There are 4 choices, 7 votes for Lucifer's debate

Truth of the Bible

  • The Bible is true

    See my comment on Lucifer's post.

    42%  Voted for by Makessenseright, Mad-Hatter, Lady Soldier.
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  • Why I'm not convinced

    Isn't it kind of funny that God, of all people, is an atheist, for atheism is the lack of belief in a higher power. In order for God to be a theist, there must be a higher power than It (throughout this passage I will refer to God as It because God is niether male nor female, making God an It).

    The story of Adam and Eve is one that I find problems with most easily. For example, it is impossible for Eve to have brought sin into the world, for tasting the forbidden fruit was a sin, meaning that sin existed in the world before she tasted the forbidden fruit. Another example is if God is omnipotent, then It would have known that Eve was going to taste the forbidden fruit and be tempted by the snake. Even though God knew this It still put the forbidden fruit and the snake in the Garden of Eden, which means It would have wanted sin in the world.

    While we are on the subject of sin, let's talk about homosexuality. Homosexuality is not a choice, but is how a person is born. If the person does not make themselves homosexual, then who does? God does. That means that if God condemns homosexuals, then shouldn't the creation of homosexuals be a sin too? So now we have God condemning Itself.

    The story of Noah's ark is the most annoying out of all the stories in the bible because it is impossible in almost every way. Here are a list of reasons why: 1) It would be impossible for Noah to collect two of every animal because there are many animals that only live at the bottom of ocean and each country has it's own unique animals. It would take more than a lifetime to collect to of every one of them. 2) It would be impossible to fit two of every animal on a boat. 3) In addition to two of every animal, Noah would also have to collect enough food and fresh water for every animal. This also would take more than a lifetime. 4) If all the animals that weren't on the ark died, how did the fish die?

    Here are just some of my ideas, but I must go now, so I may add some more to this later.

    28%  Voted for by Lucifer, babygurl03.
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  • I am atheist, but still open-minded

    I am atheist because I started to think about my religion without outside influence.

    -Adam and Eve had children and how did they make more people without committing incest, a sin. Who wrote their story also? -Also most of these stories in the bible were written by men, how many years ago? where did they go to write them? on a deserted island? Can we really trust something like that. -Miracles happen in the bible all the time. Where are those miracles now? -Jesus has a gap in his life in the bible. Where did his teen years go?

    I have so many unswered questions and until someone proves the existance of God I will remain atheist. I am open to discussing it with my Christian friends. So far they haven't convinced me, but they don't try hard. They accept me for who I am because I respect their religion.

    Also many of the rules in the bible are written by society. You aren't born with this knowledge; it is instilled in you. People usually accept it and don't think for themselves.

    I like the bible because it gives a person consequence. It makes them think before they act and it brings family together, but I still don't believe in it.

    Voted for by A Miserable Romance.
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  • Why does God exist?

    Really bland comments. I'm a worshipping Christian, for other reasons than an unwavering belief in God. An interesting question to ask is, "If God doesn't exist, why does the idea of God exist?"

    My theory of why the idea of God exists is related to the nature of the mind. We use our minds to model reality in order to predict desired future versions of reality. We then act based on those models to attain the desired future reality. In these actions there are due to limited experience, limited senses and innaccuracies in our logic, built in uncertainty about the future.

    How does the mind deal with incomplete information? It lies to you. How does it deal with unexplainable phenomena? It creates scenarios that fit based on what you know.

    Look back in history you will find that every culture has the phenomena of "spirits, demons, and/or gods." And they are used to explain phenomena that today are completely understandable through laws of physics, biology, chemistry, astronomy, and the other sciences (including psychiatry), but in those times and places the stories were based on less information and completely different cultures and norms from ours.

    Apollo drove a chariot accross the sky and ran through Hades to return again to the east at night. Blacksmithing cause iron to do miraculous things not understood, but easily reproducible. Some mystical force must be at work. So, Hephaestus was looked to as the god of smiths and fire. In every society and in every place this has occured.

    We still have the phenomena today, we call it scientific theory. At this point I'd like to introduce the concept of the "black box". The "black box" is a device in an explanation of some phenomena that you use to "magically" make the stuff you don't understand happen. The gods and spirits of mythology are "black boxes". When something like illness or the harvest timing, or the miracle of "fertility" vs. the curse of sterility could not be explained a "black box" was inserted with human intention and motive to explain the behavior.

    Since we have learned that there is little of intelligent motive in any of these phenomena. The seasons align with the planets motion around the sun the length of days, and the angle of the sun on the earth. The miracle of reproduction is well understood, and the "black boxes" that we must refer to in each of these areas grow smaller and smaller and more distant from sight.

    Over time as these barriers were pushed back by modern science, especially the Greeks and the birth of Western Civilization, it would make sense to place a single "God" above this pantheon of lesser gods and spirits. His role would naturally be author and creator of all. "The Great Spirit in the Sky"

    As we slowly drove out the daily phenomena "black box" gods, we would more and more be reduced to this one "black box". God.

    We may never ever grasp how or why this universe exists. We may never ever really understand how it is that humans can think. We will always fear the unknown. We may in fact actually die and nothing else happens after that. That is too scary, it is so scary.

    God saves us from those things. He created it, he created us. He knows where this world is going and how it all will work out. He has a purpose and that's all we need to know. And finally when I die, he'll take me home to heaven. He is the final great "black box". He is the security blanket. He must exist as an idea to save us from our uncertainty. Most of us aren't prepared or able to deal with a life that doesn't have him in it...

    I have another complete line of reasoning that leads to the creation of the idea of God, based on a subjective view of right and wrong and natural coercive controlling nature of man (based again on his need to control the environment to get the futures he wants and avoid those he fears). But, I won't go there yet. Ask if you want it!

    Voted for by mangr3n.
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