-
-
Wow do you really feel it necessary for homosexuals or anyone for that matter to take the law into their own hands or are you encouraging more people to posess fire arms simply for defense purposes
-
-
A pink pistol would be pretty cool btw
-
-
Defencive purposes. lol I know our gun control laws are less strict than yours but local law inforcement still take a dim view of "hunting".
-
Forgive my dumbness but what do you mean "hunting"?
-
we should have the right to defend ourselves.
-
Im incredibly confused as to where this is going....
-
i was being a little silly.
-
lol alrighty then silly on my friend
-
not in the topic just in my responce to apple.
-
I am against the idea of owning guns. I don't see the need and think it is dangerous. Out of all the countless articles you read every day of someone being shot, I can't even recall an instance of "Civilian saves day with legal gun!". I don't see the need.
However I am technically against banning guns. There's not much of a legitimate argument against owning them either. I would just prefer a well rounded security system and background checks before someone can get one. -
the gov. has proven time and time again that it is unable to protect it's citizens. come on all you have to do is open the paper.
-
but how many fewer deaths would be written on if you didnt have a gun for a burglar to wrestle out of your hands and shoot you with?
-
gimme three steps mister
oh please! have you actually heard of that happening!
here i have the gun in my hand finger on the trigger and some yahoo is going to try and take it from me? -
When was the last tragic shooting in a school in the UK?
Case closed if you ask me. -
that's not what he's asking about. guns are inanimate objects they can be used for evil if the user is evil. no different than a hammer, rock or a bread knife. the person using the bread knife is the problem.
-
-
No, I think Apple still has a point. You still need registration for a gun. You don't need registration for a knife. Because even though they're both inanimate, the capacity for harm with a gun is far greater. Some kid snaps and brings a knife to school, he could easily be overpowered with minimal to no casualties. A couple of guns and there are dozens of deaths. UK gun restrictions could coincide with their lack of school shootings.
-
-
if a kid brings a gun or knife to school that is itself an illegal act. look i'm not a 2nd amendment wacko who wants to drive a tank as my family car. i just want to be able to protect my self. i don't need the gov. to rap me in bubble rap. i was a frickin' marine for Pete's sake i hit what i aim at and i don't bring weapons of any sort to the high school. all this stuff is covered in a basic fire arms safety course. gun laws are the only laws that punish people before a crime is committed. i simply thought it might be nice if instead of waiting for the gov. to become enlightened enough to pass a hate crime law that doesn't immediately turn me into a victim and every heterosexual into a object of fear.
-
-
I'm not saying a knife is a better legal or moral act. I'm not saying knives are not dangerous. I'm saying guns can be much more dangerous much easier.
The insane man behind the Virginia Tech shooting got his guns legally.
In 1996 Australia had one of the worst killings sprees of it's time where over 30 people were killed and 30 more wounded from a single man with a gun. Immediately after the Australian government unified in heavier gun control, and in general their gun related deaths and incidents have decreased. It should be noted that many of these gun laws, and many proposed here in the US, were restrictions on automatic, semi-automatic, self-loading rifles and shotguns, and pump action shotguns. You have no need for these. You are not going to have 40 men invade your home with intent to kill.
I respect that you're a Marine and have a keen understanding of gun safety and perfected aim. My little brother is a Marine. I'd trust him with a gun. I'd trust many of my friends with guns. I'd trust myself with a gun. But this does inspire me to protect the gun laws that allowed the VA Tech shooter access to his guns. -
-
"It should be noted that many of these gun laws, and many proposed here in the US, were restrictions on automatic, semi-automatic, self-loading rifles and shotguns, and pump action shotguns. You have no need for these. You are not going to have 40 men invade your home with intent to kill."
Good point.
-
-
-
Knives are just as bad as guns. Even around here in my itty bitty town we have had guns and bomb threats on the school. There was just recently a situation where a kid had to be wrestled down by many people with a knife in his hand and other crazy crap in his bag. I personally was informed that I was on a hit list pretty far up the list so its a weird spot to be in.
As much as I believe guns themselves arent the problem its the person behind them I feel like something should change some. There so many crimes that a horrific that dont include guns but in reality with enough force behind something...anything can be a weapon to kill. -
-
Yes, now imagine if that psycho has a gun instead of a knife. You can get within arms reach of a threatening person with a knife. You can manage to grab their wrist, and especially if you have people help you, take the weapon from them.
A gun pointed at you and you're too far away, all you can do is hope they're not going to shoot you.
-
-
wow I am older than most on this site, even so we never had this crap at school. Mud I agree more and more with your prophecy everyday. In the news this week there has been a town in Wales where 17 teenagers have recently hung themselves. Not all at the same time but close enough for it to be very bizarre.
It is enough to bring you to tears to see the world disintigrating like this. Praise God for faith being the substance for things hoped and the evidence of things not seen. End times bring it on because Im gettin tired of the enemy getting his stinky mitts on innocent people. Jesus reigns victorious Amen! -
-
I think pursuing a book covering the history of any time period will make you realize we've always been crappy people, with lots of suicides, homicides, genocides--all the bade cides basically.
-
-
Yep history repeats its self. Good job we have salvation hey or we'd be well stuffed.
-
-
apple, you are becoming more and more fundilmentalist every month i've noticed.
actually that is not as bizarre as you think it is. when one person hangs themselves, it encourages other people to do the same (usually with car crashes but can lead to the same kind of suicide (in this case hanging)). so 17 may be high, but they are probably connected that way.
now isnt it interesting? with the media these days, such things are broadcasted into everyones homes every night. is it really a change or are we just more aware than we ever were? -
what is wrong with guns is that they are easy to use, peoples and peoples first defense. BUT most people dont know now to use a gun properly. yes, bob, you might, but i dont. give me a bow and arrow and i could shoot a bugger with a gun but give me a gun, i wouldnt have a clue.
yes, a sock and pennies would be deadly, but a sock, at max is a foot long. a persons arms may be 3 feet long, which only gives you a 4 foot range. a gun gives you much more.
in the instance in a robbery or a mugging, a gun would be more of a danger or a hinderance. as a marine, do you not have training in which you can use you hands to disarm someone?
what we need is a mandatory self defense class in schools, not guns in homes.
-
-
Theres been this game going around for kids at least here anyway where they try to choke themselves. They wrap whatever around their necks till they pass out and most "play" by themselves so they end up not getting it off of them in time.
-
-
wow God help the kids of the next generation.
-
-
give me two dollars in pennies and a tube sock and i will make you a wonderful mace that will kill your enemies just as dead as a shotgun and it's quieter with no need to reload.
-
-
Good idea bob we can post it on here and kids can go give it a go for themselves. wayhey! Cheap deadly and legal excellent! ooo sounds like guns in the US. Except guns are more than likely going to work and are slightly more "gansta" than a sock.
-
-
I think a point that needs to be made here is that bad things and killing sprees can happen no matter the weapon. Guns, knives, a fork, a pencil, a flaming baton...lol... No matter what laws there are people are always going to kill other people. If not by guns then by something else.
-
-
I dunno, steph. A serial killer is dangerous with just about any weapons. But going on a single killing spree that terrorizes and controls a massive area like a college campus or a tourist attraction? With a knife or a tube sock full of coins? You'd hurt and possibly kill a few people, but the ability to run away and to apprehend the assailant are much higher if he doesn't have an automatic rifle in one hand and a self loading shotgun in the other.
-
-
True but Virginia Tech and mall shootings aside. There was the Tylenol capsule killing thing back in the day. Just before my time I think. There were no guns involved just Tylenol and killer powder...I cant remember exactly what it was. Even if the laws were tougher it doesnt mean that they wouldnt find a way to get it anyway. Maybe I have just lost hope in my countrys ability to maintain rules lol.
-
-
I don't mean to be picking this argument apart Steph, but I still a large difference. You think you remember something about some guy using Tylenol and "killing powder"? While I'm sure this was an actual devastating incident with an actual psycho--it's still a single incident that you can't even remember accurately it happened so long ago.
Yes, restricting guns won't stop all deaths. They won't stop all psychopaths from finding a way of killing people. They won't even stop all shooting sprees. But they will prevent many. "Oh, I'm sure some guy some day will figure out a way to kill a lot of people without a gun." does not inspire me to say "Ah, yeah that's true, I guess VA Tech couldn't have been prevented. No more gun policies at all!!" -
-
lol. I cant remember it because if I was alive I was wee and I only know about it from tv and books. It was rat poison or something. They took out the medicine and inserted the poison then restocked.
I get the difference I was just saying that guns arent the only mass murdering mechanism out there. The only way to prevent stuff like that is a psych evaluation on everyone who wants a gun. If youve got a specific idea lets hear it because I cant possibly think of anything that would remotely work.
-
-
-
-
-
Funny and true bob, but my point remains. You can swing around seriously injure or kill over half a dozen people in a crowded area. It's hard to get close to someone as it would almost double as a barrier to your body. But people could easily run away and have a decent chance of ducking under the swings once they notice you're attacking. You are at the mercy of a person pointing a gun in a room.
-
so let's pass the strictest gun laws in the world.
the cops have been sent out and every gun that they know about is gone. the penalty for possession of a gun is life in prison. weydon is president all is well. the whole country breaths a collective sigh of relief that all the evil doers no longer have guns. oh wait the evil doers still have their guns because those are the ones that weren't registered. more come in to the country every day because you created a black market. this
black market i assume will be at least as effective as the one for drugs that Nixon created. it will most likely use the same infrastructure that drugs do now.
do you see any other outcome for a total gun ban?
the intent of my post was not to advocate unregistered guns nor do i wish everyone to be able to carry a concealed howitzer.
the only thing i was advocating was responsible gun ownership by gay people.
-
-
Responsible ownership for gay people or by gay people?
Gay people arent the only people who need defending. -
-
true
-
-
-
When I copy and paste my positions on gun control, do you want me to lend you hand and just copy and paste your unconnected reply about a crazed dictatorship?
-
i see that as the only outcome of a total gun ban.
-
I don't know what I did to imply I'm for a total gun ban. Perhaps it was "However I am technically against banning guns. There's not much of a legitimate argument against owning them either. I would just prefer a well rounded security system and background checks before someone can get one."
Or maybe "It should be noted that many of these gun laws, and many proposed here in the US, were restrictions on automatic, semi-automatic, self-loading rifles and shotguns, and pump action shotguns. You have no need for these. You are not going to have 40 men invade your home with intent to kill."
I want a complete ban on those types of guns as they are unnecessary in hunting and hypothetical defense. They may be very cool to gun lovers, but the only use they serve is tactically devastating massive amounts of unarmed, innocent people.
I also want stricter and better gun registration policies. Any system that allowed the VA Tech shooter to get his guns is a flawed system. I don't care how much of a hassle it becomes for you. If you have to wait even longer for a defensive gun that you're NEVER going to use anyway--well, I will give you my sincerest boo-hoos. Dangerous, psychotic people are able to get guns way to easily, and the laws need to be more effective. -
MY STANCE
in my opinion you have three options when dealing with the 2nd amendment. you can either go for a total ban, access with reasonable restrictions or try to pass restrictions peace meal.
total ban: in my opinion this option can't work.
it fails to take in to account the fact that not all people will follow the law. by doing this you do two things. 1. set up the need for a black market. 2. take all guns out of the hands of the people willing to follow the law.
pass restrictions: this option too is doomed to fail for the same reason. not to mention it is being carried out now as a prelude to a total ban.
access with reasonable restrictions: reasonable waiting periods, registration, banning FULLY automatic rifles, hand guns and shotguns and a total ban on gun ownership by convicted violent felons are all reasonable measures. semi automatic rifles and shot guns are used for hunting and should not be banned. likewise banning semi automatic hand guns stops competitions.
the problem we have now is that all sides see this issue as a political football. this is what i thought you were doing by bringing up VT.
i still don't see how you prevent a VT. because there will always be a suplie of illegal weapons out there weather it's an AK47 or my little mace.
one other thing stricter gun registration solves nothing accept it takes us one step further down the road to a total ban. what we should have is better record searches and uniform non ideology based sane standards countrywide. -
"2. take all guns out of the hands of the people willing to follow the law."
Again, I rarely--if ever--see "Brave citizen with gun stops massacre!" in the news.
"
pass restrictions: this option too is doomed to fail for the same reason. not to mention it is being carried out now as a prelude to a total ban."
The same reason as it having wild success is Australia and the UK and Canada? Or the same reason as not having these restrictions allowed the VA Tech shooter to legally obtain his bloodbath tools--which are BASICALLY the same as a tube sock full of pennies or any household object with significant weight. Because then instead of being the VA Tech shooter, he would've been the VA Tech Table Leg Swinger, with an equal body count and inability to be apprehended with ease.
"semi automatic rifles and shot guns are used for hunting and should not be banned. likewise banning semi automatic hand guns stops competitions."
Rifles and shotguns was not proposed in the ban, just pump action and self-reloading. These and semi-automatic are not extremely helpful in hunting. If you miss, you're a bad shot and the deer runs away. Too bad. I know you'd like to shoot wildly in order to finally nail it, but you might have to sacrifice this God Given Liberty to hunt with a trigger happy frenzy in order to regulate killing sprees. Sorry.
Canadian semi and auto rifles have a 5 round magazine limit. I'm sure that's fair for whatever "essential" hunting needs you have. If you can't make it in 5 rapid rounds, get a new hobby.
"i still don't see how you prevent a VT. because there will always be a suplie of illegal weapons out there"
But they weren't illegal. They were legal. Which implies the legal system is flawed. A child may be able to choke on any number of objects or potentially poisonous chemicals--so why bother with these damn childproof medicine bottles!! Sure, we may stop ONE method of viable death, but the kid could still accidentally kill himself on something else anyway. Who cares how many lives we can easily save when there's still the capacity for harm elsewhere sometimes. I propose a ban on these unconstitutional nuisances.
"weather it's an AK47 or my little mace."
Ok, you seriously either need to stop callously pretending there's no difference between dangerous close range objects and guns of any type, or have a duel me with your socks versus my guns. It's not only a terrible point, it's insulting to victims. If you see no difference between the threat of a gun and "any number of inanimate objects!!!" quit your harping about how you need a gun to protect yourself. Just arm yourself with all the tubesocks you want. It's the same right? They're both dangerous right? They both basically support the same threat, right? The VA Tech massacre of so many young kids could've been caused with either, RIGHT? So just use that to protect yourself, because it's the SAME amount of harm that could be caused to your potential attackers (that don't, and will likely never, exist).
"one other thing stricter gun registration solves nothing accept it takes us one step further down the road to a total ban. what we should have is better record searches and uniform non ideology based sane standards countrywide."
I believe the VA Tech shooter had a clean record. Checking someone's background isn't enough. You need a psychiatric examination to become a cop (at least in NY) for good reason. You're supposed to fairly protect people, and are given a firearm to do so. That is the entire basis of your "need" for a gun. Fair protection with a firearm. Psychiatric examinations should be given to anyone that wants a firearm. -
And another thing
It's not a mace! A mace is the solid club, usually with a heavy, spikey part on the end. A FLAIL is the one that swings around on a chain. -
It appears you were right about the flail.
"I believe the VA Tech shooter had a clean record. Checking someone's background isn't enough. You need a psychiatric examination to become a cop (at least in NY) for good reason. You're supposed to fairly protect people, and are given a firearm to do so. That is the entire basis of your "need" for a gun. Fair protection with a firearm. Psychiatric examinations should be given to anyone that wants a firearm."
You say you don't want a total ban but what you have proposed is the next best thing. I love it a psychiatric examination to exercise a Constitutional rite. So let me get this straight I've got to prove that i'm sane before I'm allowed to protect my self!
"Ok, you seriously either need to stop callously pretending there's no difference between dangerous close range objects and guns of any type, or have a duel me with your socks versus my guns. It's not only a terrible point, it's insulting to victims."
Now I'm insulting the victims of VT. If you done tring to portray me as an insensitive gun toteing natzi can we get back to the issue? The point of the FLAIL arguement was to underscore how useless a gun ban is. OH I RELIZE YOU DON'T WANT A BAN. Just to place unresonable hurdles on gun ownership. Wich accomplishes the same thing.
Oh silly me when I posted this topic I thought we could have a resonable discussion. Evidently not.
Why protect myself when I can have the nanny state do it for me!
-
-
"You say you don't want a total ban but what you have proposed is the next best thing. I love it a psychiatric examination to exercise a Constitutional rite. So let me get this straight I've got to prove that i'm sane before I'm allowed to protect my self!"
I assume the Constitutional right you are referring to is "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."? Well, while I'm sure your Militia is quite formidable and completely useful, we should also remember that "arms" at that point were single-shot muskets and pistols. Perhaps had they known of the threatening evolution they would be more wary of such things. A nuclear weapon is also considered arms. Do you have a right to that? Would it be unconstitutional to stop a citizen from housing nuclear weapons?
"Now I'm insulting the victims of VT. If you done tring to portray me as an insensitive gun toteing natzi can we get back to the issue? The point of the FLAIL arguement was to underscore how useless a gun ban is."
And if you're done playing the victim, respond to one of my points. For instance: how in the world would The VT Tubesock Full of Pennies Swinger be at all similar to someone with automatic weapons? If, in your poorly constructed argument, a homemade flail is just as dangerous as a gun anyway, why can't you just use those instead of guns?
"Oh silly me when I posted this topic I thought we could have a resonable discussion. Evidently not."
No, reasonable discussions respond to all presented points and statistics. You evidently don't care about the success rates of gun regulations of places like Canada--a place with lots of hunting.
You would be better off just saying "From my cold dead hands." over and over.
-
-
Hate to get in the middle of this guys but the VA tech shooter was told to get psychological help by the school. He had written some pretty awful stories for his classes and Im almost postive he was stalking some girls.
-
-
Better give him some guns.
-
Latest •
Categories •
Groups •
Forums
Forums /
Controversial /
| |
|
|
ForumsSign up for FREEA free allpoetry.com account is required to comment and participate. It's fast and free! 
Already a member?Advertising |
|
Logout
Help
Terms of Use
Contact Us
Content Complaint
Our other sites: Poetry, Critical Poetry, Old Poetry, Stories, Quotations. © Social Design | |
Adding your reply:
bob2314
Feb 16 7:27 PM 2008
Reply