There are 2 choices, 5 votes for Shivers' debate

Really why argue, when love and emotion are not even are decisions to be making?

Can you really say that you would never be tempted by love enough to fall for your own sex, or even consider yourself powerful enough to control that?

• We dont choose love. Like any other walking, breathing person in the world we dont choose how we feel, nor do you.

  I mean, it makes me angry almost that people can sit here and tell another human being that how they 'feel' is wrong. I mean, the logical sense? Since when has feelings, emotions and passion ever been determined by the mind, nor what sense is it to believe that one degrading comment would actually change a heart.

  I barely even see a distinction between the decision to love a man or a woman as the decision to chose the boyfriend or the respectable suited buisness man. Each and everyone of us has been stuck in dead end realtionships or lusts at one point in our lifes and even then against our better 'judgement' we didnt turn away. To the same degree, if you imagine, and be really true to your heart when you do, if the person you loved most in the world woke up tomorrow the complete opposite sex. Sure it would be a shocker but there is no way that we possess any authority enough to turn love off like a light switch.

  Love im afraid is and never has been systamatic, and any person who thinks it is can surely never have really felt its custody. I could stick the most homophobic idiot, we'll just say his name is Joe for this purpose, in a dark room with a lovely young man and train him to talk femine enough to fool 'certain, and confident' Joe. Now these two hit it off, I mean really sparks all over the place and Joe blissfully unaware becomes more and more inticed by our lovely man. Now you tell me where the logical explanation in that is?

  I just think its time people stop pretending they are God, and start remembering that despite their best efforts fighting whats inside is a waste of your life. If we all lived by the rule book what love, what sacrifice, what excitement and moreover what freedom would be left in this already tarnished world.

  Humanity is offered freedom for relgion, to preach what are sometimes questionable ideas and beliefs, yet allowed freedom to them nevertheless. Unjust then isnt it that we dare not question relgion in anyway without a backlash or anger and disgust.

  I ask all those people that believe they are so certain to think of love, how far powerless they have been to it then really consider what CHOICE homosexuality really is?

  80%  Voted for by Shivers, Weydon, IridescentRose, aria94.

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  • 
    Kazrith
    April 13, 2006
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    good point.
  • 
    bob2314
    April 13, 2006
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    good folks on boath sides

    this is how the media has potraied this debate sence stonewall ie. the queer gean vs. choice. look at how thay potray us eather we are poofy fags or butch harley riding lezbos. all thay want to do is sell ad time. pride month is comeing up watch and see if all you see on the news are just the protesters. we are at fault too we dont take ourselves seriously sometimes.or we go too far in makeing our point giving the media more ammo. i don't think most christians give a care if we marrie it's just a few looney radicals. phelps is an exception he is dangerious he seams to be in the prosses of one uping himself. i hope someone in the gov. watching him.
  • 
    Makessenseright
    April 15, 2006
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    I don't want to judge you, totally not my place, your logic is somewhat flawed however. First of all I think we can control our feelings. Not directly, but what we feed our mind will come out. Watch violence and we become angry more often, etc. Also when we start to feel something, like anger, you can either feed it with thoughts of other things the other person has done to you etc, or we can work on calming our feelings. Even if we can't control our feelings, we are still responsible for our actions. Just because I got extremly angry at someone does not give me permission to harm him. Just because I feel fluffy and "in love" doesn't mean I'm going to pursue a relationship. At this stage in my life I don't want a relationship. And guess what, the feeling goes pretty quick if you don't act on it. Warning: I'm switching from logic to personal beliefs. I believe that homosexuality is a sin. Not having the desire, but acting on it. I often have the desire to have sex, but I believe that premarital sex is a sin, so I restrain myself. I do not believe that homosexuality is any worse or than any other sin, lying, stealing, etc. I also am totally against any sort of anti-homosexuality demonstation. Christians are extremely hypocritical on this point. We'll accept all manner of crooks with the hope that if they accept Jesus the rest will fall into place. When it comes to homosexuality however, we think the person should fix their "problem" before they seek God. ARG, it's stupid and embarassing. The only thing Christian should be know for is love and acceptance, and any Christian that is demonstating these traits really has to consider if they really are Christians. Anyway, pick this post apart, I'd love to hear what you think.
  • • endsofbread
      March 20, 2007
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      very well said

      i agree completely
  • 
    Weydon
    April 15, 2006
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    "Watch violence and we become angry more often, etc" WHAT? I agreed with most of what you were saying, but I watch violence fairly often and I'm pretty laid back. "At this stage in my life I don’t want a relationship. And guess what, the feeling goes pretty quick if you don’t act on it." Ha, that's true. But it's also easy to THINK you're going to say "I just won't act on it" but instead creat a WB teen drama episode of dramatic love. Just wanted to note that you have to ACTUALLY decide to just not do anything. Plus, I'm more or less at the same stage right now, at least in the sense of serious relations. Just wanted to ask: Am I the only one who finds it EXTREMELY frustrating when the majority of the people in our society are gung-ho on looking for a classical long-term relationship right off the bat?! "I believe that homosexuality is a sin. " Which is why you sort of equate being responsible enough to hold back your emotions of anger with holding back your emotions of love and affection (just with someone of the same gender). We seem to agree in that while we can't control how we feel, we need to be responsibile for (and are more than capable of controling) much of our actions. Where we mostly differ is when it is appropriate to do so--my morality is based more upon where the harm is, while yours is on what you've been told is a sin.
  • 
    Kazrith
    April 17, 2006
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    weydon - you took the words right out of my mouth
  • 
    Makessenseright
    April 17, 2006
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    About the violence, Weydon, that's a trend, not EVERY person will fit into that trend, but statistically the more you watch violence the more violent you will be. Personal traits and a host of other stuff affect it as well though. "my morality is based more upon where the harm is, while yours is on what you’ve been told is a sin. Exactly!!! That's what the whole debate is all about. Logic really doesn't have all that much to do with the homosexuality debate, unless through logic we can deside on a common view of morality. Which people have tried for thousands of years, but we can't, so we just have to agree to disagree, because we can't do anything more. I could tell you all about what the Bible says, you could explain to me exactly what you believe, but without an objective truth that we both agree on what's the point? The only point I was trying to make was that emotion ARE under your control, you ARE responsible for your actions.
  • • 
      Kazrith
      April 17, 2006
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      oh please dont! we have done this countless times, trust me, tempers flare, religion i think is even more contraversial than homosexuality
    • • 
        Weydon
        April 18, 2006
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        Haha, Amen to that.
    • 
      Weydon
      April 18, 2006
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      True, but I keep a mild debate going in the slight hope I can reach someone else. I used to be fairly strong from the Christian perspective, but through much INTERNAL debate found it to be too flawed. I embraced the ideals of equality and fairness only to be butting heads with me teachers on issues of misogyny and homophobia, not to mention many other things I just couldn't comprehend. "The only point I was trying to make was that emotion ARE under your control, you ARE responsible for your actions." Agreed.
  • 
    Makessenseright
    April 20, 2006
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    The two biggest arguments against Christianity are 1. The Church 2. Christians!!! Yeah people in the name of Jesus have done the worst things imaginable, but that does not mean that the Bible and Jesus (the real issue in Christianity) are in any way wrong. I know this is sort of off topic, but I don't think people get the distinction between Christianity and Christians.
  • Carlos The Barlos
    June 25, 2006
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    so... makessenseright however you spell that... you acknowledge the fact that humans can have 'homosexual' thoughts, but you bar that whole part of life with the shaky feeling that it's 'a sin?' what the hell got into you, man, let loose. You're all stupid, homosexuality was invented with the word. Bite me, I'm Bisexual, I'm a dyke I'm jesus on the cross I'm buddhist Hitler, what the hell does it matter to you? What, are you THREATENED? Were you BORN to DEFEND 'homosexuality'? How can you hate people who hate? go away. ps. Christianity and the bible are stupid too because it's just a lame branch of Judaism based on the fact that all you HEATHENS *oooh, shunnnnned* were REJECTED. Could it be that the whole thing is just an unimaginably clever way of organizing your universe? Could it be its own 'homosexual'?
  • jadeio
    February 6, 2007
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    love is love

    thank you for making this a point ,i'ma lesbian and i so freaking tired of people bashing on us for what?,being whe were meant to be,i wouldn't talk about them for whatever reason,and honestly i say that jesus christ at some point hat to be gay,yes some of us know about Mary Magdelene but were not sure they were involved so we can say that christ was in a some sort of homosexual realtionship.
    
    jadeio-
    
  • 
    TeChNoWC
    March 23, 2007
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    You cannot control lust with the flesh, because the flesh is lust, true. You need to affirm to a Higher cause, that being God. Otherwise, you are a deterministic being controlled by the whims of your sub-conscious mind. This just proves the point. Submit to this, and you are submitting to your own death. Will no longer has any identifiable purpose.
  • Spade-Dragon
    March 27, 2007
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    "Love does no wrong to a neighbor...therefore love is the fullfillment of the law."
    Romans 13:10
    
    That's what I live by. That's what Christians should live by, not some mistranslation in 1 Cor 6:9, not some old Holiness Code law in the dusty book of Leviticus, not some catchy Adam-and-Steve joke, but by what Jesus taught and the early Christians lived by.
    
    Why is it that my faith is the most prejudiced? Hell, if it wasn't for Jesus I'd be a Jew!! LOL.

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