Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more; it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Donald Crosby writes that the source of modern nihilism paradoxically stems from a commitment to honest intellectual openness. "Once set in motion, the process of questioning could come to but one end, the erosion of conviction and certitude and collapse into despair"
"I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength. It is possible. . . " Nietzsche
How will I overcome this? Are there any other nihilists out there who are happy to continue to exist? Why?
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This might help33% Voted for by christopheshea, Approaching Autumn, grant, to-each-his-own.
By being aware of nihilism, you are not a nihilist. If you say you are, you don't know the definition of it. Nihilsim seeks out its own destruction, it exists in order to extinguish itself. Nihilists are those who seek their own destruction, perhaps they do it on purpose, perhaps not, but the one common thing among nihilists, they don't know why they're doing what they're doing. It's basically a term to describe the decline of western society/religion/philosophy. Everyone claims Nietzsche is the father of nihilism, how could he, one person is not responsible for such degredation. Nietzsche was only the first to see it, he brought it to everyone's attention, and the price of that? He was blamed for it, he was said to have preached it, to have embraced it, yet he combatted it with every book, every line, every word of his core being. Nihilsim shouldn't be thought of as something "cool", it should be despised, and those who are nihilists, don't know they are. If you want to become a nihilist, become a christian.
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bahVoted for by a woman to love.
Why praise an idea that just centers in destruction of self ? It's morbid and quite nonsensical in my opinion . Instead praying for this catastrophe to happen ,why not make positive contributions to change the course of things . One positive action can make a difference and if the action of one is joined together by the actions of many that in itself is a major modification
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...Voted for by Crazyhead.
finally i find some other nihilists...
i too am oft' pained by the want for a purpose...
i have found my purpose in music. though i still find myself searching for something more...
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True nihilism...Voted for by Farseer.
true nihlism is something that I've never understood. It is the belief that nothing exists. Now by my reckoning (even taking into account the possibility of Descartes' "evil demon" theory) I exist, everything I experience may be false, but in order for me to experience them, I must exist. I don't understand how someone could truly believe that they don't exist, and if they believe that they do exist then they aren't strictly speaking nihilists. It's something I don't think I'll ever understand but each to their own I guess.
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chief good of mankind = pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of painVoted for by happysassycassie.
This makes my continued existence pointless when we need to endure times of suffering. When I have a good job, I'm in love with a wonderful man, and my health is great and life is good, I am more than content to continue existing. However when my health fails me or life becomes more of a burden than a joy, how am I to find a reason to continue?
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Woooo!!! (In response to the first responder)Voted for by to-each-his-own.
Finally, someone who understands the simple complexity of one's own spiritual irony! I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. However, I do think that if we are to conquer nihilism (human nature, in other words) we must accept that every religion is innocent. I agree with you about Christianity, but in my opinion (and I'm not saying you said this) hate the game, not the player. In fact, it isn't necessarily religion that causes nihilism, but people's INTERPRETATIONS of religion. Obviously, beliefs are necessary. Christians aren't too blame, for God is dead. The only people to blame are the blamers: absolutists, in other words. If we are truly to enjpy our lives and practice what we preach, then we must not deny that EVERYONE is innocent. The world is a place for gods, not one God. People know this now, but they choose to deny it for the sake of meaninglessly pessimistic tradition. Genuine Christians are not only smart, but spiritually and mentally healthy. Again, to understand Nietzsche and philosphy in general fully, we must hate him as well as agree with him. It is the oxymoronic climax of humanity's plot: we must MAKE ourselves meaningful. I personally could be classified as an atheist, but my passionate belief is in naturism. I believe that there IS something out there and there IS something that started out starting...but, as Nietzsche would put it, until mankind knows what that is, he must stop all self denial and realize the importance of being one's own God. In other words, I believe that nature and life are too beautiful to watse on meaninless "nausea". Are they REALLY stopping us from enjoying OUR good time? The hell they are! Besides, just because we don't believe something doesn't mean it's wrong: it's fascinating, actually. It makes life...interesting. Philosophy is about froming your own ideas by interpreting those of others' and forming them to fit your own. Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche was a brilliant man...but he was an idiot. :]
You see, the difference here is that we're OKAY with admitting ours and the folly that unites us all. THIS is that age! The only people that are limited are limiting themselves and that should never affect our knowledge of life's questions, beauties, filths, peace, hostility, creativity, potential, ups, downs, and sideways journeys. I love life beyond a limit that even I could ever imagine and that's the whole point to (Nietzsche's) and all free-spirited thinking. The difference between us and religion is that we make our OWN religion in the form of scientific self-worship collaborated by the influences of many thousands of generations of bliss and depression...but there is beauty in both. We are atheists. Not antichrists. :]
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Popular baloney about nihilismVoted for by Jeezmon.
Nihilism was originally a Russian movement. It didn't consist of "believing in nothing", but rather in radical skepticism: taking nothing on faith. In that sense, Descartes was a nihilist: he was determined to question everything that could be questioned, until he arrived at the conclusion that there was only one thing he couldn't question, and that was his own existence. Hence "I think, therefore I am". Or the modern version: "I think I think, therefore I think I am".
The idea that nihilists beieve in nothingness, emptiness, destruction, etc., was a slander spread against the original nihilists by the Tsarist regime, and that slander got into the language, pre-empting what the word was intended to mean. Turgenev was one of the slanderers (Fathers and Sons, I think).
But then this slanderous notion got a life of its own, and started attracting mostly young people full of angst, and we ended up with goths and the like.
I don't have a problem with nihilism and life. I find life wonderful and mysterious, and I feel no need to go looking for the cheap sense of certainty that people call faith. There's lots we don't know, and will never know: big deal. The faith nuts don't know it either, they just fool themselves.
The meaning of life in a meaningless universe? Meaning is a human construct. We crave it, we create it. The universe is whatever you want it to be. Innate meaninglessness equals innate freedom.
Why continue to exist? Well - why not? Out of curiosity. Because it's fun. Because we want love, and love means nothing only in tennis. Ultimately, because we want to, need to, have a powerful craving to exist. And if life becomes so intolerable that thanatos overpowers libido? Then we have the freedom to end it. And again - why not?
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Nihlism vs ExistenceVoted for by decoratedemergency.
Nihlism is more than just a seperation from existence, or just the idea that nothing exists, though that technically is the true theory and definition of the word nihlist. From what I have come to gather from literature, philosophy, and response movements is that nihlism is not exactly the rejection of existence, but the idea that existence can not be glorified or happy seeing as there is no reason for the happiness or for the want of living to continue. It is a seperation of one's desire to become happy and the taking on of an extremely dismal, yet safe, being in today's world.
I personally agree with many of the nihlist ideas, including the thought that man's sole purpose of life is to suffer, and there is nothing really that can change that ultimatum. This is shown through many Russin literature from the early 1900's towards the collapse of the cold war. One great combination of existentialism and nihlism is Crime and Punishment (Dostoyevsky) if someone wants a complete view of the working life of a nihlist.
Also the perception of existence in the nihlist mind could differ from the common conception today. For instance, the nihlist of the 1940's could see existence as having a purpose in life that gives someone a reason to live, or the thought that a happy life could be existence. So, in a nutshell, the typical nihlists in the 40's could be talking about existence in the idea of a good life, or as something worth experiencing.
I guess though, that that clarification can never be given, but seems more logical than the idea that nothing exists or that nothing can exist in the sense of today's denotation of the word now.
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NIHILISM vs NIKHILISM
Nihilism is nothingness and Nikhilism is the theory of one whom i am researching for pure love. Nihilism is carelessly Nothingness and Nikhilism is carefully Nothingness. in both ways Nihilism is not only what Turugnev coined but i experienced in the OCEAN OF LIFE. BOTH are ABYSS!
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grant
July 31, 2006
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terminology
Well, nihilism (like any theory, philosophy, analysis, categorisation, labelling, measuring) can only be bullshit because none can be real. These are all just terms invented by the mind. The mind that is trying to rationalise the irrational. The mind alone (without any wisdom of the body) will always find life irrational or broken in order to rationalise or fix. This is only because the mind wants sole control over phenomenal existance. One only has to witness the mind alone (or the lonely, separate mind) creating ecological disasters. Its the mind that wants orgasm, result; over population. Experience is not a mind only sensation. The mind only analyses experience with noise (sounds emitted to form words or terms). So, what is real? terminolgy developed to label experience, or, experience itself? It's (literally) a "NO BRAINER".July 31, 2006
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Re: terminology
I think the point of this site is to put experience into terms, for this reality of words is all we have to connect to one another. I like that, "It's (literally) a 'NO BRAINER'." It is absurd for each of us to be using terminology to describe experience, but it's absurd to be using a computer to preach, to rant, everything we do is absurd. I agree with what you say, turn off your mind, and you will truly experience. Let's assume we do that, but there's no way to tell anybody about it using terms and words, so this irrational reality is all there is for each of us to connect, to sort it out and come to some sort of understanding. I absurdly partake.grant
August 1, 2006
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rant? preach? How about, discuss?
Can it be preaching or ranting if one is only describing an organs function? One doesnt need to "turn off one's mind" in order to experience. In order for the mind to be part of experience is to be an "open mind" rather than a turned off one. Basically, memory is what is used to analise experience because to analise is to compare. To compare the present with the past. If one considers that reality can only be the present moment then memory is only a corpse of a previous experience. As soon as one is comparing or measuring/analising, one can not be truly living in the present. All this analising stuff is fine. But what is philosophy, religion, science or the arts actually all about anyway. I consider that these disciplines are, in fact, fields of inquiry (for the inquiring mind). In other words they are all ways of questioning. They aren't answers. But they are all seeking the same answer which is "what actually is life and/or the purpose of it." They are searching for the "unknown" only to make it "known". I consider the mind to be "turned off" as apposed to "open" when one feels they are their mind and only rely on analysis as a way of life. This is typical human activity where one's present is interrupted by reactivity that has it's foundation in past conditioning and planning or worry for the future. As your typical unenlightened being I am acutely aware that I am this most of the time. It's called being subject to one's emotional reactivity. What makes me aware of this is the ocassional "wake up" experience when the mind either chats away in the background or shuts up completely (still operates, but stops internal dialogue). When this happens the world looks and feels like a different place. I think when you say that "there is no way to tell anybody without terms" about "real" experience is correct because it is actually beyond description. All we can describe is what it is not. And that is all I've attempted here. It is like how the colour green is every other colour but green. I have no expectation of success. I think that if one identifies oneself as a philosopher then it is like identifying oneself as a believer. Philosophy or religion are just signposts pointing in a direction. Identifying with or worshipping the sighposts is only a comfortable gesture. Another similar analogy for this comfort of false knowledge would be "to remain sucking on the finger instead of looking at where it may be pointing." This is the problem with e.g jesus or nietzsche worshippers. If one feels defensive about these ideas this would only support what i'm talking about. The brain seeking only a comfortably predictable orbit. The present IS the unknown because it is always in the state of the "yet to be known". Once it is known it has already been consigned to memory. Corpses of experiences. Dead. I dont know anything. There is nothing to know. (once it is known it is already dead and who wants to know the dead?)August 1, 2006
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September 15, 2006
Wooooo!!!
Finally, someone who understands the simple complexity of one's own degredation! Dude, I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. However, I do think that if we are to conquer nihilism (human nature, in other words) we must accept that every religion is innocent. I agree with you about Christianity, but in my opinion (and I'm not saying you said this) hate the game, not the player. In fact, it isn't necessarily religion that causes nihilism, but people's INTERPRETATIONS of religion. Obviously, beliefs are necessary. Christians aren't too blame, for God is dead. The only people to blame are the blamers: absolutists, in other words. If we are truly to enjpy our lives and practice what we preach, then we must not deny that EVERYONE is innocent. The world is a place for gods, not one God. People know this now, but they choose to deny it for the sake of meaninglessly pessimistic tradition. Genuine Christians are not only smart, but spiritually and mentally healthy. Again, to understand Nietzsche and philosphy in general fully, we must hate him as well as agree with him. It is the oxymoronic climax of humanity's plot: we must MAKE ourselves meaningful. I personally could be classified as an atheist, but my passionate belief is in naturism. I believe that there IS something out there and there IS something that started out starting...but, as Nietzsche would put it, until mankind knows what that is, he must stop all self denial and realize the importance of being one's own God. In other words, I believe that nature and life are too beautiful to watse on meaninless "nausea". Are they REALLY stopping us from enjoying OUR good time? The hell they are! Besides, just because we don't believe something doesn't mean it's wrong: it's fascinating, actually. It makes life...interesting. Philosophy is about froming your own ideas by interpreting those of others' and forming them to fit your own. Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche was a brilliant man...but he was an idiot. :] You see, the difference here is that we're OKAY with admitting ours and the folly that unites us all. THIS is that age! The only people that are limited are limiting themselves and that should never affect our knowledge of life's questions, beauties, filths, peace, hostility, creativity, potential, ups, downs, and sideways journeys. I love life beyond a limit that even I could ever imagine and that's the whole point to (Nietzsche's) and all free-spirited thinking. The difference between us and religion is that we make our OWN religion in the form of scientific self-worship collaborated by the influences of many thousands of generations of bliss and depression...but there is beauty in both. We are atheists. Not antichrists. :]April 5, 2007
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