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"The most important Christian concept is not God, it is sin, which is the means by which the fear of God is created. One is converted or reconverted to religion every time one acts out of awareness of sin."
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most possibly. Your point being? What about de-conversion due to the fear of religion?
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it's not a point, it's a topic^^ so discuss!
mmm... apostasis only happens out of fear in special circumstances, and in those cases it is most often lip service i think. im not sure, but i guess people depart god when their sin is converted into something else, power for example, or crowd membership. -
Sin is the transgression of God's law. God's law is like a mirror. It shows you where you are spotted. You don't destroy the mirror because you're tainted, do you? Fear (reverence) of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. God cannot abide sin. He can't live with it. Sin seperates us from God.
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God's law is only for those who accept it, so instead of saying 'us' it would be more correct to say 'believers', and 'knowledge' as 'knowledge of God's law'. also, 'spot' is a very vague idea, it amounts to a different way of saying 'sin'.
i guess you are personally Christian? it is a very common mistake not to separate your beliefs from the beliefs of others, and i think nonbelievers will find the assumption grating... -
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Truth is absolute. No matter what the truth. I have proven to myself the existence God and He is the Christian God. He is the creator of all there is, so anything else is less that He is. If you have another belief, I would like to hear your proof. I have researched most of the worlds religions and most worship the creation instead of the creator. The rest have either twisted the doctrines of the one true God or made their own gods. If one is sure in their beliefs, it stands to reason it would be seperate from other beliefs. I don't believe in santa clause and that doesn't grate on me. It does make me sad that generations of people have foisted it upon their children. "Making the commandments of God of no effect by keeping the traditions of men."
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if truth is absolute, none of us are privy to it, as that kind of truth is not provable outside of total knowledge. to say you have proven something to yourself is only to say you have accepted it, since it is a proof you cannot necessarily use to reject a negative belief that others may hold.
all you are saying is "believe me!" and the only real answer to that is "no". each person accepts in their own style, or doesnt. good christians evangelise, but you first have to listen with an open heart before you can tell in a way to open others' hearts. -
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"good christians evangelise"
No they don't, at least not Christians that understand. God calls whom he will.
Truth is truth and you can know it if you want to. Truth is truth whether you are aware of it or not, and if aware, whether you believe it or not. Truth itself rejects untruths. If I am aware of any truths they are not my truths unless I accept them, but whether I do or not, the truth is still the truth. Unless you have tested and proven the truth of anything to yourself, you can't know it. Untruth cannot stand up to the light of truth.
The truths I believe are proveable and proven. And I stand behind them in any disagreement with them. Never, ever believe me, rather, believe the truth.
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good christians should evangelise, because many people have not heard the word. i live in a country where about 1% of the population are christian. if the bible were a self-evident truth then this would not sustain itself over the long term. in order to increase coverage of the religion, people need to be brought into the fold. evangelism is to make people hear the voice of the Christian God.
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The Bible says tha God does the calling and He is not calling very many right now. Eventually, everyone will have the opportunity, but not yet.
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The Bible says that God does the calling and He is not calling everyone just yet. Everyone will have the opportuity at the right time.
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Those of God must do God's will. Is there no passage which asks followers to spread His Word?
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At the time of the apostles, Jesus sent them out to preach the gospel (the kingdom of God). Since then the gospel had not been preached until this time, 1900 years later.
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If only 'the gospel' were to have been preached since then, Christianity would not have spread far. What do missionaries do?
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What has been preached has been a gospel "about" Jesus, not the gospel "of" Jesus, which is the coming kingdom of God. Jesus said that before He returned again, Elijah (or a type of Elijah) would come and restore all things. That did not happen until the latter half of the 20th century.
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Both these 'gospels' provide the same system of spiritual logic, so as far as the physical population of Christians is concerned they both do the same thing: multiply believers. Do you not think that the preaching of a 'gospel about Jesus', rather than 'the gospel of Jesus', is doing the work of God?
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Emphatically, no. Coincidently, the church I belong to has a television show called The Key Of David. This weeks installment seem to address this issue (I haven't seen it yet, but will now).
You can watch it here: http://www.keyofdavid.com/Default.asp?siteMapId=ViewProgram&Id=313 -
Personally, I'm trying to find out what you think now, not find out 'the Truth', so I'm not going to take outside info into account. If the only Godly social act is 'the gospel of Jesus', which apparently has not been preached since 100AD, then don't you think that God is indifferent to the spread of Christianity?
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Are you implying that what I "think" I know now and the "truth" are different issues? Everything that God does and is doing is all for us. Far from being indifferent, He is deeply involved in all we do. God has a plan. And He does nothing without first revealing it. He is not and has not been "calling" mankind in general. He is calling out His elect to become the bride of Christ (His church), whom are called to do His work on earth in this end time. That work in this time is the final warning prior to the great tribulation.
"I'm not going to take outside info into account"
We must all be taught. It is up to us to determine if what we are learning is correct (prove all things). I am reminded of the account in Acts where the eunuch was reading scripture and couldn't understand until the apostle explained it to him.
I submit the following link that more directly relates to the gospel question. It is a short read and completely taken from the bible.
http://www.cogneo.org/literature/hwa/booklets/gospel.pdf -
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to completely move off the topic at hand.
to misquote someone, the truth never resides in what we know. could you handle such a world? to live like a eunuch who lacks his most important part: the ability to interpret God in everything? there are people who cannot 'see' faces, because of a neurological disorder. could you handle yourself, if the day ever came you couldn't 'see' God?
even if you prove something to yourself, you must always live with the spectre of contradiction behind you. it is the panic of having been contradicted which spurs people to action, and moves also everything in the world.
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There has been sin from the beginning of time..if that is what you would like to " label " it. Or either...doing what is against what you should actually do. Lets face it..All of us know between right and wrong. Each of us at some point have chosen wrong instead of right. Do we learn from the wrong that we pick ? IF not we keep redoing the mistakes until we learn. Is doing wrong really a sin ? Or is it more or less growing in life as we go along?
Without wrong...we would never be able to learn how to do right.
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Any action should be able to be compared to the ten commandments to determine if it is sin or not.
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Oral sex as well as anal sex is defined as sodomy. Sodomy, in or out of marriage, is sin.
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Lets start with the definition of sodomy.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
1. anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2. copulation with a member of the same sex.
3. BESTIALITY (def. 4).
The dictionary does not distinguish whether the acts are between married and unmarried. And I have not found where God, in the Bible, makes a distinction either. Nor do I believe that the definition has changed from that time to this. As you are obviously well versed in the Bible, I am sure that you are aware of God’s thoughts on the inhabitants of Sodom (Sodomites). He called them an abomination and destroyed them. There are Bible references to homosexuality that are condemned as well as the condemnations against going after strange flesh. If you need me to, I can dig out these references.
Don’t get me wrong. Before I knew what was right and wrong, I liked a BJ as much as anyone. But now that the truth is known, it is no longer an option. Ultimately, the word sodomy derives from the city of Sodom, whose occupants, obviously gleefully, indulged in the defined actions. They were all destroyed. And why was the Old Testament written?
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
It was written as examples for us.
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Neither does the Bible specifically say to not have sex with babies, so that must be okay with you too. I think I have shown the intent that sodomy (anal and oral sex between any two or more people) is immoral and sinful. If you gotta do it, then you gotta do it, but don't try to rationalize that it is okay with God. It isn't.
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I made my point. No grasping.
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As previously stated, the intent is clearly shown. I think this line has been drawn. Next subject!
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I thought I was being very civil, sorry if I offended you. I just think that we are at an impasse on this subject. You understand where I'm coming from and I understand where you are coming from. Neither one of us is going to change in the immediate future.
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We don't have to agree to love one another.
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God is Sin
because sin is the obsession that creates god. It isn't real. -
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No God is creator of everthing around you even your mind
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If you say so.
(does this mean you are prepared to define god?)
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sin is something made up to control the masses
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"sin is something made up to control the masses"
I can see how well that is working.
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think about it. society was falling into depravity so they created sin to scare people into behaving in a way they saw proper. i dont blame them, it was a good idea. only nowadays people arent as religious so it doesnt really work anymore.
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The Bible says that sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. God is not a respecter of persons but He is a respecter of righteousness. He judges all people by the same law.
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so god doesnt give a damn about me unless im "righteous"? no, righteous is just another word made up by them to describe people that act how they like
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Righteous means lawful. A righteous person is one who keeps God's law. God cares about all His children. What determines how He views you is you. He doesn't change. He can only respond to you based on your response to Him.
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Adding your reply:
Dec 19 2:06 AM 2006
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