's way is freedom TO sin, God's way is freedom FROM sin. Define change.
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Freedom FROM choice.
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The freedom to stick with the choices you make. We all have to choose at some point.
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The freedom to stick to your choice of giving up choices.
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Exactly
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Okay, okay, just one point to consider (out of love):
What is conscience if not the voice of God?
It rings loud and clear from within.
God is within you; experiencing life right along side of you. God IS you. Did he not create OF himself all that is, all that was, and all that ever will be? Did not Jesus say, "Turn a stone, there is God, turn a leaf, there is God?"
Pesonally, I do not feel that God is to be put on some unobtainable pedastal of perfection, for he is far greater than the human comprehensibility of "perfection." Why do we insist on seperating God from his own creation? God IS his own creation. It is the very idea of seperation, I feel, that has seperated our identities, beliefs, our religions, and ultimately our peoples. Thus debate and argument are born. There is no "myself," only Self. HIS Self. And we are all It, screaming the same conscience in different languages (religions).
Debate is nothing more than the ego trying to prove itself, and I realized that is exactly what I was previously doing here. Instead, I choose to spread the word of God as the Christ soul did, explaining to seek within. Our souls are imbedded with the answers to life, but we are so blinded BY life that we forget how to look for them. Jesus was a teacher. Let us learn his lesson well, once and for all. -
Jesus condemned teachers who taught the wrong things. Whether you choose to accept it or not, there is a right and a wrong way to do things.
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If the result is positive, what's the difference?
And how does one truly know their way is "right?" Isn't that the argument of all religion? That THEIR way is right? -
And you have a very good way of tuning out what you choose not to see, because you keep avoiding the meat and skirting around the bible.
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The Bible, as the word of God, is my guide. Again, because you don't believe the Bible, we must agree to disagree.
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Again, you miss the point.
That's where you're mis-perception lies. I DO believe the bible. Full heartedly.
As you must know, the bible is merely a collection of stories taken from many scriptures found from across the world. The very definition of "bible" is simply a collection of stories. Obviously not all of the scriptures were even included in the bible; or the bible would actually be hundreds of books long. Furthermore, many more scriptures have been found and recovered AFTER the bible was put together. Do you think man was ever going to re-write the bible to include these "lost" scriptures? Of course not! That means re-evaluating religion, and it would be too controversial to do so because of closed-minded individuals such as yourself. Aren't you curious to know from where the stories derived? Don't you feel you are entitled to know the WHOLE truth before you claim it as such?
If the only answer you can give is "the bible says so," then you truly have no understanding of the bible itself, its origin, why it was compiled, and how it became so popular. Without this knowledge, how can you possibly expect to gain any sort of wisdom from it? Even scarier, WHY would you dedicate yourself to a religion you know so little about?
I am not asking you to change your religion. All I am asking is that you understand it.
P.S. Would it kill you to seek knowledge?
My point is this: If you only have a few pieces to the puzzle, how egocentrical (and human) to assume understanding of the entire picture, and thus unrighteous of you to judge my own understanding. -
I leave you with this link. If you don't even bother to read it in it's entirity (there is a LOT to learn from this site), then that shows me your are afraid of learning something that may make you question your own faith, in which case it was never very strong to begin with.
With much Love, Medusa
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
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This is what I believe to be the correct understanding of why the Bible is the only true word of God.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=1709.0.76.0
Your belief that the Bible is only a collection of stories shows your limited understanding of it. The willingness to follow the ways of men as opposed to the word of God is condemned throughout the Bible.
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For your edification, 3 definitions of gnosticism from Dictionary.com:
1. noun Roman Catholic Church. a group of ancient heresies, stressing escape from this world through the acquisition of esoteric knowledge.
2. n. The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.
3. noun
a religious orientation advocating gnosis as the way to release a person's spiritual element; considered heresy by Christian churches
The term gnosis has no correlation to Christianity or the word of God (Bible), other than being against it.
Also, Bible means a book of books especially of sacred texts, accepted as authoratative in its field.
(Note: By extension, any book considered an infallible or very reliable guide to some activity may be called a “bible.”)
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Jesus was gnostic. Read a little deeper. And yes, Jesus DID warn us of the imposing power of the churches. It's funny that the very religion that says, "in christ's name I pray," was built upon a man who said, "Do not pray to me, for I am not your father."
And personally, the Roman Catholic Church is the LAST place I'd be seeking wisdom from. Careful the footsteps you tread behind. Never has any organization been as powerful, sadistic, and self-righteous (not to mention sexually....unstable to say the least). And this is a religion that says you are not good enough to pray to god yourself, that you must ask another mortal (just as yourself) to pray to god FOR you. Not to mention the temples are draped lavishly in golden idols and images of things that are in heaven...All that wealth and still hungry children in the world....Exactly WHERE are my tithings going??? Oh yeah....that new cadillac the priest the was driving....and to the vatican, of course, because after all, they are more worthy of your wealth than the meek that will inherit the earth.
P.S. I didn't say the biblical stories weren't true. I said they are older than the bible gives them credit for. -
P.S. Of course christians are going to denounce gnostics...gnostics (such as Jesus) threatened the power of the churches.
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Adding your reply:
matronmedusa
Oct 29 9:01 AM 2007
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