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There are 11 choices, 14 votes for joshuada's debate

The Mormon (Or Latter Day Saint Religion), What do you all think

Agreed

I am a Christian myself, and do not believe that the Mormon religion is right, but that is simply because I am a member of a different religion. I know I could be wrong, and therefore DO keep an open mind and open possibility that I will explore the Mormon faith further. I also, as have others on here, encountered many Mormon families in my life and they tend to be very happy, functioning and welcoming family units. It is difficult not to respect such a religion in spite of ones beliefs about its truth.
14% Voted for by ExistentialTheist, windrider717.
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- jfritzyb
  April 18, 2005
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  Well...
  Mormons worship angels. If you'll look in scripture, you'll see for yourself that angels are only messengers of the Lord--NOT beings to worship! They are quite legalistic--believing that if they do well in life, that they'll gain eternal life. However, Christianity states that a good life results in a relationship with Jesus--not doing good works apart from Christ. As Sadhu Singh says, a cobra can shed his skin as many times as he wants to, but it still won't change him into a different animal. In the same manner, leading a good life without Christ, won't make you worthy of heaven because you've already disobeyed ALL ten of God's commands. Therefore, you have to suffer the consequences for disobeying God's laws. And that is where Jesus comes in....feel free to contact me just in case you don't understand what He did for you....
- - ExistentialTheist
    April 26, 2005
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    I am afraid that this is a rather heavy-handed way of dismissing Mormonism. I'm not sure I like the self-righteousness and intellectual superiority contained in "contact me just in case you don't understand what He did for you". I am largely in favor of Christianity, and at times would call myself a Christian, but don't get me wrong-- I am equally appalled by presumptuous logic on both sides. I dont think Christianty should have to rely on "its says so in the Scripture that its wrong and thus is wrong". There should be more accessible answers. I "understand what He did for me".... this is not the issue. Some advice.... the way you reason will bring you no converts on a site such as this. I am probably on your side of the camp on most issues, but with that sort of logic you are effectively preaching to the choir.
  - mudgod
    December 4, 2006
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    "I dont think Christianty should have to rely on "its says so in the Scripture that its wrong and thus is wrong"."
    If you are not relying on the scriptures you can't be right. How do we know right from wrong, if not in His word? What do you think Christianity SHOULD rely on? The first three words of your above statement (I don't think), show the error in your approach. When God told Abram to leave his country, did he quibble? Did he question why? I'm sure he was happy where he was. No, the scripture says, "So Abram departed." That is why he is the father of the faithful. Look at all the examples of faith in Hebrews 11. It is all based on obedience to His word. And Jesus said that we are to live by every word of God. We cannot just pick and choose what we want to believe and still call ourselves Christian. It is all or nothing.
- grant
  December 5, 2006
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  So what?
  It's their truth. "Agreed" said so themselves in the opening comment, "in spite about one's beliefs about it's (mormons) truth". None of it is mine. I think its all bullshit along with all christianity, BUT it is THEIR truth (for "gods" sake).
- - mudgod
    December 5, 2006
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    Every bible professing "Christian", if they love the truth of God, should be following the doctrines of the bible. The whole bible. Remember, Jesus only had the old testament and referred to it in almost every other sentence. But here's the problem. Men don't love or want God's truth. They can try to rationalize it anyway they want, but if they are not keeping the law as set forth in the bible, they are wrong. And that is exactly the reason that they can't get it right. What does God say will happen if you don't love the truth?
    (2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish (should read "are perishing") ; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. )
    Because, in their unwillingness to believe the truth as written in the bible, God Himself sends them strong delusion so that they believe their own lies. And they are damned because their pleasure is in unrighteousness and not the truth. Now, you can certainly believe whatever you want to, but I for one have no respect for one who preaches the bible and does not follow it.
- Applehead
  December 5, 2006
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  I don't see a problem with repsecting anothers beliefs it doesn't mean you have to take on those ideas. Admiration for anothers beliefs may help us find the Truth.
- - mudgod
    December 5, 2006
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    "Admiration for anothers beliefs may help us find the Truth."
    
    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Adolf Hitler believe(d) the death of six million Jews was the way to truth. So much for admiration.
- Applehead
  December 5, 2006
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  Good point mudgod, I did say may. Some openness to learn is always good though.
- mudgod
  December 5, 2006
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  "It's all just truth or Bullshit."
  I could have written a thousand books and not one sentence would have been as succinct. Thank you.
- grant
  December 5, 2006
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  < There is not even an "or".
  It's all bullshit (yay).
- - mudgod
    December 6, 2006
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    millerman0362 is the poster of the original quote.
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Whats true?

I would say that in my own life Mormons have been the best people I have ever met. I even look up to one family of Mormons as being my own. For as much as I love the people, however, its extremly difficult for me not to abolish their entire religion as hogwash; but can't that really be said about any religion EVER!?

In my opinion their beliefs are lies made up by an ignorant, ill-informed, power hungry Joseph Smith, and continued by his power hungry followers. Fortunatly, the LDS have matured and "adapted" as jonesz calls it. I'd like to make a distinction between the religion of a person and the actually quality of a person. Religions preaching love for your fellow man have paritioners ready to Condemn homosexuals to an eternity of torment. This is just another example that a persons religion does not relfect thier quality as people. My drown out point is this: there are ugly aspects of the Mormon religion, but wonder and beautiful loving people.

14% Voted for by Philogos, RavensHeir11.

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To be honest...

I've only heard one side of this Mormon thing and it's all bad stuff. But I'm very open minded so if you guys could explain to me more about your religion that would be great.

14% Voted for by iamaparadox, MormonGrl27.

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blah

I think that the Mormons or LDS as you've called it are in a way the most adaptive to situations. I've been told that caffine was a no no for mormons, until they bought the Pepsi corporation. Alcohol is still a no no, but only until Jack Daniels becomes an asset, then it will be ok. Personally I think if you really study Mormonism you'll see how made up 90% of it is and hopefully you'll see the brainwashing which is occurring in your lives.

Voted for by jonesz12.

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Many Misunderstandings

Most people I know who make references to Mormons are ignorant and self-righteously so. The actual Mormons I know however are none of any of the things I’ve heard everybody else say about them. Personally, I don’t hold any of their beliefs in any higher esteem than I do the beliefs other Christian religions but at least my disbelief isn’t based off of rumor and slander.

Voted for by PsydewaysTears.

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Not Good or Bad

I think that to often people judge others and religion on what religion they belong to. To say that the LDS faith is wrong based on how the people act is not right. Only you can judge a religion because only you think and believe what you think and believe.

Voted for by Quiet Silence.

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No problem

I know next to nothing about Mormons. All I know is that every Mormon Ive ever met has been a good person… Im sure there are some bad ones out there, but none that Ive met..

Voted for by AtVaR.

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Uggly aspects?

There are no uggly aspects of the mormon religion... Only mal informed hardcore republican minded peopel in the mormon church. Persecution of any kind is Against our beliefs.

There is evil in alot of people... Just becuase your baptised a mormon doesn't make you a goody two shoes. Whats sad is how excepted psychotically right wing non-church opinions are.

Theres people fornicating everywhere. To me it's the same gay or not. It's wrong and shouldn't be done. But if your not gonna bother normal people, why bother gays. Same sin in my opinion.

Voted for by Embers of Elm.

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i dont know

i am a member of the mormon religion and yet I have my doubts about it. Such as my religion believes that the only way you can go to hell is if you learn the gospel but then deny it. This belief has scared me since I have been having some doubts lately. Some days I have been convinced that the whole mormon religion was made up and other days I just want so bad for it to be true. After all not all of it is bad. I agree with the no coffee thing and no alchohol thing and most of the stuff my religion believes in is actually quite senseble. Most of the poeple I know havent even heard of the church of latter day saints until I tell them about it. And after that they just don't care. So I dont know if my church is right or not and I don't know if I'm even going to stay in it but I like to hear what other people think.

Voted for by fallenangel006.

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sexybeast-155
February 9, 2006
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ok no your not going to be condemmened to hell unless youve been in the church long enough to trulely gain a testimoiny and feel the spirt and know its true and decide to leave because you dont want to accept it and just lose interest and stuff. as to what ive heard neway
MillerMan0362
June 17, 2006
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For the FallenAngel. I was born and raised in ther LDS faith. Three years ago I began my own voyage of discovery. The conclusion I came to was that I just simply do not believe that God, (if he exists) ever had anything to do with, let alone appeared to, Joseph Smith. My study venues were all neutral, like the Library of Congress and the center for Mormon studies web page at BYU. Last summer, after careful consideration of what I had learned, I resigned my membership. I am POSITIVE that I will NOT burn in Hell or suffer some other kind of eternal damnation. This is a personal journey that you must take alone. BUT, I promise that whether you opt to stay LDS or move on with your life the knowledge you gain will do nothing but help you through this thing called living. There is no such thing as "anti Mormon" It's all just truth or Bullshit. Let me know how it goes for you.
mudgod
December 4, 2006
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I love their Tab and Apple choir
mudgod
December 5, 2006
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"It's all just truth or Bullshit."
I could have written a thousand books and not one sentence would have been as succinct. Thank you.

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True Church, Imperfect Members

I'm LDS as well, and personally, I have a very firm testimony of the truth of it.

Yes, I'm not perfect. Nobody is. Life is about making the best we can of it, and choosing the best choices, and being willing to accept that we are wrong and admit it. The only people who really in the end receive true punishment are those too proud to humble themselves enough to repent.

I work in the theater department at my high school. Theater has a reputation as being rather socially liberal. However, I don't go around condemning people for what they choose to do. As Jesus did, I make it clear that I condemn the action and not the sinner, and leave it at that. I don't bring it up in people's faces, and I make a concerted effort to get along with everybody, including those with sexual preferences contrary to those accepted by Church standards.

The Church is true. People, however, are imperfect. Never judge a book by its cover, because you'll never know just how wrong you may be.

Voted for by Theatre Mormon.

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Dwn
December 5, 2006
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"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1

Prophecy is definitely a subject that never fails to pique curiosity. This past century has seen the fulfillment of many Bible prophecies. Even those who do not consider themselves to be believers of the Bible are contributing to the skyrocketing sales of prophetic literature, such as the “Left Behind” series of books. Unfortunately, not all prophecy that intrigues people comes from God. Dionne Warwick and Miss Cleo will peddle you their prophecies for a price. These are examples of false prophets for true profit. The Bible tells us that many false prophets have gone out into the world. How can we recognize a false prophet? Is Joseph Smith a false prophet, or the real deal? Former Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt threw down the gauntlet when he proclaimed that the veracity of Mormonism lives or dies on the question of whether or not Smith was a true prophet of God.

Fortunately, the Bible gives us the litmus test for prophets. Deuteronomy 18:22 says, “If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.” Boiled down, it only takes one false prophecy to make a false prophet. Deuteronomy chapter 13 goes on to tell us that even false prophets will get some right from time to time – but ONE false prophecy is all it takes. Let’s take a look at some of the prophecies of the founding “prophet” of the Mormon Church – Joseph Smith, Jr. – and apply the Biblical litmus test.

On September 1, 1842, Joseph Smith said, “…for to this day has the God of my fathers delivered me out of them all, and will deliver me from henceforth; for behold, and lo, I shall triumph over all my enemies, for the Lord God hath spoken it.” (Doctrine and Covenants, 127:2). The last phrase “for the Lord God hath spoken it,” indicates that this is prophecy. Here, Smith has prophesied that God would allow him to “triumph” over all his enemies. Less than two years later, these same enemies stormed the Carthage, Illinois jail where Smith was imprisoned and shot him dead. Smith tried to fight back, shooting 3 of his assailants and killing 2 with a pistol smuggled in to him, but his “enemies” triumphed. This is a false prophecy. By the litmus test, we have already shown Smith to be a false prophet. For arguments’ sake, however, let’s explore some more.

The following prophecy has only been recounted by one person, and that person eventually left the Mormon Church. Typically, we wouldn’t include it for that reason. However, the person in question was David Whitmer, one of the three “witnesses” to Smith’s translation of the Book of Mormon. And since the LDS Church lends Whitmer the credibility of having him still listed as an original witness (check the beginning of any Book of Mormon), we shall afford him some level of credibility here as well. As the story goes, during the printing of the Book of Mormon, Smith was running out of the money needed to finish it. Hyrum Smith (Joseph’s brother) suggested they could go to Toronto, Canada, and sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon for money. Whitmer picks up the account, “Joseph looked into the hat in which he placed the stone, and received a revelation that some of the brethren should go to Toronto, Canada, and that they would sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon. Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery went to Toronto on this mission, but they failed entirely to sell the copyright, returning without any money. Joseph was at my father's house when they returned. I was there also, and am an eye witness to these facts. Jacob Whitmer and John Whitmer were also present when Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery returned from Canada. Well, we were all in great trouble; and we asked Joseph how it was that he had received a revelation from the Lord for some brethren to go to Toronto and sell the copyright, and the brethren had utterly failed in their undertaking. Joseph did not know how it was, so he enquired of the Lord about it, and behold the following revelation came through the stone: "Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil." So we see that the revelation to go to Toronto and sell the copyright was not of God, but was of the devil or of the heart of man.” - AN ADDRESS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST, David Whitmer, 1887. The stone to which Whitmer refers is the “seer stone” by which Smith arrived at many of his revelations, and which he used to help him “translate” the Book of Mormon. Here, Joseph Smith himself admitted that he was susceptible to receiving revelations from men or from the devil, and passing it on as prophecy. Strike two on the validity of Joseph Smith as a prophet.

Joseph Smith was also interested in the second coming of Jesus Christ. So much so, that he tried to peg Christ’s return to a particular year – 1891. Smith said, “It is the will of the Lord that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was night – even fifty-six years, should wind up the scene.” (The History of the Church, vol II, page 182). Zion here refers to Jackson County, Missouri – not to Israel. Given the context in which this was said, the fifty-six year time frame would place the return of Jesus on or before February 14, 1891. Many Mormon periodicals demonstrated that zealous Mormons were anxiously awaiting the fulfillment of that prophecy. February 14, 1891 came and went with no second coming. It was truly a disappointing Valentine’s Day for many faithful Mormons. Strike three on Smith.

There are several more documented false prophecies of Joseph Smith, but we didn’t even need the three we covered. Strike one against Joseph Smith constitutes a strikeout on his claim of being a prophet. We picked up Apostle Pratt’s gauntlet and struck a sound blow with it. However, we do so in love for the millions of earnest and deceived Mormons. These people can never know the true saving grace of Jesus Christ until they are able to recognize that their religion is based on the words of a false prophet.
http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/falseprophet.php
- Applehead
  December 5, 2006
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  Excellent, thanks Dwn.

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I used to have mormon neighbors.

But the guy only had one wife, and she didn't wear the funny underwear. I'm not sure what that was all about, but whatever. They were pretty normal. Now them pentacostal women, THAT is another story.

By the way, there was an article in People about 'The Lost Boys' who were kicked out of thier homes in Utah because they might have smoked a cigarette or saw a dirty picture. Anything to disgrace a family. So we're talking a thirteen year old boy tossed out on the streets. What's up with that!? They were mormons.

Voted for by Oral Fixation.

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There are 11 choices, 14 votes for joshuada's debate

The Mormon (Or Latter Day Saint Religion), What do you all think

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