is there any arguement other than "the bible says so"?
is there any LOGICAL arguement against them?
let me cover one of the more "popular" arguements right off the bat so we dont have to deal with it later: being gay is unnatural-----
"some animals are actually homosexual. one example is penguins. silo and his partner live in a zoo some where in the states only swim, mate and other such things with each other. look it up on the net, you will find it.
oh, and at wikipedia there is a whole list of animals that include dogs, cats, dolphins, bison, and sheep" - Kazrith
"So many cases of homosexuality involving different species of animals have been recorded. You would be surprised. I guess you have to research your stuff before making assumptions. If the world were constituted of 100 humans, 10 would be gay. Did you know that? Probably not." - Axelle Black
"when given the choice 8% of male rams consistantly mount other male rams, often engaging in intercourse." - ennoia
--------------------------------------------- but let get even more specific... why is gay MARRIAGE wrong... even IF (and thats a big IF) being gay is wrong, why shouldn't we let them marry? their not forcing anyone to be gay.... and not letting them marry is not going to make them any less gay...
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10 reasons why gay marriage is "wrong"41% Voted for by Sint, aztec ghost, thefix, Wisteria, Musical Anomaly. (46 total)
10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is "Wrong"
1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans
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since so many of you seem to think that this is a serious attack on homosexuality, i ask you to read it again....
it is sarcasm...
i fully support gay marriage...
i am bisexual...
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Well9% Voted for by joshuada, ScarletMatriarch, ElisaRose, Your mothers a cow, NeedsLNow. (10 total)
Well instead of me proving that being gay is wrong, why don't you prove how being gay is right?
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I just couldn't've said that better myself -
the basis of proving that it is not wrong has nothing to do with weather it is right or not but in the simple fact that it is not wrong for nothing is wholly wrong or wholly right.
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that's silly
we don't NEED to prove that being gay is right, anymore that we need to prove that it is right (ie not wrong) to be black, or a woman, or to have one eye green and one blue, or to have a hair on your lip, or to have one leg slightly shorter than the other. how can you prove they are 'right'? they just are. the same as being gay. we all should be treated equally, unless someone can tell us why not. you seem to be trying to avoid this task. if you can't tell us why you have something against gay's, please keep it very much to yourself. -
Foxy
I was gonna say the exact same thing/similar words -
retard alert
But we can prove that being black is right because you are born black. There is no empiracle evidence suggesting that people are born gay. -
yes you are...
there is evidence, your just too much of a thick-headed moron to accept it... your too caught up being a self rightous ass-wipe to realize that homosexuals are just as human as you are, and they deserve the same rights as you do... i dont see how you can talk down to anyone like that for something they cant help... i would try to look at things from your point of view... but i fear i'm not flexable enough to stick my head THAT far up my ass... -
Hey, Crazyhead, don't be hypocritical. Ok, no offense to footballfan, I'm just using you as an example. Ok Crazyhead, what if footballfan was born a 'thick-headed moron', would it be ok for you to 'talk down' to him? There is evidence that people are born with lesser intelligence than you. Also, where is this 'evidence' you speak of, some scientifical fact? (Footballfan I'm really not criticizing you)
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i agree with footballfan385
People who want to change the status quo must prove to the rest of us why we should. We don't have to prove to you why we shouldn't. And since you haven't given any evidence supporting your position on this issue i'll assume that you yourself are a "thick-headed moron". And being gay is a choice, not a condition. Unless you can prove otherwise... -
to looking4realtruth
can u prove that being gay is a choice? i can prove otherwise, take into consideration the many suicides among gay teens who cant handle being gay, in iraq it is punishable by death to be openly gay and yet there are gay people in iraq (two gay teens were hung there just for kissing eachother), gays aren't allowed in the millitary, in certain states it is ok to kick people out of apartments or fire them from their jobs for being gay. in other places it is illegal for gay couples to adopt children. also there are many anti gay religious conservatives spewing hate speech to gays. AND if you go to any school (high school, middle school and even elementary school) you will often hear people (mostly boys) making homophobic comments such as "thats so gay", and "dude ur such a fag". so given all of this hardship gays have to go through why would anyone choose to be gay? the fact is that no-one chooses to be gay. it just happens for reasons that there is no clear cut proof but the evidence is piling up that it is either genetic or inborn (hormones and fetuses). -
Ah. But here is where everyone is at a stand-still. There is NO proof whatsoever that can really surpport either side fully. While, yes, there is nothing definate to prove that homosexality is part of your genotype, there is also no proof to surpport the fact that it is s choice. But. You said it was the choice that made it wrong? Well. A psychopath is born a psychopath, born a person who could kill. Does THAT make it right? No. And. If one choices to save a child.. The ability to choose, doesn't make it a choice. So. Really. If someone is born gay or chooses to do it, doesn't make it right nor wrong. But. Maybe that is just me.
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if you say that there is still a possibility that someone chooses to be gay, then using that logic u could say someone chooses to be straight or bi. if you are straight, did you choose your sexuality, cause if you did i would like to hear your story. so if you didn't choose your sexuality what makes you think someone else did. also, you can't compare homo to murder because homo's and hetero's start families and relationships together and create love, while murderers do just the opposite
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It is what they want, thus it is right
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I do not wish to enter gay marriage debate, but I would say that many people here had many good arguments. Why should we declare homosexuality as moral or immoral ? Why do we have to label it at all ? It does not have to be neither moral nor immoral. And one more thing : I am 100% straight, but I know how painful love is and I feel that if I deny a gay a right to his owwn happiness I am trampling allover myself. I love someone more than I can describe and I believe in romantic love. I am nor being PC. I say exactly what I feel. Any comments ?
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TO PROOVE GAY MARRAGE IS RIGHT
GAY MARRAGE IS NEATHER RIGHT OR WRONG IT SIMPLY SHOULD BE MARRAGE IS A RELIGUS INSTUTION THAT THE GOV. DECIDED TO COPT 100 YEARS AGO TO KEEP BLACKS AND WHITES FROM MARRING AND ALSO TO KEEP THOSE MORMANS UNDER CONTROL THIS CONTRY WAS FOUNDED ON A DIVISION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE SO NOT ONLY SHOULD THE STATE REFUSE TO MARRIE GAY PEOPLE IT SHOULD NULLIFY ALL STATE DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIPS FOR THE LAST 100 YEARS -
Doesn't the world suffer enough without people denying other people's love for one another?
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Prove to me that Straight is right...
And I'll prove that gay is right! -
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Strait is right because without, there would be no children in which gay couples could arise from.
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Really?
We're using procreation as the only reason for love and relationships to exist?
Infertile people, elderly people, and people who choose not to have kids are all wrong... and on top of that we only have sex and realtionships so we can breed!
Ha -
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Ha? lol
Well, because I haven't told yoj everything I believe, It would be possible for you to assume that. To me, sex is an important part of a much stronger love relationship. Sex is the result of true love. And through that, children are born like how God told us to procreate. And you just told me to say why strait was RIGHT. not why being infertile is wrong. An elderly person, infertile person don't have a choice, so it cannot be considered sin. Although infertility is probably alterable if you know why you are, and find ways to change it through holistic living. But people choosing not to have children (Assuming they have the resources to), that would be considered wrong because God told us to. And if you believe in evolution. Lack of more people would slow down the rate of evolution, and thus hurt the entire human population. (I don't believe in evolution though)
Now the argument you started was prove that heterosexuality was right. And I said it. Then you bring up a new topic, please show consistency, and follow your end of the bargain.
If you didn't understand I will tell you.
If by any chance that homosexuality was a good thing, that means that there would have to be heterosexual relations in order for homosexuality to arise in a population. Which means that heterosexuality would HAVE to be correct.
On the other hand, if homosexuality is wrong, then the basis of this argument would have to change, and heterosexuality's source of being correct would have to be changed to something else. How about, without heterosexuality, no animals that were not intelligent enough to use artificial insemination would be able to reproduce. And effect of that would be all animals on the face of the earth (Including sex changing animals because if they only have sex (including egg laying) with an animal of the same gender, then it would be impossible for them to get the gametes together. (non animal groups would survive). Hermaphrodites would also not have heterosexual sex because hermaphrodites mate with the male organ to the female organ. Which would be considered heterosexuality. The only animals that would survive would be the animals that reproduce without mating. Liek some forms of lizards. But with the lack of resources from all the other animals dyeing, then it would be impossible for them to live. Plants would be able to live, but due to the lack of animals, the ecology would be screwed up, and plants would soon die out. Leaving only single celled organisms. which only reproduce by duplicating. But many single celled organisms must survive inside a host. And with many hosts gone, they would die out. Leaving only the eukaryotes that could survive without help. But then toxins would eventually build up, and all resources would be used up. Killing the rest of the eukaryotes.
And about what you said. After much consideration, I do believe you jumped the gun. How do you pull "procreation as the only reason for love and relationship to exist" I said that without heterosexuality that homosexuality is impossible (In the human race) My point was strait is good, and by strait people, gay people have the possibility of being born. I still believe that love can exist without sex. But without sex, there is a huge part of a relationship that is gone, and there would be no children. -
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sure. you are right, there is no homosexuality without heterosexuality. but there would be now downs syndrome or autism. if you want to really get down to it, heterosexuality is the root of all the problems we humans face. Course it would be stupid to blame all our problems on procreation. then it would also be stupid to blame homosexuals for being born the way they are (yes i know you dont think it is). I also believe that it is pointless to judge whose love is greater on the bases of the of chance end results of sex?
yes you may not like to think of that kind of sex, or you might think that since a god said its wrong that it is wrong. there are other beliefs and, fortunately not everyone has to believe in the same beliefs of everyone else.
course we could all just accept the others as people and let everyone live as they see fit, but who would like to do that? a world without hate? that isnt fun at all. -
First off, yes heterosexuality is necessary that doesn't make it right. It just makes it necessary. I wouldn't go so far as to say a necessary evil, but the example still stands.
Second evolution (which I do believe in) still might want to limit the amount of young that are born to a species. It's called a limiting factor in order to prevent that species from outgrowing it's environment, running amok and destroying the environment, and then ultimately themselves, by depleting all their resources. So a limit (such as homosexuality) would actually do our population (which is quickly getting out of hand) a favor, and keep us from dying off to about 10% of our population.
Lastly, using the bible to argue with someone who chooses not to acknowledge religious views is ridiculous. But if you must... what about priests? Yes God told us to procreate, but he also said that abstinence for life was a good option.
And to add to that, according to the bible we're all sinners. Read all the commandments, there are hundreds really. You shouldn't eat pork, or selfish either. And since every sin is the same in the eyes of God... are you just as bad the homosexuals?
There's from the biblical stand point. Take the opposite side, other religions actually celebrate sexuality, outside of marriage, and outside of gender constraints. Sex is simply an expression of connection with nature and another being.
So your religious argument is flimsy at best. If we're going to argue religion, let's at least make it a bit more interesting. I've spoken with scholars this is child's play.
Now as far as hermaphrodite's... technically could have a homosexual relationship. A hermaphrodite can have whichever organs internally and externally, as long as they have one of each. That makes that a bit tougher to classify.
Now to prove why homosexuality is right. Sure. One from the evolutionary stand point it is a limit on the population. Two if using happiness and effectiveness as a family unit then: from the personal stand point, like loving someone blond, loving someone of the same gender is perfectly acceptable under the pretext that it makes you happy.
So while heterosexuality is necessary, and right in the right context, say when both parties are happy and love each other. It can also be quite wrong, say in abusive relationships.
Homosexuality makes people better for being a caring relationship. It makes people happy. It creates a limit on our population. It exists in the natural world (you know with animals) and societally with us.
Overall though there is no homosexuality without heterosexuality, that says nothing for proving one more right than the other, simply for proving one more necessary.
Necessity doesn't make things right. It's necessary for people to die, and in fact die young in order to leave resources for 'the strong' however we'd hardly argue that to be right.
Good luck,
kat
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choosing to be gay?
to all those people who say that its a choice, I want to say is why (no offense to gay, being one myself) would anyone WANT to be gay? its hard. the getting beat up in highschool was hard. the not being aloud to get married is hard. the getting fired for being gay is hard. so, what good factors are there that would make soooooo many people want to go through so much shit. maybe if there were less ignorant assholes who made life miserable, then I might see it. just maybe -
Acording to the 9th amendment, just because something isn't write, doesn't mean it shouldbe illegalized.
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morrison you're spot on
Being gay myself, I would have to agree with morrison. Choosing to be gay is as ridiculous a proposition as choosing your eye, hair, or skin color. There is proof that homosexuality is genetic and if you people would open your eyes you would see it. Sure the Bible lists it among sins along with eating shellfish, getting tatoos, and trimming your beard. Are you telling me that nearly every person is "wrong" because they've disobeyed Levitical law? Who made you the arbiter of what is "right" and what is "wrong"? Who are you to pick and choose which Levitical laws we should follow? Paul also lists it as a sin and that all of us gays will go to hell for it. Paul also thought that women should not be able to preach. He was a man with his own opinions, and though he was a man of God, like us, he gets confused sometimes. Hate is exactly what this world DOESN'T need, and for you Bible-bangers out there who say that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord, loke at the fundementals of Christianity. It's this little tiny thing called LOVE. Love means acceptance and understanding, NOT trying to homophobically change people to be like everyone else. Why should we have less rights than you do? I'm a person too, and I find it ridiculous that at my school, I'm fairly well liked. If I came out, 80% of the school would hate me and shout things like "Fag" and "Homo" as I walked through the hallway. Even my best friends say "That's so gay." and things like that. I don't stand up to them out of fear of being exposed. After reading this, you cannot seriously be blind enough to think that anyone would choose to be gay. -
humans arent animals and catholics arent christians
biology books are filled with opinions that gained the most support in the scientific community. All science is an assumption based on another assumption-guess your too stupid to realize that. Charles Darwin himself said that he did not find the fossil evidence to prove generational evolution among more complex species but he was sure that future generations would prove him right. future generations proved him absolutely wrong but evolutionist scientists did experiments that would not fail in proving evolution. The only problem was their experiments were not properly done, as pointed out by their peers not by religious fanatics. If you want to say that homosexuals are animals I'll let you do that all day but humans are not animals and you have no valid proof to justify your case. Know your facts before you start spitting off rediculous stuff. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the miracle of life can only come out of the union between the two. If all people were to convert to homosexuality tomorrow the natural world would end. Probably didn't read that in your biology textbook you uninformed liberal. -
humans arent animals and catholics arent christians
biology books are filled with opinions that gained the most support in the scientific community. All science is an assumption based on another assumption-guess your too stupid to realize that. Charles Darwin himself said that he did not find the fossil evidence to prove generational evolution among more complex species but he was sure that future generations would prove him right. future generations proved him absolutely wrong but evolutionist scientists did experiments that would not fail in proving evolution. The only problem was their experiments were not properly done, as pointed out by their peers not by religious fanatics. If you want to say that homosexuals are animals I'll let you do that all day but humans are not animals and you have no valid proof to justify your case. Know your facts before you start spitting off rediculous stuff. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the miracle of life can only come out of the union between the two. If all people were to convert to homosexuality tomorrow the natural world would end. Probably didn't read that in your biology textbook you uninformed liberal. -
humans arent animals and catholics arent christians
biology books are filled with opinions that gained the most support in the scientific community. All science is an assumption based on another assumption-guess your too stupid to realize that. Charles Darwin himself said that he did not find the fossil evidence to prove generational evolution among more complex species but he was sure that future generations would prove him right. future generations proved him absolutely wrong but evolutionist scientists did experiments that would not fail in proving evolution. The only problem was their experiments were not properly done, as pointed out by their peers not by religious fanatics. If you want to say that homosexuals are animals I'll let you do that all day but humans are not animals and you have no valid proof to justify your case. Know your facts before you start spitting off rediculous stuff. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the miracle of life can only come out of the union between the two. If all people were to convert to homosexuality tomorrow the natural world would end. Probably didn't read that in your biology textbook you uninformed liberal.
PS: dont lump all Christians together. I'm a Christian but I disagree with almost everything the Catholic church represents. There is a true message of Christianity that is overlooked and replaced by the way it is represented- which is horrible and not in line with the true message. -
humans arent animals and catholics arent christians
biology books are filled with opinions that gained the most support in the scientific community. All science is an assumption based on another assumption-guess your too stupid to realize that. Charles Darwin himself said that he did not find the fossil evidence to prove generational evolution among more complex species but he was sure that future generations would prove him right. future generations proved him absolutely wrong but evolutionist scientists did experiments that would not fail in proving evolution. The only problem was their experiments were not properly done, as pointed out by their peers not by religious fanatics. If you want to say that homosexuals are animals I'll let you do that all day but humans are not animals and you have no valid proof to justify your case. Know your facts before you start spitting off rediculous stuff. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the miracle of life can only come out of the union between the two. If all people were to convert to homosexuality tomorrow the natural world would end. Probably didn't read that in your biology textbook you uninformed liberal.
PS: dont lump all Christians together. I'm a Christian but I disagree with almost everything the Catholic church represents. There is a true message of Christianity that is overlooked and replaced by the way it is represented- which is horrible and not in line with the true message. -
humans arent animals and catholics arent christians
biology books are filled with opinions that gained the most support in the scientific community. All science is an assumption based on another assumption-guess your too stupid to realize that. Charles Darwin himself said that he did not find the fossil evidence to prove generational evolution among more complex species but he was sure that future generations would prove him right. future generations proved him absolutely wrong but evolutionist scientists did experiments that would not fail in proving evolution. The only problem was their experiments were not properly done, as pointed out by their peers not by religious fanatics. If you want to say that homosexuals are animals I'll let you do that all day but humans are not animals and you have no valid proof to justify your case. Know your facts before you start spitting off rediculous stuff. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the miracle of life can only come out of the union between the two. If all people were to convert to homosexuality tomorrow the natural world would end. Probably didn't read that in your biology textbook you uninformed liberal.
PS: dont lump all Christians together. I'm a Christian but I disagree with almost everything the Catholic church represents. There is a true message of Christianity that is overlooked and replaced by the way it is represented- which is horrible and not in line with the true message.
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Gay Marriage is OKAY7% Voted for by sjrlink100, unheardwisdom, Sunflower Kisses, Holly Ritz, cosmosis. (8 total)
The problem with many of the major religions is that they force their way into the government. With this, they place their own morals and values upon EVERYONE, aka, Gay is Wrong.
Everyone says being gay is wrong. They say, 'read the bible.'
Let me be honest with you. The bible is a book. If I wanted, I could grab a copy of Stephen King's 'It', proclaim it the bible of a religion, and create a mass religion based off of a monster that lives in the sewers and eats children, then work my way into the governemnt and say it's a law you can't ever walk into a sewer.
See how stupid that sounds? But it's true. This is what happens when religion corrupts the government.
There are lots of good points here, from both sides. You're right. We USED to be animals, and we still are, just not much more. But there are still gay people out there. What does it matter to you if their gay. If YOU'RE not, get your damn nose out of their business. They're not attacking you because your straight.
Being gay is not a choice. It happens. Big deal. It's not a sense of morality here. Get over it. Things happen that you're not comfortable with, but if it's not directly affecting you, it shouldn't matter.
Marriage in a religious form is strictly religious, but you CAN get married in a court of law, as in being married in the eye of the government. The government shall not favor any religion, nor deny any, as stated in the constitution. With this, the government should not deny homosexuals the RIGHT to marry. The RIGHT. Understand? The freedom of speech, the first amendment gurantees the RIGHT to individuality. Don't take that away from us.
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you tell 'em!
hell yes!!! -
Right on.
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umm the difference between any book and the Bible is that the Bibles been around for a lot longer than most other books, so of course the bible has WAY more meaning
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It has meaning to who? Christians. Maybe It has meaning to me.
And when the Bible was first written, it hadn't been around for a lot longer. While still going with the analogy, if I adapted It as my religion's Bible, in hundreds of years, it will have been around for a while.
Time does not make the religion. At one time, every religion was just getting started.
You know what I'm saying here?
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ah yes, because we all know what is old is correct!
just look at newtonian physics with quantum physics! -
I wholly agree with this, the bible is a book, nothing more, and if you look at most of the arguments its people trying to make you believe homosexuality is wrong because of their religion, which pretty much end up them trying to shove their beliefs down your throat. What ever happen to tolerance and minding ones own business; did those from Europe not come here for a freedom they could not get? Or did they just come here to create another nation of control freaks demanding you to believe in their religion? And while were at it, did other immigrants not come here for freedom? To be able to choose what they want and not have to live in fear of death for not agreeing with one view?
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WHY DO WE EVEN CARE??6% Voted for by frndofyaweh, Highof75, me alone, spanner, NeferMaatNetjer. (7 total)
It's none of your business who I love, and who I marry. Just care about who YOU love and who YOU marry. I don't see the big thing on this. Plus, WHY should you care about who OTHER people marry?
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yeah really!
i dont give a good steaming pile what other people do in their bedrooms or who they do it with, as long as it's a consenting adult. i don't know why people have to make such an issue out of this. -
THis is my view exsactly, they arnt trying to fource you to be gay so why try and force them to be stright if they dont want to?
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LOOK HERE ALL PERSONS5% Voted for by Lady Strife, SenseiRidgway, spanner, josh.sainsbury, WiseOwl. (6 total)
Er, wrong and right are opinions, ne? You can't win arguments with opinions... Also, somepoeple say being gay is unnatural... Some people also say people of african heritage are unnatural... Some people say people who can run fast are unnatural... Some people say really smart people are unnatural.. Better queston... WHAT IS NATURAL!?
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now these are the words of a true philosopher.
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How true, but sadly it always ends up coming down to someone forcing their beliefs on someone else.
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the way of the charlatan
opinions can be swayed. If someone thinks they can change the tide, they'll tend to push the bar to see how far they can go.
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This how i feel about Gays...4% Voted for by AnnaJayne, sjrlink100, cosmosis, Peace forever, spanner.
Why are we trying to prove that Gay relationships are wrong and something that should be punishable by law for? I have nothing against Gays and i am fully straight, they are people just like everybody else, they have feelings like everybody else. They follow their hearts and really it only matters if they think what they are doing is wrong. Why should we think that Gay relationships are wrong just because the bible says so? There is nothing wrong in being Gay, its just love between two people just like between Hetrosexual relationships...open your eyes and see that Gay relationships are just another example of love between two people. It doesnt really matter what everybody thinks if you are gay, just aslong as you are happy and feel that its right.
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Prove why we should care
Not to be rude.. Well actually.. Perverted people, perverted opinions. Why do you need to try enforcing you slanderous, hollow world upon God fearing people?! -
Good points in your post. That's how America SHOULD feel. Sadly, we have many people who believe they should have the world run as they see fit, and try and change everyone to the way they are.
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@Embers ... i really... really... hope that, that was an attempt at humor... because if not... well... thats a perfect example of how religion is getting WAY too out of hand.... -
Sjrlink, aren't you trying to change everyone into thinking the way you do by saying 'that's how America should feel'? That's imposing your beliefs on someone else and conforming to exactly what you are against.
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what sjrlink is saying is that individual opinions shouldn't be imposed on teh government and cause others unhappiness
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oh boy
ElisaRose, it's a bit different when that so called belief is hate oriented. Many people disagree with white-male supremacy but I can't imagine anyone defending their opinion/belief.
Liberals support sexual freedom, whereas the anti-gay religious zealots want to limit that freedom based entirely off a biased, out-of-date text. Yes, liberals do impose their beliefs, but at least they do not try to take away freedom and tell others that "God" hates them.
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Doesn't matter, he said 'that's how America should feel'. That's imposing his views, as I said.
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But it does make a difference. Open your eyes and see the bigger picture not just the words.
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Agreed
I completely agree that being gay is no differnt, and that it is emotional. I am gay and its hard to make others see that being in a homo relationship has the same feelings that hetero relationships have, Its no different on he inside just on the outside when others look at the gender.
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Here we go again???3% Voted for by the finer point, frndofyaweh, Mujtaba H Zaidi, slshaw115.
Another person who is comparing humans to Animals again? Okay so what if 8% of them are confused, does that mean humans should mimic animals?! By the way Animalism is a curse of the temptations. Animals are also cursed by human errors. We are supposed to be looking at animal behaviour as an example of, how NOT to act as humans. Which means; you are defending my point of view that, Homosexuality is wrong.
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did you read a word of this?
i said nothing about right and wrong... i said "unnatural"... it is very clearly natural, that was the point of bringing that up.... this whole arguement, however, isn't about the "evils" of homosexuality, it's about their right to marry... -
did you skip biology class?
Or are you just too stupid to realize that humans ARE animals to.... It's just our arrogance that makes us think we are so much better than the other living, breathing, thinking organisims around us... people don't just *choose* to be gay. It even says so in the bible... but most people tend to overlook that fact. THe beautiful cahtolic church itself says that being gay is not a sin unless you engage in the actual act of gay sex.... (this is meant for whoever posted the opinion but APhilosophy is different than AllPoetry, so im not sure how to do that) -
ya, that is it! they are confused! oh... but... how can that be... animals dont think... only humans have that ability... oh... animals are ruled by there insticts... so what does that mean...
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Animals dont know about right or wrong eh? Are you sure YOU know about right and wrong??
Nice Kazrith, Crazy :) Aren't humans too ruled by their instincts? How is thought not an instinct? If we are born not knowing how to think, how do we learn how to think with a mind that doesn’t think to begin with?? Isn't cognitive thought just evolution? Can anyone actually prooove humans are not like animals in any way?? Dolphin 1: Those humans, damn they're stupid. Dolphin 2: Damn staight. I mean they haven't even developed telepathy. Dolphin 1: Did you know they still have computers? Dolphin 2: Blah. Still in the Silicon Age? What a joke. Dolphin 1: I'm so glad God made dolphins just like Her. That we dolphins are blessed with cognitive hyper-thought, so that we know about absolute right and absolute wrong. Dolphin 2: Yes. Good thing we don't have to justify right and wrong by looking at what *animals* like the humans do, and sympathising that they don't have hyper-thought, so they don't know what's right and what's wrong. Dolphin 1: Although, with hyper-thought, we can suggest that humans might have a kind of primitive idea about right and wrong, even though they're brains don't have hyper-faculties to fully understand right and wrong? Dolphin 2: Do we? Humans obviously have no recognition of what's right and what's wrong - I mean, they think they're right in thinking they’re the most advanced life form on the planet? Right or wrong, huh? Dolphin 1: I suppose. Dolphin 2: Up for another gay romp? Dolphin 1: Sure thing... Seriously though, there’s no use in saying animals have no recognition of what's right or wrong. In human perspective something may seem very right or very wrong, but why should human perspective apply to all of nature? And since we cannot step outside human perspective to view nature objectively, isn't it absurdly wrong to presuppose with our entirely subjective human opinions about things outside the human world? Just a thought, as always :) -
agreed. another question, is it right for a tree to grow tall so it can get more food but in the process, kill many different trees and plants because it takes up all the light and water?
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i said nothing about right and wrong i said unnatural ----------------------------------------- which implies the word wrong in doing so.
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unnaturalness does not equate wrongness.
Urm, I think there's a problem with that assumption. Putting lumps of metal through artificial holes in your ears isnt natural - but does it imply wrongness? Cars aren't the least bit natural, but are you really to tell me that you've never driven or ridden in one, yourself - because cars are wrong? Computers too, are not natural, yet here you are, sinner?! Naturalness does not equate rightness, nor unnaturalness wrongness. If you think it does, you have to accept that homosexual acts of sex are natural because they occur in the natural world. The argument is weak.
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Or are you just too stupid to realize that humans ARE animals to -------------------------------------------- oh really?.....by what standards?
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alright, biology 81. (aka 11) an animal is anything that is eukaryotic, multicellular, heterotrophic and sexual. so you have to ask yourself, do we have a nucleus(this is not including the red blood cell)? more than one cell? eat other things? to we need to have sex to produce? if all of those are yes' then you are an animal. if they are not, well your alien.
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There's plenty of proof that humans are animals. What would impress me, is if _you_ could prove why humans *aren't* animals. Then we'll see who's court the ball is in.
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animals dont think -------------------------------------- that is not proven in all animals.
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THe beautiful cahtolic church itself says that being gay is not a sin unless you engage in the actual act of gay sex -------------------------------------------- what the church said was sin is not sin until acted upon. In that sense yes, being gay is a sin for the gay lifestyle includes it's actions. Actually, your comments are quite realistic because the really bad thing about sin is when you call it by any other name other than what it really is. That is when sin is the most dangerous.
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Animals have the instinct to eat, the instinct to sleep, the instinct to groom, etc. So are you saying now that just because animals need to eat, we shouldn't eat. Afterall, we shouldn't TRY to be like animals. And afterall, eating IS a tempting agent. So let's all go starve ourselves! With your logic, eating would be wrong! Sex between opposite sexes would be wrong! Sleeping would be wrong! So let's just roll over and die and MAKE SURE we don't leave any offspring. Because that would be REALLY wrong.
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"If an animal does something, we call it instinct; if we do the same thing for the same reason, we call it intelligence." --Will Cuppy
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genius :)
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Parrot
I have a beautiful big African Grey. he talks all the time. Now would you say that is instinct because he is only mimicing what he hears??? Or is it intelligence because mimic or not at least he is able to comprehend the sound and recall it days later when I have not repeated it??? He is able to call my family members by the right name when each approaches his cage so even though he mimics that still falls into the intelligence category some what. He can not only recall words, phrases, and names, but he also is able to attach them to the correct person or thing. All hook bills have the potential to talk, whether they do or not, so is it instinct within that breed or what? The ability to mimic is passed on throughout that breed but the ability to recall it much later reveals a certain amount of intelligence. Just curious as to your way of thinking is all.... -
Just saying
Dude, for the record humans are animals we just have Apposable tumbs. thats what makes use different. -
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Just Saying
Dude, for the record, I don't believe we are animals. -
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Controversially, Bunny, just because YOU do not believe something, there's no reason at all why that thing should also be false for everyone else in the world. Nor does your belief impact upon anything else in the world. So this argument is very weak.
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ennoia
My friend this is a public board, so do you comprehend what that means??? Apparently not! A public board is for people, no matter where they are from, to come express their views. NO, I did not say my views were the only ones that counted. It seems to me you either add to someone's comments or cannot read? Either way, my views are just what you think they are...MY VIEWS. LOL...I guess it must be your animal instinct coming out of you........ :) -
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Fair enough, but you are expressing your point of view in response to an attack someone has made on your argument, so, even though yes, i'll admit, your point-of-view is all important to you, if you have no reasons or evidence to support it, it cannot be considered argument. Thats all. And I beg to differ. If all this board is, is a bunch people expressing what's inside thier mind's eyes, regardless of how anyone else is supposed to interpret this very personal idea, then it would not be philosophy at all, would it? It would just be a very selfish, entirely unrelated swamp of incomprehensible statements. Thats all. :)
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Ennoia, are you giving me a philosophy lesson????
If all this board is, is a bunch people expressing whats inside thier minds eyes, regardless of how anyone else is supposed to interpret this very personal idea, then it would not be philosophy at all, would it? --------------------------------------------- on the contrary, philosophy is ALL about opinions of all the masses. Philosophers think about everything. And they tend to take a broader view of everything than most other people in general. They look at things as if from farther away, to see how they all fit together. In that sense it's completely all about the different views of everyone. What do you think philosophy is??? Look around you and philosophy is everywhere. Philosophy is unavoidable. Even if you think you don't already have a philosophy, you actually do. Like everybody else, you live your life according to ideas and assumptions(which most are merely opinion only) about what the world is like that you picked up along the way. It can do some pretty important things like help you think about thinking. Everybody thinks, and it's especially nice to be able to do it well, both for its own sake and for the practical benefits thinking ban yield. Are you a idealist? A pragmatist? An existentialist? Do you think about things rationally? Empirically? Intuitively? Is your behavior directed by will? By other people? Is there more to reality than what we can see and measure? What to you actually think philosophy is? Guess what my friend, you seem to think a board where people from many different backgrounds, expressing their views on any given subject is not sound philosophy then you are very much wrong. People engage in philosophy when they think about life and everthing in it. The word "philosophy" means love of wisdom. It comes from ancient Greece, where people who liked thinking about life stated calling themselves "philosophers". Of course, life doesn't narrow things down very much. In ancient times and for centuries afterward, philosophy had an extremely wide scope, encompassing subjects we have since separated from philosophy, such as science, math, theology, psycholgy, sociology, and economics. To be more specific, philosophy tends to concern itself with broad, fundamental ideas about knowledge, cosmic reality, human nature, and society. And for better or worse, it also concerns itself with words. It would just be a very selfish, entirely unrelated swamp of incomprehensible statements. Thats all. ------------------------------------------ Sad by true of in the spirit of philosophy. you have just described what the average person sees philosphy as. And if you wish to break it down to the very basics then this is true to it's nature from it's early beginnings. Some even considered myth and philosophy to go hand in hand. Althou it is useful to distinguish the4 ways myth and philosophy explain reality, the 2 ways of explaining are not totally separate. If fact, consider philosophy itself a kind of mythmaking in basic terms. The French philosopher Jacques Derrida describes philosophy as "white mythology" - mythology that ihas had all the familiar images bleached out of it. So don't pretend to entertain me with your so-called knowledge of what philosophy is for I promise you if you wish to discuss philosophy from it's beginnings to now as it developed from the middle ages throughout and it's vas basics to what it is today then I will be more than happy to debate you for my field is formal philosophy in general. This is a philosophy board but it's orginal intent was for it to be a formal philosophy public board. All these silly topics like "gems on cell phones, and dating topics" are posted by teens and are tolerated at the expense of the meaning of this board. So this topic is about the idea of being gay is wrong. I strongly suggest you refrain from attempting to give me a philosophy lesson and stick to the topic at hand my friend. -
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Bunny: I would hope not. Wouldn't you?
_"Philosophy is a discipline or field of study involving the investigation, analysis, and development of ideas at a general, abstract, or fundamental level. It is the discipline in search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative and/ or hypothetical rather than observational means."_ Not quite what you said I think. It's very well what you're saying, but be cautious of appealing to Relativism, its very hard to call it acceptable philosophy. *"Even if you think you dont already have a philosophy, you actually do."* No, philosophy is a specialised concept that involves particular systems like logic and truth. *"They look at things as if from farther away, to see how they all fit together."* Why does that make a philosopher? Scientists, artists, musicians, writers and historians all do this, yet their subjects do not always require the rigorous logic routines of philosophy. *philosophy is ALL about opinions of all the masses* Nazism was all about the opinions of the masses. Do you really mean to say Nazism is vallid philosophy?? Perhaps more to the point, the opinions of the masses at my college is that gayness is acceptable and natural. And of course, because it is the opinion of the masses, with your beliefs, you must be obliged to accept that. Now its nice youve written a little story about philosophy, Im not quite sure why unless you want to prove something. (Remember youre supposed to be proving why humans arent animals were all still waiting.) *It comes from ancient Greece, where people who liked thinking about life stated calling themselves philosophers.* Haha. And great men they were. Plato was a blatant totalitarian, and had difficulties with producing logically deductive systems, Socrates never wrote anything down, Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle (besides almost bypassing logic completely) and Pythagoras thought a little of his soul escaped everytime he farted. Yes, philosophers they all :D Of course, Im not denying the glorious roots of philosophy began in the anciet Cradle of the World, but weve moved on a little since those Greek lovlies went round calling themselves philosophers as you say. *So this topic is about the idea of being gay is wrong. I strongly suggest you refrain from attempting to give me a philosophy lesson and stick to the topic at hand my friend.* Really? And after you wrote that lovely little essay. Unfortunately I dont see anything in your recent argument about homosexuality. *A public board is for people, no matter where they are from, to come express their views.* Im doing exactly that, exactly where I see fit. You attacked me, now I am am alowed to defent myself, you said it yourself! I think, essentially, you missed my point. That is, philosophy is not about relativism. Philosophy is not about everyones individual _opinions_ being of equal importance and valitdity, this, as of course you know, means that you personally must accept all arguments, even contradictory ones to be correct. You clearly dont, so youre not sticking to your own philosophy. I hope you can see what Im saying; its empty to argue the validity of a statement, just because you yourself belief a certain thing, so having a thread of unconnected arguments apealling to an idividuals opinion, devoid of reasonable conclusive evidence, is philosophically useless. I am arguing that it is non-sensical to imagine a system where being gay is wrong, and this is an argument from philosophy. Many arguments for the wrongness of homosexuality are fundamentally religious arguments thats okay, but religion and philosophy are two very different schemes. *Everybody thinks, and its especially nice to be able to do it well.* Haha! Isnt it just? :) -
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What are we if we're not animals, then?
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And whatever your answer, can you provide sufficient proof to support it?
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So what if you don't believe it?
It's a fact! If I were to say I don't believe the sun comes up everyday does that stop it from coming up everyday.
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just saying
@ energizer dude, for the record, it doesn't matter if you "believe" we are animals... it is a proven FACT that we are... it has nothing to do with evolution or any other controvercial crap... that is just a bare fact, not a theory, not an opinion, not anything religious, and more-over not debateable; we ARE animals... -
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proven?????????..... funny word....what do you consider proof?
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;)
You're on a philosophy forum and you don't understand _proof???_ Proof, is a trial assessing the validity or quality of a statement. A proposition is said to be true if it can be validated, thus proved. The concept _animal_ embraces many biolgical and chemical requirements, a few of which Kazrith has stated below. _Animals are a major group of organisms, classified as the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa. In general they are multicellular, capable of locomotion and responsive to their environment, and feed by consuming other organisms. Their body plan becomes fixed as they develop, usually early on in their development as embryos, although some undergo a process of metamorphosis later on. Human beings are classified as members of the animal kingdom._ By scientifically proving humans are composed bilogically and chemically within the definition we understand to be 'animal' we have validated the claim that humans are a type of animal. Your turn... -
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Youre on a philosophy forum and you dont understand proof??? ------------------------------------------- You are on a philosophy board and you do not understand proof is in the eye of the beholder. their is no single undstanding of the word across all baords no matter how broad or narrow the topic seem to suggest. All one has to do is look back (and not that far either) at some of the great philosophers in history. Examine their proofs and findings and you'll see proof is a word that means different things to different people. It has always been that way. It is the same for reality. Who's reality? what reality? There is NO standard across any board. Validity of proof depends on credibility of the ones offering the proof and what perspective they are offering the so-called proof. By scientifically proving humans are composed bilogically and chemically within the definition we understand to be animal --------------------------------------------- we.........who is we? Are you suggesting that we includes every human? If so then you are wrong. Again the meaning of proof you are implying suggest it is a standard across all boards and that is not true. After studying many great philosophers you will soon see they, at many times, could not describe or explain a certain theory but believed it with all their heart. Everything within their physical being told them the "proof" or findings might be a standard but it depends on who considers them standards as opposed to who sees them as mere opinions. In other words, one man's myth is another man's philosophy. Not everything can be explained in detail to satisfy a simple mind my friend. And... not everything is as it seems to be on all topics either. If yiou have not grasped that very simple concept be now I suggest you start. There are many variables in this life and world that are as true in nature as you and I but connot be explained or grasped within a human's finite mind. The great philosophers of the past understood that so since you are on a "philosophy board" (as you say) you should have the ability to comprehend that, or at least I would hope so.
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Bunny
*"You are on a philosophy board and you do not understand proof is in the eye of the beholder."* No! Philosophy is not soley about what's in the eye of the beholder! Philosophy isn't unfounded opinions, truth isn't whatever anyone wants it to be. Relativism is a very very weak form of argument and it puts the arguer in a position whereby they have to accept all opinion (even contradicotry ones) to be equally true, even though they may be unjustified, reasonless statements. You're actually arguing with the dictionary defininition of proof - remember that's largely "the opinions of the masses" as you like to say, so with your philosophy you should accept it. *"After studying many great philosophers you will soon see they, at many times, could not describe or explain a certain theory but believed it with all their heart."* Then it was not a philosophical theory. A ph. theory must be falisfiable. *"The great philosophers of the past understood that"* Why do you believe so strongly in these great philosophers of the past?? Who specifically do you mean? They all contradict each other. Have you never studied them critically and come to your own conclusion? Please could you specify a successful relativist philosopher? I haven't heard of any yet. No of course- _you_ have to accept everything as right and everything as wrong all at the same time because its an opinion. makes sense, doesnt it??
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Proof
why humans are animals - taxonomy, fossils, homogeneus stuctures (ie same bone shapes) oh, and let us not forget DNA. -
sigh
when we place ourselves about animals our downfall is appearent. to think that we are the best thing, the smartest thing on this planet is just plain pathetic. we will get lost in our ideals and lose what humanity truly is. -
sigh
we will get lost in our ideals and lose what humanity truly is. ---------------------------------------------- So what is humanity to Kazrith? -
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the ability to be who we are.
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_Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?!_
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i dont believe that the earth is round, or that it rotates around the sun
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I think the point that energizer bunny is trying to make is that, while down to the letter of the law we are animals, it's more the spirit of the law that is concerned here. yes, technically we are animals, because we are eukaryotic and heterotrophic and have sex to reproduce. but, as humans, we are held to a much higher level of morality than the rest of the animal kingdom, and it's that characteristic that is the rather more important one when we're talking about philosophical issues.
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*we are held to a much higher level of morality than the rest of the animal kingdom* Why?? Where does it say that? (and please, _don't_ say the Bible, we're philosophers here) If this is just your opinion, then I am in no position to argue with it. However, your single opinion, nor Bunny's, does not at all prove the accusation that homosexuality is a universal 'wrong'.
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Look, Humans are animals too, You cannot reason that only *Humans* have thought, There is a gorrilla that they've trained to sign, and She has oppinions, she makes choices, she knows right and wrong. All of that. And besides-Have you *ever* owned a dog? Trust me, they know when they've done something wrong.
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Clearly this Engergizer Bunny is just some non-human primate with a computer, because they appear to be incapable of intelligent thought. (One part of intelligence is replacing your beliefs when wrong)
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what if...... Energizer was secretly a sophisticated AI program??? there we go, we don't know if anyone on this site is human or not!
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Oh, You're gay....2% Voted for by ljeenu, spanner, Winter Wolf.
gay marriage is tottally cool. Since when does the government rule by the bible, and if it ever does completely the government will fault, because of the right of relgion. and A lot of gay people read the bible and believe in god, or at least I've always thought so. My drum major, ( leader of marching band) is gay, and I never really realized it. I mean everyone makes fun of him all the time about it and I just figured they were kidding or something but one day at a party I was having at my house I confronted him about it, and he told me he was gay. I always thought he was just bisexual if anything because it turns out I had a crush on him when he was younger. He had recently came out this year and he is one of the most down to earth people I will probably ever meet in my life. And he just happens to be extremely sexy. There was this freshman that really doesnt like him because of his sexual preferance, but the thing about it was so amazing the way he handled it. A lot of gay people blow up at people with explanations on why it's so GREAT to be gay and they tell them tht being straight might even be wrong, but My friend told him that he had his own choice, that he believed in god and he felt like he didn't want to lie to the world forever and have god be mad at him for lying, making a mistake at something he knew in his heart since he was like... 13 years old. That blew me away, because I had never heard someone talk about sexuality like that. Even though, I'm straight I can see where he is coming from, and I defintely think that being gay is something that someone has a choice on. If they want to marry someone of the same sex, let them do that. Society on the other hand should be open to people's views on the world and should accept people for who they are not what the look like, what sex they prefer, what color their skin is, the income their family makes. Everything is so judgemental sometimes I think that I might have a heartattack feeling sorry for the people that try to make a difference. How ever, people that make a difference need NO pity, they are the bravest, craziest, most-outgoing people in the world, and they should be reconginized positively instead of negitively. Thank you and have a nice day
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Adding your comment:
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being gay is not a choice. with all the anti-gayness around no one would choose it.
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also, did you choose your heterosexuality? if you didn't then why do you think gay people choose their sexuality? they dont
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You don't choose heterosexuality, because that is the sexuality the God implanted in us in the first place. You choose homosexuality be allowing homosexual thoughts saturate your mind. IUf you let that happen, you become addicted to homosexuality, like like any other drug, or pornography. And then after they chose to get addicted, gays say "We cannot choose who we love", but that is because they CHOSE who sexually activates them. Like a drug addict. They can no longer control what substances they allow into their bodies, but that is AFTER the CHOSE to get addicted in the first place.
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can you really help who you love??2% Voted for by frndofyaweh, biggy-fan-u-555, spanner.
loving some one is not some thing you can control is it?...i always thought that any one could fall in love with any one...and if some one wants to be with the person they love forever they can do that....but people are taking that away from homosexuals just because ther the same sex well thats not right...they fell in love, its not there falt that the person they love is the same sex....and they can adopt kids the orphaniges are getting to full any way so why not let them get married and adopt.....
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Gay marriages
Falling in love really can't be helped and once you love someone and they love you back you should be allowed to get married and adopt kids. They never try to stop tranvestites from marring because its seems on the outside to appear to be a naormal thing. but if you really looked on who they were at first then it still is a homo relationship just one has had a sex change toi appear as accepted into society. If people really would see there is no difference and its an emotion that can't be helped, they might think differently.
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sexuality2% Voted for by Morbid Enigma, cosmosis, spanner.
you are what you are. you can't choose your sexuality. you can't be force to be gay, straight or bisexual. I have no problem with anyone, you are who you are, and if people can't accept that, then that is their problem.
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people!!1% Voted for by Ominee Haynes, cosmosis.
sorry can't prove its wrong. you can't.Is it that hard to understand. Sometimes its following your heart and sometimes it lust or etc. it sounds like the same thing for straight people. so yall need to chill down cause first off don't be gay if ya don't like it. Ya can't always help what you desire anyway but hey feel free to grow up anyday and except the fact that there are people out there that aren't the same and don't want to blend with you or maybe differ in intersts. Hate just makes you seem so jealous. Some peoples base rights and wrongs on the bible but not everybody lives their life by the bible. Some say its not natural but lots of things aren't unnatural but its still there and yet people can dwell on homosexuals being unnatural
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Geez1% Voted for by ElisaRose, Mujtaba H Zaidi.
I don't like gay marriage, I can't understand why a gay person would want to be married. Marriage is a Christian practice and we all know that Christianity says gays are wrong. Have a joined union or something, why a marriage? To say that being gay is natural, it really isn't, it's not the natural order of things and science will prove that. If your gay then your gay, you are clearly different from a straight person, so what's this need gay people have for wanting to allign, or assimilate themselves with straight people?
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geez, some people really can not think for themselves
there is a difference between different and wrong by the way. a male is different from a female but that doesnt mean being male is wrong. being black instead of white is not wrong, it is _different_. it is as simple as that. oh and why do people marry: it shows their mate how deep their love is for them, it gives them certain legal status with the other (ie: children) and quite a few others, you really just have you use your mind. ask yourself why straight people marry. there, you have your answer. (they are not that different now are they?) -
'Natural order'??? 'Christian practice'??? Oh dear.
Whoa. How very narrow minded! First of all, marriage ISN'T just a Christian practice, it's a Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Sikh, and originally a *pagan* one, and probably older than that. Theres evidence Neolithic humans partnered off and kept the same mate. (Yup - just like Christmas is in the bleak midwinter because of the pagan festival. Jesus (or the evidence of the man supposedly called Jesus) was actually born in July, 4BC) But I digress. Christianity does NOT say gays are wrong - why are there so many gay priests? How did they get the job? The lied of course. And kept it secret. But they are of course men of God, supposedly. Are you asking us to conclude that homosexuality is only "right" when it's hidden away?? (Can you hide anything from God???) The BIBLE says Christianity is wrong, and we all know how difficult it is to interpret that absolutely, with its many contradictions and out-of date doctrines. "It's not the natural order." Do you even know what this elliptical 'natural order' is? Because I'd like you to clarify that for everyone, we sure dont. You surely can't mean what is evident in nature, I won't even begin to quote how much evidence there is for homosexuality in animals, just read around the threads. Whilst it's exceedingly self-gratifying to conclude that the need and want for marriage is only open to heterosexuals, you haven't specified any reasons why any of us should believe you. Even if this elusive natural order justified your point, and Im afraid to say I cant see how it does, is it right that we should set our standards from what we see animals do? I thought this God fellow was rather more central for religious morality. -
If you can't see that being gay isn't natural then you are blind, it goes with the tab A slot B mentality, purely physically. Whether being gay is natural to you or not is irrevelant because if humans were meant to be gay then both sexes would be able to bare children and not just the woman. Two guys as well as two girls couldn't have children, in the strictest sense being gay is unnatural. Maybe in your heart it isn't but physically it is. Also, comparing humans to animals, that is hilarious. Animals eat their own crap and vomit, some eat or kill their own young, so are you going to go say that is natural now because, hey, the animals do it?
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you are truly naive. i assume that you dont know why animals eat their own stools do you? just for your information, animals eat their stools because they have a lack of food. the same goes with their vomit. animals that malnutritioned can not afford to lose all of the nutrients that are still present in those substances. how about this: it is natural for people to be gay so we can control the population. a female crocidile can control the sex of her eggs and in saying so, if there are more males in the river system, the female will hatch female eggs. animals kill their own young because they fear that the kit will take over their domain. politions do it all the time. kill or be killed. "When an animal does something, we call it instinct. when a human does something, we call it intelligence" - Will Cuppy
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and some humans also eat there own shit... in fact theres a cult that eats garbage... -
Yea some humans may eat their own shit but does that make it natural, don't tell me you look at your own shit and think, YUM. That's such an irrevelant, albeit funny, retort.
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hehehe. i like your reply, see how your words work against you? so some people are heterosexual, but does that make it natural? in your words no. you know why? cause not everyone is heterosexual. what the majority do does not make it natural "when a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing"
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Kazrith, make sense. I was talking physically, because physically being gay doesn't make sense, it doesn't work. It is not natural, natural is man + woman= kid, I said I was talking strictest sense, not what was in your heart. If you love someone of the same sex, fine whatever, all I was saying is that it doesn't go with the natural order of life, in the most basic of forms, in reproduction. If humans were meant to be gay then, like I said, women wouldn't be the only ones to bare children. So next time, before you start spouting off at the mouth, read what I'm actually saying and not just what you want to read.
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na, i already stated my oppinions above. you know, the one you didnt reply to. this one was just showing how you are twisting your words or do not fully comprehend how you stated your argument. all right i will read this thing again and answer your questions (again). 1) why a marriage? because a marriage is something deep, something profound that tells your mate your devotion to them. 2)Gay people (and in saying so you are refrencing men. I will say homosexual)or homosexuals do not wish to be _assimulated_ into the heterosexual way of life. they want the same _rights_ as heterosexuals do. so simply, they want to be able to be human and not something flawed. now for your individual comments: first comment: yes i am saying it is natural because animals do it. you know why? because people like you insist they only have insticts. so if their insticts tell them to proceed in a homosexual relationship, they do and according to the standard argument, they dont think. and in saying so, it is natural. (not to mention that they are excellent at rearing young of failed members and helping in the raising) second comment: no question, a really irrelivent topic to disscuss and if you want my oppinion just read my other comments. third comment: ah, the natural order of things. well if you really sit and _think_ about it, if it wasnt _natural_ it wouldnt exist now would it? fourth comment: reasoning only works if you have some solid evidence to support and sway your opponents dissision. not to mention that you have to do it in a way that doesnt tread on the toes the opponent. yes i can say that i tread on your toes quite a few times here but it is needed for you to see the simple answers to your questions. happy debating!
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then what about...
infertile couples and old people? they cant have kids either... so should they, too, be banned from marriage? they cannot produce kids, so, using your "logic", they should not be able to marry... and, yes... i did put logic in quotation marks because you are very obviously not using any... -
Wow, I guess there's just not reasoning with you people now is there? You totally missed the point or chose to ignore it. Typical.
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Nothing un-natural then???
Not _natural_ eh? Get off the computer, and start hunter-gathering. You make me sick with your technology. You unnatural sinner, you! :P
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Such logic, I'm stunned.
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Elisa
What exactly _is_ your point? *"I don't like gay marriage"* Is it nothing more than you personally thinking homosexuality is wrong? So far you haven't given any reasons as to WHY its wrong that aren't contradictory or sensless
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Oh my God, I never said it was wrong in the love sense or what you feel for someone, if you find someone you love, who cares what others think. All I was saying is that it wasn't natural for reproduction, when it comes to reproduction, it doesn't work. That's all I was saying and you all blew it out of proportion, so read things before you start attacking. Also, Kazrith is probably the most arrogant one on here, so I don't bother talking to him anymore, atleast you, ennoia, have an open mind and bothered to see my opinion, however you thought of it.
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To dear Elisa Rose
Dear Elisa Rose!
You are justified in saying that marriage is a religious practice and the tradition of Abrahamic religions, though it has become a social and cultural value as well; it is therefore any other sexual union both between the people of same gender and opposite gender cannot be declared as marriage.
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*"I never said it was wrong in the love sense or what you feel for someone"* But the thing is you cite that the Church says its wrong, so we naturally assume this is your opinion. Why is sex between two males or two females any less okay than to love and feel for someone of the same sex? Isn't sex for you all about loving and feeling for the other person? I think so. *"All I was saying is that it wasnt natural for reproduction"* Is sex between a hetrosexual, but infertile couple wrong, then? It doesn't result in reproduction, after all. I know it seems crude to attack particular statements like that, but its the only way to isolate the bits of your argument I don't agree with. I hope you'll consider my points! And I find it offemsive you saying that about Kazrith; in my experience he's a very valuble philosopher indeed and has lots of interesting things to say. You should check out his other choices and comments and maybe you'll agree with me.
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I never said I agreed with Christianity, I was just stating what they believe in regards to marriage. Whatever, Kazrith is arrogant and I don't even care enough to talk about him. You're still missing the point, an infirtile couple obviously can't have kids and to be honest, you're pulling at straws there. Gay people can't have kids together, comparing them to an infirtile couple is not a good comparison. An infirtile person is just something that happened, like being blind. Maybe you'll see the point this time or maybe you'll make another innane comparison, but the point of this whole arguement, that got completely misconstrued, is that gay people can't reproduce and scientifically it doesn't work, it doesn't contribute to recontinuing the species. I don't care on an emotional level, I couldn't care less if someone is gay, it doesn't make them any less of a person, I was just merely stating that they can't reproduce. Stop putting words in my mouth.
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hehe! quoting you is _not_ putting words in your mouth. I'd like to see you disprove the existence of the 'homosexual' gene, then maybe your argument might hold more weight. Do you mean arrogant or correcting?? Making the comparison to infertile couples, as Crazyhead did, is *not* pulling at straws, just because it undermines your arguement. It is perfectly acceptable philosophy - you made a statement, we point out a situation where your premises do not follow to your conclusion. What exactly is youre argument then, if you are not appealing to Christianity? Or is it not so much an argument as an unfounded personal problem with gay people?
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and i was simply saying that infertile couples cant reproduce... do you honestly think that being gay is a choice? if you do then you are horribly mistaken... homosexuality is as much a choice as being blind, smart, blond, or old... and i take great offence to you insulting of Kazrith! kazrith is one of the clearest-headed people on this site... you only dislike him because he proves people wrong, and he happend to do that to you... no-one likes to be wrong, but saying someone is arrogant simply because they have bested you is just plain immature...
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Nope, no one put any words in my mouth.
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thank you Crazyhead, ennoia. Elisa Rose, i wouldnt say my comment was exactly arrogent, but what was needed to bring a dawning of a new day to someones mind. i answered your questions nicely (well not so nicely the second time, i dont like repeating myself) and gave a good offence or deffence or whatever you want to your position.
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your original comment restated
"I don't like gay marriage, I can't understand why a gay person would want to be married. Marriage is a Christian practice and we all know that Christianity says gays are wrong." ok. i don't know if there is a statement in the bible which says that being gay is wrong. (however remember it was written a very long time ago, by HUMANS, who may have added to God's word a little... with the prejudice of their time) but i know that Jesus preached forgivness and love, he loved us all no matter what we were, he taught love instead of hate, he forgave sinners. he would never have preached hate against gay's, quite the opposite, he would have told us to love them and accept them. why would a gay person want the right to marry. well firstly saying they CAN'T marry is saying thay because they are differant they are inferior and should not have the same rights as us. sounds a bit like like aparthied. also, there are legal and monetary advantages to having your relationship put down in law, in marriage. also, as said above, marriage is a decleration of love and commitment. why should gay people NOT have this? it is insulting to suggest that they should not, and i would like to see anyone give a reason why they shouldn't. (i don't see 'i don't see why they should want to be married' as a reason.) -
you said something about not being able to recontinue the population. well i have thought on it and i think that they do continue the population for they are able to adopt children and raise them so that they can continue to populate this world with their kin. or the fact that they are a population control and in being so, are natural because their positions in the world are needed. you have said that you found me arrogant. i really dont mind if you do but you cannot dissmiss my points even if i were. you will find more arrogant people than me on this site but out of respect, you should atleast take the time to try and defend your position cause (from my POV) I am not exactly sure of your exact standing. i want to know why you feel that there is no point to them marrying and why they would even want to. to me this is clear but i dont understand your reasoning so if you would care to restate your position, i would be much abliged to try to be less arrogant.
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Kazrith you are such a philosopher :) Well said.
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WTF?
Whos to say that straight people arent different from gay people? -
The Bible Says...
Dear President Bush: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said, "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. *************** 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this law applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination? 7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) Mr. Bush, I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. NOW OBVIOUSLY YOU AREN'T PRESIDENT BUSH BUT I DO THINK THIS WORKS PRETTY WELL FOR YOU TOO.. Make a comment on it when you grow up and realize you are wrong, especially your religous "facts". ~RoberT -
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hahahahaha
you are awesome. the bible contains 6 admonishments against homosexuals and 362 against heterosexuals...hmmmm...
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ummm
Then how do other cultures get get married you pendejo. Not all people who get married are christian. el stupido. -
um... right.
A few things here, i think... first, in my opinion as i'm sure i've stated before, anything which exists in natural... it cannot exist if it is not a part of nature, because everything essentailly is nature (does that sound redundent?). Anyway, im gay so obviously i think its perfectly ok no matter how you look at it. on a less than relevant note, i have always found Kazrith to be one of the more sensible people on this site... being one of the ones who actually bothers to analyze a persons post before trying to tear up their opinion. You (meaning ElisaRose), on the other hand, rarely make any sense and when someone identifies a flaw in your reasoning you seem to either belittle their opinion by claiming they're just grasping at straws, or claiming the author is arrogant and so his points are moot. so yeah... not sure that added much to anything, but w/e...lol -
lol,wow this is a long arguement. I for one agree with elisa,it's not physically natural, and I'm against it,just for that sake of they think just because they have rights that they have to parade around the world every freakin day and tell everyone about their issues. If they want to marry,so be it,but keep it in your house...my god...
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I respect all gay people, and they are no different to straight people. I seriously think that in years to come, gay will be natural.
BUT
Gay people also have to respect religions. I dont think gay people shouldnt be married, simply because christianity says its not morally right. AND whether they burn in hell because it wrong is another thing.
Marriage is from christianity, and is about putting God at the centre of your marriage.
Gay people should instead get, whats it called partnership? where they proclaim there love infront of there friends and family, and make vows. simples. -
Marriage is a right, not a heterosexual privilege.
If you believe in god (and yes, i am an atheist and choosing not to capitalize his name) so strongly, then why would he have created something you believe to be 'unnatural'? I am bisexual, and believe that everyone has the right to love. Why does it concern you that others would like to marry another of the same gender? Does it even affect you in ANY way shape or form? No, it does not, so I do not even know why you waste your time every day thinking that it is wrong. If it is not what you believe then so be it, but why would you affect others happiness just to make you Mr. fucking straight ass happy that other men are not kissing somewhere? Just because you do not think it is right does not mean you have any bit of the liberty or right to take away another man or womans happiness, and exclamation of their love for another of the same sex.
i love a woman, and i love a man.
i am a girl.
and i am not wrong, nor am i unnatural.
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Define the Terms1% Voted for by EarthToJim, endsofbread.
Before two parties can intelligently debate an issue it is necessary to define the terms. The biggest problem with your question is the word "WRONG". Christians accept the Bible as God's Constitution, and because the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, it takes no further proof to prove that homosexuality is wrong. If we are asking atheists what is right and wrong, they might refer to the U.S. Constitution, or State Law, or the Satanic Verses or who knows what? If the U.S. Supreme Court outlaws any and all homosexual behavior tomorrow, then all like behavior WILL BE WRONG until the end of time or until their decision is overturned. So, if you wanted to engage in such activities, you could fly to the Netherlands where it is "NOT WRONG" according to local laws, and customs.
I'd have to say that, as of today, there is an American consensus that homosexuality is wrong and THAT is what makes homosexuality wrong. Bikini swimsuits were wrong in the 1920's. They are OK today. Consensus changes and the media is going full blast right now to try to legitimize the whole gamut of perverse behavior. It would be interesting to be able to monitor society for the next few hundred years stopping in every decade for a few days to see how social mores change.
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If we are asking atheists what is right and wrong, they might refer to the U.S. Constitution, or State Law, or the Satanic Verses or who knows what? "Satanic Verses" Atheists DONT BELIEVE IN SATAN DUMBASS!
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Wow, you're a genius.
There's a pile of atheists that believe in "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not commit adultery." etc. even though they don't specifically believe that any kind of God above created those rules in bolts of lightning on slabs of stone. Geez, man, look in the mirror to see a real dumbass. -
That has nothing to do with religious conviction. It is basic human law. You just contradicted yourself. You said that atheists refer to Satanic verses. I agree with radio-panda. You are a dumbass, because then you turn around and say that 'a pile of atheists' believe in "Thou shalt not kill" etc. So, do you mean to call the Bible Satanic Verses? I just really don't understand the point that you were trying to make to radio-panda. What does the fact that atheists don't believe in Satan have to do with the following Bible verses and the statement about atheists not believing in a God who is all fire and brimstone? That just seemed to not be related at all, so as your previous title suggests, wow, you're a genius.
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Get It Through Your Thick Skull...
Perhaps it is your ignorance that confounds you... the "Satanic Verses" I was refering to is a novel by Salman Rushdie which, essentially, is a discourse on the age-old topic of good versus evil and the question of which one of those two qualities is the inherent nature of man. Any atheist who is the least bit philosophical MIGHT draw some moral inspiration from that book. I was only using the Satanic Verses as an example... I could have used any book with a philosophical slant. You see, there is no homogenous consistency to atheists. Some have moral underpinnings and yes, some even take there moral foundations from the bible without believing in God. One of the most popular moral copouts, in fact, are people who just believe in either the Golden Rule or the Ten Commandments. Then you have quite a bunch who believe in Hammurabi's Code (an Eye for an Eye). All these people don't necessairly believe in God and some are straight out atheist. Haven't you ever met someone who said, "Well, I don't believe in God, but I think if you just do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, you'll do fine in society." That you and Radio Panda completely ignored the thrust of the comment and choked on minutia reflects poorly on your ability to engage such subjects with informed intelligence. -
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I think these poor souls had 'The Satanic Verses' confused with that lovely bit of tripe, 'The Satanic Bible' by Anton LaVey - in which he advocates the worship of Satan and the use of magical spells and rites.©
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My opinion1% Voted for by mr cheeseydude, GinryuStargazer.
Hello, all...my name is Nick.
I am 14, a sophomore in high school, getting straight A's and B's in school. I wear the same clothes as everyone else. I have medium length brown hair and greenish greyish eyes. I have a mom and a dad, and a sister. I also have a dog and a cat. Nothing is unnatural about my life.
My opinion on gay marriage is non-existant. I always look on both sides of the fence. On one side, love is love no matter what. On the other side, gay marriage can start problems. Heterosexual friends can say they are married just to get the benefits.
Most people who listen to my opinion on things like it. If you have agreed with what I've said so far. Let me say something that may change your views, if you are extremely close-minded.
I'm gay.
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wow
i dont think i've heard a better reasoning on the matter. truly amazing... i agree completely. -
truely offended!
how the hell do you not view straight A's and B's as unnatural ;) thats absolutly disgusting!!! (j/k) very well said... -
your life is extremely similar to mine.....creepy. i mean we're both guys, green eyes, 14, gay, highschool, straight a's and b's and a mom and dad and a sister...whoa
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THANK YOU!
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How exactly do get straight As and Bs. I assume you're not in a very competitive school.
To claim marriage benefits you need a marriage certificate and other such things. There is no point to what you say.
Enjoy being gay. -
There are so many gay people on here...
I'm going to be incredibly sexual orientationist (or whatever it is lol) and say...
Is it just me or do gay people seem like they are always looking for something? -
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Yeah, their keys. My gay friends are always losing their keys, sometimes they can't find matching socks either :-)
Plus, I once knew a guy who couldn't find himself, but then he realised he was gay - he's very happy now.
What do you think the homogenous group "gay people" are always looking for?
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Amazing.
Beautifully composed reasoning.
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ANd to you all...
I ended the quarter with straight A's except one B+ in ((stupid, lol)) Geometry, and in all the accelerated classes. SO HA TO YOU, mr cheesydude!!!
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depends how you look at it1% Voted for by Bob the Elder, tieed.
yes animals may be gay, that doesn't make it natural. 'natural', the dictionary definitions doesn't say 'wot animals do'. we can have unnatural animals. you say we do. gay is unnatural. they cannot produce young, and therefore are an evolutionary no no. they are not natural. this does not mean, however, that it is wrong to be gay, or that there should be any negative views against them. or indeed that they should be treated differantly. a pack of animals will drive off one born albino, who will often die. gay's are not a danger to our pack- society- and should be treated as what they are- human. re marriage. denying them to right to marriage is expressly stating that their love is not as valid as male/female love, also that they are second class citizens who do not deserve what 'normal' people get. it should be established as thus, and stated clearly so. we (the ones in power) are so disgustingly set in their ways, they cannot see the clear and undeniable truth. there is no reason gay people should not be treated exactly the same as normal people, ever, except possibly when it comes to the more complicated issues al involving children, ie adoption, sperm donation, etc.
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...
did it ever occour to you as you sat there, trying to look like you were tolorant, that you continually refered to "normal people" and "gays" as two different groups... clearly you see the hypocricy of condeming others for treating homosexuals as abnormal, while you continually refered to them as a different group than the "normal people"... -
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yes, 'normal people' and 'gays' ARE two differant groups. gay's are in a minority. they are also an evolutional dead end, they are unusual. differant. clearly so. it's quite obvious that being gay is not normal. they are, indeed, abnormal. however, someone being abnormal or differant is no reason for treating them badly or thinking of this differance as something WRONG. i've nothing against people who are differant. it points at a major problem with preconceptions when being called 'differant' is an insult, or implies hate. sounds about the same as using 'nigger' as an insult. :(
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gays = humans straights = humans we're all human! why the hell does it matter what our sexual preferences are? saying homosexuality is not "normal" is the same as saying that a guy who doesn't like double-d cups isn't "normal"... what you find sexually attractive doesn't put you in or out of "normalcy"... ... the only thing your sexual preference dictates is who you're going to end up with in bed... if that (little humor)... -
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hey it's you again... hi... ok it doesn't matter what our sexual preferences are. i don't think it should matter any more whether you are gay or not, than it matters whether your hair is black or brown. but 'normal' is defined by encarta as 'usual: conforming to the usual standard, type or custom'. the majority of people are not gay. therefore gay is not normal. come to that the majority of people 'like' double d cups. so i would say. yes. what you find sexually attractive does, very clearly by the dictionary, definitaly put you in or out of normalacy. however, i'll say again... 'normal' is in no way neccesarily a desirable state. it is simply a comment on what proportion of people (or animals, plants, whatever' have the characteristic or whatever. positive or negative judgements on the 'norm' should be seperate. unfortunately it seems so often that anything other than 'norm' means there's something wrong with you... hey, i know it, i get bullied for dressing differantly from the norm.
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actually...
the dictionary does say that natural is defined as something that takes place in nature. lol. if you don't believe me chek it out -
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lol... you trying to make me feel stupid? :p ok so i didnt actually look it up in the dictionary... hmmm.... lets treat 'dictionary definition' as a metaphor. lol. yes but... if you look up 'nature' it comes up with a load of stuff about being all natural and living things'... hey.. 'natural'... this is gonna be going in circles. hmm. but yeh... i guess i think of natural as meaning, norm... or something like that...
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Dictionary definition as a metaphor. You are a screwy dude, you know that?
Natural is not normal, normality is a statistical fiction. Organisms simply exist, being an evolutionary dead end does not make an organism 'unnatural', evolutionary dead ends are a part of NATURAL selection.
Jeeeeeezus!!!
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do you break out your dictionary when you crap to make sure it's also natural too?..lmao.
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im not sure if energizer bunny was talking to me but it is natural to poop. lol
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If normal people and gays are two different groups because gays are a minority, then are Jews abnormal? What about people from Canada? There are less of them then there are of people from America. How are they abnormal? What's so abnormal about being in a minority?
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well, lordmonkey, if you haven't already noticed, christians dont exactly use logic... logis under-minds the entire system on which their religion is based... little tidbit: 80% of people who live in NYC are minorities... at what point in time does 80% become a minority? i'm beginning to think that some people would go to africa and think "look at all the minorities"... it's not that it's not normal, its that they dont like it... and if the "christians" dont like it... why allow it? after all... they ARE more important than everyone else (or, at least, they are by their own standards)
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I think you are being a bit harsh to Bob, Crazy Head. Most people would agree that Homosexuality is not 'normal'as you cannot reproduce from it (just like people with reproductive systems that do not work are not the norm) and he was not trying to insult homosexuals (he seems to be for them) he just wanted to say just because people are not like everybody else that is not a bad thing. If Pro-Homosexuals want Homosexuals to be treated the same then they shouldnt bite the head off of those that support them such as Bob.
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so then, if not being able to reproduce is not normal... then old people are abnormal....
normality is an illusion created during WW2 and the cold war to "protect" us from the "commies" that were hiding under our beds...
and, you know what.... lets talk about being "NORMAL" for a second shall we.... lets dispell the whole concept of "normal" always being a good thing...
in early bugs bunny cartoons it was quite "NORMAL" for bugs to appear in black-face....
it was quite "NORMAL" in the dark ages and medieval period, to be executed if you were not the right religion for the area that you inhabited....
in nazi germany it was quite "NORMAL" for some of the most sadistic things ever carried out to happen on a daily basis....
normal does not equal good...
the status quo shouldn't always be filled...
sometimes you need to take your eyes off archeic tradition and think about the good of the people around you...
regaurdless of the bible saying being gay is "wrong"... it also says above all else to "love thine brother"
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Back To Religion1% Voted for by Sunflower Kisses, spanner.
The USA was formed because being of people being perscuted by religion. (At least that is what we are told) People who are being perscuted in other countries flee those countries to come here and be from perscution. This is a country that prides itself on the freedom of religion. "One big melting pot" To use religion as a reason againest homosexual marriage is unconstitutional. We have the freedom to persue our own happiness. Not being allowed to persue our own happiness is also unconstitutional. I dont agree with a lot of peoples points of veiw on what makes them happy, but its not my life. For example I do not dream about having a big huge white wedding with everyone I know there. But this will not stop me from showing up to a wedding like this, if it makes that person happy. Futhermore, natural or unnatural what goes around comes around. Those who are perscuting againest the homosexuals will one day be perscuted againtest. It doesnt really matter what animals do or dont do.
Humans are animals even I will admit that, but animals have also been know to eat their own shit and lets face it, not many of us are willing to do that.
As humans we are believed to have a higher intelligence and part of that higher intelligence is for tolerance. Tolorant to that which we might nessassarily believe in. It doesnt really matter what you think is right or wrong it is really a question of what you are willing to tolorate. People are afraid that homosexuality will become contagious. Well I hate to tell you this but you are either homosexual or not homosexual, its not really something that will take hold and become a trend just because the marriage is allowed.
Someone in here also said that gays will get married just to have the rights of being married. What about the straight people that get married to immigrants just so they can keep their greencard? Why hasnt this been made illegal yet?
Just some thoughts
N
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i may be wrong but i could have sworn that the USA was made cause they didnt want to be apart of britian. sorry i am not american but that is what i was taught in school
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i hope you get his my computer is acting funny. This is for Kazrith. That is why it was formed, but not why people came here. They came here to escape prosecution. my family came over on the mayflower, they were puritians(and very liberal, it runs in the blood). The country when it was formed was formed looking for britian, we wanted to break off from britian becuase we wanted more freedoms. Britian was opressing us, so we broke off. ♥kate
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y'all remember the thing i posted about "the lie that is history"?....
*points at me alone, sunflower, and spanner* SEE!!!!? you see what i mean!!!? ahhhg....
this is why we need to keep our history books nearer the truth... -
People came to America to escape the religious persecution in England (which has a state sanctioned religion). It was a colony until deciding to break off from England over taxation issues (among other things).
Puritans were liberal? Have you read any history books? Try reading any literature on that era; you will find that they were more straitlaced than Christians nowadays are accused of being.
"What about the straight people that get married to immigrants just so they can keep their greencard? Why hasnt this been made illegal yet?" Do not know how to break this to you, but it is illegal.
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Biblical ref: If a man lies with a male. . .Voted for by Mary O.
Biologically not natural.
Biblical ref: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20:13
Ironic, a gay man still seeks a hole for self gratification.
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are you just dumb?
in the desciption of this topic it says - "is there any arguement other than 'the bible says so'?" and by the way... straight guys tend to stick to holes them-self..... ... i swear to buddah you people will be the death of me........ -
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Sorry, Crasyhead. I responded quickly to a comment I read here and didn't read your above statement. And, yes, I should agree straight guys stick to holes. It's the natural thing to do. :)
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STOP THIS NOW
gays should not be persecuted and never should this site say why are gay marrages wrong what it should say is why are gay marrages perceived as wrong there is nothing wrong with gay marrages just that every one is afraid that some gay person is going to affect them in some way i know plenty of gay couples and there just like most people except they dont like people from the opposite sex in my opinion if gays stick to them selevs why should anyone care what they do to each other??? -
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No persecution. I'm not the type.
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in that same space, was eating seafood, weaving two different types of cloth together and sacrificing 2 pigions after each menstral cycle stated?
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Say, what you be smokin'anyway?
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Don't worry about it
your really christian Huh? well my thoughts... Shall we: if it ain't you you don't need to worry about it.It seems like its so hard for people to get it through there heads. if you so worried about gay sex don't have and if you don't like it don't look. -
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Who said anything about worry? And, why would I care to look? Sounds like your more concerned than me.
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lol...
mary, you really need to read leveticus all the way through before you start basing opinions on it... leveticus also talks about how it is a sin to eat seafood that lacks fins, wear clothing of two types of cloth, and quite a few other obscure things that christians conveniantly ignore... -
Jesus says so
Didn't Jesus preach love for all? acceptance? well, lets see. imagine this. you go up to Jesus. he's sitting on a rock, with all his followers around him. you say 'what do you think of gay people? should i a) stone them or b) treat them the same as anyone else? love them as my fellow man? what do YOU think he'd say. me, i reckon he'd tell you to love them. the Bible was written neither by God nor Jesus, and thus cannot be an entirely accurate presentation of their truths... -
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Your are correct, Bob the elder,. Jesus also said to the Mary Magdelan, BTW, St. Mary Magdelan, "Go, and sin no more." The mercy of God is certainly greater than ours. Our journey in life is to detach ourselves from all worldliness or love for worldly things, possessions; that which dies or more accurately is dead. Perfect love, God's love, love of God is not conjugal love. Humility, not Pride is perfect Charity and charity is perfect love. Humility is love perfected. Hell is the absence of love. Balance acts of charity against self-full pride and see for yourself the difference with regards to love. If you succeed you will now understand the entire message of the Bible. It's all about Humilit/Love; inseparable twins. God is Love.
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and that has to do with the topic... how? -
how's this biblical references only work on people who believe in the bible....and what if I don't? Other than I'm going to hell, prove to me that you're right? Also natural is a relative term, in nature you wouldn't be sitting at your computer typing or reading this, you would be mating (without marriage I might add) and either hunting or taking care of those babies...now do we really want natural? where by the way animals are often gay or bisexual... So prove to me and athiest that you're right...go On now?
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Bible reference
"love your neighbour as you love yourself"-matthew 22:29 (I think)
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Instincts and animalsVoted for by frndofyaweh.
It would be easier; if you all just clicked my profile and read through my previous posts.------but,....here goes. Evolution is theory and an illogical one at that. The catholic church is not important. All denominations suck. And God is God. The Son is the Son. Humans ARE above the animals and there are much better theories in the creation field, that explain things so much better, that evolution begins to look silly. Once you dig into it, logical science begins to appear. I study genetics as well.-----I mean this in the pollitest possible way; Look at my previous posts before you start repeating the same arguments, I and some others have already addressed, in earlier threads. Patient reading and re-reading almost always makes you second guess what you are about to write. I follow a rule to read important comments twice through, at least.
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yes....
because the world revolves around you, and we should all have known what you thought and just said "oh yah, he's gotta be right..." and i would really appriciate it if you kept theology separate from PHILOSOPHY... they are two VERY different things... and there are 100's of theology website that you can go to where you can lie to yourself as much as you want... but here, we try to use logic... -
once again, as debated in a million other threads, philosophy and theology are closely related. not saying that christianity is philosophy, just that people's religious persuasions (whether they be christian, jewish, .....hindu..... atheist....you name it) greatly influence their convictions, and therefore the two are inseparable. if you don't believe me, look at what the majority of historic philosophers have to say on the subject.
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no...
theology and philosophy are opposites.... philosophy is the persuit and/or aquiring of knowledge through the use of logic, syllogisms (in other words the connecting of two truths to arrive at a third truth), and a little bit of personal opinion... theology is the assumed truth aquired through usually unprovable theories based on the lack of knowlege... -
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Much as I might like to agree with you, you are wrong. Philosophy and Theology are not opposites; theology could even be seen as a specialized branch of philosophy.
There is not just a little bit of personal opinion in philosophy, there is a great deal: one's premises are always influenced, to some degree, by personal intellectual prejudices (as well as cultural, emotional etc.)
Science and theology might be seen as opposites (though all intellectual pursuits have some points of contact with one another); you could at least make a better case for such a statement. But philosophy is speculation on the meaning of evidence for ethics, politics, art etc.; just as theology is speculation on the meaning of evidence for the nature of the divine - and how this might relate to ethics, politics, art etc.
A. H.
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alright, lets see. God created earth in seven days, well six really since he rested on the seventh. and eve bit the apple because a snake tempted her into doing it right? well if you ask me that's just out there. snakes dont talk. oh and just to let you know, cause of all the things you seem to have studied, evolution starts at the formation of life, it does not explain it because it is not meant to. and if youi have taken any biology you would know the theory and what it explains
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GO gobuggy!
actually, I agree with gobuggy. How do we "prove" to you that being gay is wrong when we cannot use theology as a refrence? Do you want scientifc proof? ok the x chromosome and the y chromosome... ok honestly i know squat about that, but think of it this way... aren't u more susceptable to AIDs or HIV if you are gay. I know this is not about sexual intercouse, but that does play a role in gay relationships -
know-nothing!
being gay doesn't make you any more or anyless susceptable to disease... and the point of it is that there is no reason beyond theology that can prove homosexuality is wrong, therefore making it an invasion of constitutional rights to not allow them marriage rights... -
ya you got that one wrong. each person has a different immunesystem and being gay has nothing to do with having a weak one. HIV was _assosiated_ with gay people because that is who they found it in _first_. nothing more, nothing less.
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No, homosexual people have a higher rate of HIV positive constituents by ratio than straight people, whether because they usually lead more promiscuous lives (statistically), or whatever it is.
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You don't have toVoted for by joshuada.
You don't have to PROVE that being gay is wrong... It just is... That is all there is to it
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brilliant...
oh, wow... that convinced me... but one problem, you DO have to PROVE being gay is wrong, because if you dont then there's really no reason WHY being gay is wrong, so until you can PROVE it, you can shove your close-mindedness where the sun dont shine... k? -
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HAHA!
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umm... i THINK you were being sarcastic...
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It just goes against the grain... Therefore... It is.
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got logic?
because everything, throughout history, that has been "against the grain," has been wrong... like inter-racial relationships... or the reform of the catholic church... ... and you know what...? everything else that doesn't meet YOUR exact specifications of "right" and "wrong" is bad... because you are all-powerfull and all-knowing... ... ... ... (sarcasm) ... ... please... before you make yourself look like an even bigger ass-tard... STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD... and get a hobby other than condeming others to hell... -
Actualy, You just might.
For being gay to "Just be wrong", You WILL need to prove one of the folowing: 1.Either Being Gay is intrinsicly wrong. (You still have to prove it is wrong) or 2. That the position of homosexuality caries the burden of proof. (This being more difficult, you might as well prove homosexuality wrong.) Nothing can possibly be "Just wrong". There must be a reason, and there must be a suporting structured belief behind it. -
is that so...
If You don't have to prove that is wrong and can just say that all there is to it then any one cna also say that being gay isn't wrong and thats all there is to it. It can go both ways without proof and evidence. If you can just say it and the reason be because it just is then anyone could make anything what they want...because it just is... -
Yeah...
I'm still waiting for today's Einstein to find a logical reason to how gay marraige is violent and hurting society; just like black-white marraiges did barely even fourty years ago.
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Right or WrongVoted for by Afdsadkasdfs.
In accordance with what the beginner of this topic said; yes, because it's in the Bible. That's why some people think being homosexual is wrong. Well, not exactly, I'll clarify it in a second here. But basically, Christians think killing is wrong because it's in the Bible. Muslims think refusing to observe Ramadan(sp) is wrong because it's in the Quran. There isn't such a thing as right or wrong, just what people think of things. In our society, slavery is wrong. In Roman society, a society that was truly great during its time, slavery was fine. Right and wrong don't really exist, it's all out opinions. You can't honestly prove to someone that murder is wrong; you just THINK it's wrong to end human life because that's what your society brings you up with. In fact, societies have been doing that for so long, that now some people are literally incapable of killing because they believe it to be so incrediblly 'wrong'.
Back to what I was saying about being homosexual being wrong in the Bible; it isn't. The act of homosexuality is considered a sin, but having a homosexual mind isn't wrong at all by their standards. There are just a lot of Christians that don't know enough about their own religion to realise this.
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thank you!
thats the kind of clear-thinking this world needs more of... -
EH
actually there is something in there about keeping a clean mind, I don't know where, but I know there is. My dad is a Bible Nazi (LOL) and he used to tell me that even impure thoughts about any sin (such as fantasizing about sex or murder) is sinful. Regardless of if it is a heterosexual or homosexual fantasy. I'm not argueing with you, just throwing something in there! By the way, the Bible contains 6 admonishments against homosexuals and 362 admonishments against heterosexuals...hmmm.... -
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Wow...
And if you weren't born, your soul would've found it into another body.
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good quote
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to the heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." Lynn Lavner -
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the bible has more warnings in it against usury than homosexuality, and yet we still tolerate bankers.
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The thing that is constant in the majority of species is survival, if you choose not to fight for life then you will die. Which is why the need to mate is so strong in every living thing. It helps keep your genes alive. Imagine if your forefathers were gay then you would not be here,
being gay is the same as committing suicide,
you are ending the line, so selfish indeed
all the people before fought so hard and you throw it to the trash, just because I though about robbing a bank does not make me a bank robber. -
Well
My reason for not killing is because I don't like seeing people in pain. And people like life. And I have a vendetta against death.
That's me; not anyone or anything else (*cough cough SOCIETY cough* ) speaking. -
How many times does the Bible talk about me.
I could say, hey. The bible talks more about murdering than homosexuality. That means it's a worse sin. No. All sins are equal, right?
Also, my main point. The sermon on the mount. Jesus said that anyone who lusted after a woman committed adultery in his heart. he's guilty of adultery, get that. The heart has everything to do with being Christian. I think you're close. In my opinion, homosexuality is a complex. Please don't get offended. It's just an opinion. -
i think something people often confuse, is religious marriage and legal marriage. Religious marriage is up to the individual church, and if they don't believe in Gay marriage, then they sohludn't be forced to perform it, that is up to them. The real issue, is a gay couple being legally recognised by the state therby giving the same legal benefits as hetrosexual couples. That is legal in this country, and i believe in america also. That is all that matters. Allowing the government though to interfere in the Church would be as grotesque as allowing the church to interfere with the government.
So in summation, Civil Partnership is a basic right for people, but Church marriage of Homosexuals should be left firmly in the eyes of the church.
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ExpensiveThinker
September 30, 2005
pnktrky
April 9, 2007
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gene88
August 27, 2007
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yes
i thought so, too, when my friends sent this to me. scary, isn't it?October 4, 2007
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Mujtaba H Zaidi
September 30, 2005
ExpensiveThinker
June 1, 2007
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September 30, 2005
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Hilarious
I've seen this before. I wish so many people could see this one...October 2, 2005
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.
Hmmm, well I'm Canadian, and here we've legalized homosexual marriage. And as far as I'm concerned there aren't more gays than there were. And perhaps everything you've just stated up there is rubbish (even though it sounds so utterly ironic, it maddens me). #1 is just plain irrational. What IS a true American? How should you know? #2 is not scientifically correct. One isn't gay because they want to be gay, but because of chemicals and hormones in their brains. #3 is the one that makes most sense. #4 is disgusting, given that I'm a feminist. Oh and my aunt, who is caucasian, is married to a black African. #5 is unclear. What's there so meaningful about straight marriage? It's just love and gays can love too. #6 is another example of a traditional mindset. When I'm older, I plan on adopting, whether I'm fertile or impotent. I'll go get myself a little chinese girl because they're way too crammed over there. #7 is entirely false. Utterly stupid. Where do you get your information from? The bible? #8 is also false. I'm the living proof that #9 is not true. I only have a mother. My father is somewhere, I don't really care. And have I succeeded? Hmm well I think so. I'm 16 (still alive, yes!) with a 90% above average, a good home, good friends, a good physical health. And lastly, #10 just adds emphasis on all this irony you've been pointing out. I'm not even sure if you mean all of what you've said. But it's illogical all the same. None of these are valid.Kazrith
October 3, 2005
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Energizer Bunny
October 3, 2005
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Crazyhead
October 5, 2005
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say who-what?...
.... ummm... axelle.. that was a little something called sarcasm... i, myself, am bisexual... i think gay marriage should be as legal, as binding, and as treasured as straight marriage... and i think the christian church needs to get it's nose out of the entire worlds business... i think that canada is an example of what happens when you run a country well... a few little facts... ---------------------------------------------- Canada: hasn't been in a war for who-knows how long. America: averages a MAJOR war ever 10-20 years ---------------------------------------------- canada: gay marriage is legalized because the gov't doesn't shove it's beliefs down peoples throats. america: has george bush....October 5, 2005
This is retarded...
So much of this is wrong - in many ways. People don't choose to be gay, it's becuase of the balance of chemicals in the brain. And it doesn't matter how many parents/people it takes to raise a child - who ever said the single -parented kids grow up to be unsuccessful? That makes me barf. A kid who's Dad died when he was like 2, (He's moved away from our skool) Has a better (paying) job than I have or can keep. Where did u find this stuff, or'd u make it up?Crazyhead
October 6, 2005
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sarcasm much?
i was using sarcasm... gay marriage is as much a right as straight marriage... i am bi... could you PLEASE read my other 2-3 comments to people who took me seriously, where i explain the sarcasm, before acting like i have offended you?April 9, 2007
Kazrith
April 11, 2007
GinryuStargazer
October 8, 2009
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October 6, 2005
My thoughts on your veiws
Well looking through your philosophy i saw some things that intrigued me as weird let's go through them 1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning. [Oh very funny sarcasm, but just because it's a man and a man or a woman and a woman, it's unnatural?] 2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall. [Again with the sarcasm? Gay people are not encouraging people to be gay, nor have they ever tried to.] 3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. [Wow this is philosophy not your creative writing class buddy.] 4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal. [Seriously can you MAKE a reason with some real backbone?] 5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed. [Okay I'm ignoring the sarcasm i nthis one, straight marriages are what people see as "right", look at the gay world. They may DESPISE the community that hates them, but have they ever hurt them for getting married the "right" way?] 6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children. [Ha ha very funny about the orphanages thing, not really. The world is already becoming over populated in areas, i think the world can deal with a few less children.] 7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children. [My parents are straight, they didn't raise me straight :)] 8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America. [Wow a sarcasm that is actually almost a reality, yes it seems the US is begining to get the bible into the gov. more and more, I'll hand that sarcasm to a small truth, but NO WHERE in the BIBLE does it state that two men should not marry.] 9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children. [Not true, there are gay couples who have children, and the children are raised just fine, no learning disabilities, sure they may get picked on at school, but if society would accept the gay community, then we wouldn't have that trouble would we? :)] 10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans [Well another sarcasm that is close to the sweet truth. But why would it change the foundation? There are getting to be less and less open gays in this world, that pretty soon none of them are going to be open, and all that they stood for will be gone because of OUR SOCIETY.] Well just some of my points. Gay marriage IS NOT WRONG. And I don't just say that cause I myself am one. I say this because we are all human beings, whether we are gay, bi, straight, transexual, etc. But we just love a bit different. So why not let us live OUR life and you can live yours just like we gay people have let you straight people live without trouble. ~TetCrazyhead
October 6, 2005
can you people read?
jeezuz! if you havn't noticed i have said MULTUPLE times that it is PURE SARCASM!!!! i am bi, i think gay marriage is a RIGHT as much as straight marriage... can you PLEASE try to read what i say before you get all butt-hurt?wurzalgnu
October 26, 2009
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this is so funny
It really reconfirms the statement that americans do not understand the concept of sarcasm, even a few people have said for example something like "ha ha sarcasm very funny, but I don't like what you're saying..." and then launch into a tirade about each of the statements you wrote.Myself I think fair play to bring sarcasm into the debate, but you should be aware that most people who use this site are Americans and it seems most of them don't understand sarcasm, even if they have heard of the word!
October 6, 2005
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dont be stupid
gay marrages arnt wrong just because someone thinks differently than you doesnt make it wrong and isnt the exchange of different ideas not philosophy so tell me this if you want to be pilosophers and not keep an open mind then your not a philosopher your just a crazed maiac that has to control how everyone around him thinks and acts gay marrages have lot of good aspects to the one the government could make lots of money by selling permits and certificates two it would help cut down on violence if more people looked at gays with an open mind then they would see that there is nothing to worry about the typical american in my experiences fears what he doesnt understand he gets mad because he can not understand it then takes his anger out on it as if beating it will help him to understand it better but when it doesnt it just gets worse and worse till the violence doesnt stop i suggest that if you dont wanna keep an open mind to all causes of every topic that you should leave this website and find people who agree with you and not people who want to broaden their horizons with the ideas and logic of others. gays are just as persecuted as were the blaks and the jews. if we can not learn from history what good is it for us to learn it??? there is noo good from creating teh same problem and putting a new face on it we should just acept everyone for who they are and if you dont like it just stay away from them dont persecute them. just remember the golden rule "Do unto others as you would have Done unto you"October 8, 2005
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You're too right
Wow that is just great. that one had me laughing.Crazyhead
October 8, 2005
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...can you read?
if youve read ANYTHING IVE POSTED!!!! you would have seen that this is SARCASM!!! why are so many of you people taking me seriously?October 23, 2005
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this is kinda serious
i understand this is sarcastic, but it makes a really valid point and sortof describes america. this is really funny, but i can't help but see this as a way to actually prove that gay marrige isn't wrong. okay, i really have no idea what i'm sayingNovember 5, 2005
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Love It!
heh I love that people are taking this seriously and at least standing up for what they believe.. but come on people! its obvious satire. I love it. Thank you for sharing :) Blessed BeCrazyhead
November 13, 2005
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thank you...
finally someone stopped being high-strung enough to realize that it is an OBVIOUS satyr... thank you...December 12, 2005
wurzalgnu
October 26, 2009
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get a dictionary
and look up the word sarcasmDecember 15, 2005
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Haha!
Kudos to you! This is very funny. *shamefaced* With the first line I thought you were serious!December 16, 2005
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I hope you dont mind
I copied and pasted that into an e-mail and sent it to everyone on my contact list... Im pro gay rights also, i myself am straight, but im not so sure that i have any straight friends! lol anyway the sarcasm woven through this whole peice was beautiful, Keep spreading the wordDecember 18, 2005
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This is amazing!!
More poeple need to read thisJanuary 1, 2006
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January 2, 2006
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Nicely said
I can't believe people are actually taking this seriously, i mean look at this one "2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall." - obviously you wouldn't believe that, no one is that stupid, the sarcasm is so obvious and it is very effective in getting across the veiw that homophobia is wrong. This was very well said, and made me chuckle, i like it alot. there is nothing wrong with being, gay, bi or straight, you love who you love... and im 100% straight... im just not ignorant enough to judge people by their choice of partner, i don't see the point in marriage at all, for gay people or straight people, but if you want to, anyone should be allowed to marry the person they love. Sorry for rambling on lol... very well put. Down without you xJanuary 6, 2006
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LOL
i don't share your opinion, but i appreciate your wit. this is funny :))petethemeat
January 14, 2006
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Poor old crazy head
Its a pity that some people do not recognise the sarcasm. In a forum such as this you shouldnt really be required to explain yourself after your point. Come on guys we are sharper than that!March 11, 2006
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March 14, 2006
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Awesomeness
This is awesome! I love your sarcsm in this!March 24, 2006
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June 12, 2006
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Hehehehe
Oh sarcasm makes me a happy chica. But I agree with it all. Oh the irony.February 22, 2007
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Concerned
...April 6, 2007
Crazyhead
September 25, 2007
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the way you phrase this makes it sound like your having some issues...
i dont know if you meant it like that, but this kind of self-denial and deprication is exactly the sort of thing that makes me bitter towards the church...
April 9, 2007
Crazyhead
July 30, 2007
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... doom pickles
if this is what you TRUELY believe... then i honestly hope that darwinism wipes you off the face of the planet before you ever get a chance to reproduce...because if you did ever manage to reproduce i really believe that the IQ of the entire planet will drop at least 1 point due to the overwhelming amount of ignorance present in that comment...
April 9, 2007
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well done
until I read the bit at the bottom I thought you were a stupid bigot, but now I realise it was actually sattire it is quite amusing and does highlight the extremes of the arguments against homosexualitypwincessovfantasy
August 25, 2007
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pwincessovfantasy
August 25, 2007
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pwincessovfantasy
August 25, 2007
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September 4, 2007
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dna, darvin era?
What is animal? That you taught recently in "biology 81"?You should learn more about fossils, biology, aminoacids, DNA.. to see there is no proof that humans are animals.
likewhatitis100
September 23, 2007
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Crazyhead
September 25, 2007
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*points at me alone, sunflower, and spanner* SEE!!!!? you see what i mean!!!? ahhhg....
this is why we need to keep our history books nearer the truth...
Crazyhead
October 17, 2007
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it is about the LACK of proving it WRONG!
because if it cannot be proven wrong, regaurdless to be proven right, then where is the harm of allowing it?
October 23, 2007
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Kazrith
October 24, 2007
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look at physics and the definition of light and space!
gene88
November 17, 2007
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actually...
that's incorrect. HIV hit the gay population the hardest due to a great increase of sexual activity and that's why it is associated with homosexuals.November 20, 2007
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November 21, 2007
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www.narth.com
Crazyhead
March 1, 2008
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normality is an illusion created during WW2 and the cold war to "protect" us from the "commies" that were hiding under our beds...
and, you know what.... lets talk about being "NORMAL" for a second shall we.... lets dispell the whole concept of "normal" always being a good thing...
in early bugs bunny cartoons it was quite "NORMAL" for bugs to appear in black-face....
it was quite "NORMAL" in the dark ages and medieval period, to be executed if you were not the right religion for the area that you inhabited....
in nazi germany it was quite "NORMAL" for some of the most sadistic things ever carried out to happen on a daily basis....
normal does not equal good...
the status quo shouldn't always be filled...
sometimes you need to take your eyes off archeic tradition and think about the good of the people around you...
regaurdless of the bible saying being gay is "wrong"... it also says above all else to "love thine brother"
GinryuStargazer
October 8, 2009
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OH MY GOD!
You just COMPLETELY made my day; that is the hardest I've laughed in weeks!!GinryuStargazer
October 8, 2009
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That's Like What I Question
What's more evil; to be evil but ignore it and be good or act evil but not truly be evil?Hmm...
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