i've heard from so many people that they believe that homosexuality is the reason why so many great civilizations (ie-rome) fell. but can any of you actually prove it? can any one of you actually use historical data and logical reasoning to prove to me and the world that homosexuality is a major factor in determining whether a society will perish?
ps- don't bring up Sodom for several reasons 1)it is not proven whether or not sodom even existed in the first place since it is obscurley mentioned in a several thousand year old religious text and 2)because even the bible itself doesn't seem to validate the belief that sodom fell due to homosexuality (Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me." Ezekiel 16:49-50)
note-this is not supposed to be a religious debate about sodom but trying to get anti gay people to actually try and back up their claims with evidence.(also, i'm not saying that anti-gay people never use logic or reasoning but this is one of the points that they have made that seems completely illogical...to me anyway)
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nice answer wrong question33% Voted for by bob2314, Weydon, cosmosis, littleoneof-God, nikadvise. (8 total)
it appears your slip is showing. i have no doubt that all the facts above are correct.i am also sure it will bore you to tears to point out the fact that straight people get those diseases too. it will also bore you to point out the fact that you are taking for granted that one or more of the partners in every gay marriage will sleep around or why worry about stds? it is also apprent that you either have way too much time on your hands or you are fixated on gay people my unasked for advice on that subject would be to arrange for more corses next year. also you might note that the question at hand was not gay marriage but if gay people lead to the fall of rome. the answer to that question is that the fall of rome had more to do with the visagoths, vandals and the huns than gay sex. oh and lets not forget a totaly ineffectual and split holy roman church. one more thing before i leave this topic to the normal hysterical gay/ christian bashing. to you the topic of gay marriage may be boring but to me it's more about if i as a gay man of 43 will ever have similar rites as straight people or will have another 30 years of holy biggotry to look forward to. as always yours in christ bob2314
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Marriage - No........Health - No20% Voted for by Energizer Bunny, littleoneof-God, frndofyaweh, nothingman, Dwn.
Here we go again. It's like a broken record. Over and over and over again. So many people are obsessed with wanting homsexuality to seem so natural and right but it's jut not so. No matter what color you paint an egg shell to make it appear more attractive, when you drop it the guts will spill out. turn it and twist it and view it from any angle you wish but wrong is wrong and it can never be right. Sure, some shout Sodom may not have bene real, but that argument, althought I can appreciate it's purpose, still leads us back to the beginning again. God made marriage to be between a man and a woman. Any other way is going against the grain and it honestly does not take a rocket scientist to see that either. Common sense will tell anyone that it is not normal even though many are fighting with everything they have to make it appear so.
I could write you a book on why homsexuality goes against the Bible but you said no religious conversations so lets stick to what you ask for. Let's look at it from a scientific view:
***PHYSICAL HEALTH***
Common sexual practices among gay men lead to numerous STDs and physical injuries, some of which are virtually unknown in the heterosexual population. Lesbians are also at higher risk for STDs. In addition to diseases that may be transmitted during lesbian sex, a study at an Australian STD clinic found that lesbians were three to four times more likely than heterosexual women to have sex with men who were high-risk for HIV.
***MENTAL HEALTH***
It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.
***LIFE SPAN***
The only epidemiological study to date on the life span of gay men concluded that gay and bisexual men lose up to 20 years of life expectancy.
***MONOGAMY***
Monogamy, meaning long-term sexual fidelity, is rare in GLB relationships, particularly among gay men. One study reported that 66 percent of gay couples reported sex outside the relationship within the first year, and nearly 90 percent if the relationship lasted five years.
Encouraging people to engage in risky sexual behavior undermines good health and can result in a shortened life span. Yet that is exactly what employers and governmental entities are doing when they grant GLB couples benefits or status that make GLB relationships appear more socially acceptable.
***PROMISCUITY***
far-ranging study of homosexual men published in 1978 revealed that 75 percent of self-identified, white, gay men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250- 499; 15 percent claimed 500-999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. By 1984, after the AIDS epidemic had taken hold, homosexual men were reportedly curtailing promiscuity, but not by much. Studies show Promiscuity is more wide spread in homosexual relationships than heterosexual ones. This in itself is very alarming when the prospect of catching a transmitted disease like the dreaded aids comes to mind. In more recent years, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control has reported an upswing in promiscuity, at least among young homosexual men in San Francisco. From 1994 to 1997, the percentage of homosexual men reporting multiple partners and unprotected anal sex rose from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent, with the largest increase among men under 25.7 Despite its continuing incurability, AIDS no longer seems to deter individuals from engaging in promiscuous gay sex.
The HIV/AIDS epidemic has remained a predominantly gay issue in the U.S. primarily because of the greater degree of promiscuity among gays.12 A study based upon statistics from 1986 through 1990 estimated that 20-year-old gay men had a 50 percent chance of becoming HIV positive by age 55. As of June 2001, nearly 64 percent of men with AIDS were men who have had sex with men and one can only imagine how high the numbers are now.
Experts believe syphilis is on the rise among gay and bisexual men because they are engaging in unprotected sex with multiple partners, many of whom they met in anonymous situations such as sex clubs, adult bookstores, meetings through the Internet and in bathhouses. The new data will show that in the 93 cases involving gay and bisexual men this year, the group reported having 1,225 sexual partners."
***Unhealthy sexual behaviors occur among both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Yet the medical and social science evidence indicate that homosexual behavior is uniformly unhealthy.***
Men having sex with other men leads to greater health risks than men having sex with women19 not only because of promiscuity but also because of the nature of sex among men.
Anal intercourse is the sine qua non of sex for many gay men. Yet human physiology makes it clear that the body was not designed to accommodate this activity. The rectum is significantly different from the vagina with regard to suitability for penetration by a penis. The vagina has natural lubricants and is supported by a network of muscles.
The end result is that the fragility of the anus and rectum, along with the immunosuppressive effect of ejaculate, make anal-genital intercourse a most efficient manner of transmitting HIV and other infections. The list of diseases found with extraordinary frequency among male homosexual practitioners as a result of anal intercourse is alarming:
Anal Cancer Chlamydia trachomatis Cryptosporidium Giardia lamblia Herpes simplex virus Human immunodeficiency virus Human papilloma virus Isospora belli Microsporidia Gonorrhea Viral hepatitis types B & C Syphilis
Sexual transmission of some of these diseases is so rare in the exclusively heterosexual population as to be virtually unknown.
In America, Human Herpes Virus 8 (called Herpes Type 8 or HHV-8) is a disease found exclusively among male homosexual practitioners. Researchers have long noted that men who contracted AIDS through homosexual behavior frequently developed a previously rare form of cancer called Kaposi's sarcoma. Men who contract HIV/AIDS through heterosexual sex or intravenous drug use rarely display this cancer. Recent studies confirm that Kaposi's sarcoma results from infection with HHV-8. The New England Journal of Medicine described one cohort in San Francisco where 38 percent of the men who admitted any homosexual contact within the previous five years tested positive for this virus while none of the exclusively heterosexual men tested positive. The study predicted that half of the men with both HIV and HHV-8 would develop the cancer within 10 years.
The consequences of homosexual activity have significantly altered the delivery of medical care to the population at-large. With the increased incidence of STD organisms in unexpected places, simple sore throat is no longer so simple. Doctors must now ask probing questions of their patients or risk making a misdiagnosis. The evaluation of a sore throat must now include questions about oral and anal sex. A case of hemorrhoids is no longer just a surgical problem. We must now inquire as to sexual practice and consider that anal cancer, rectal gonorrhea, or rectal chlamydia may be secreted in what deceptively appears to be "just hemorrhoids."54 Moreover, data shows that rectal and throat gonorrhea, for example, are without symptoms in 75 percent of cases.
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No doubt, anyone with a shred of common sense can see that this is NOT normal and healthy in any way. So, even though this topic is about marriage why in hell should homosexual marriages be legal when even scientific studies have and will continue to show that lifestyle is not a healthy choice at all. Sure, no doubt both sides have they supporting proof, but clearly anyone with a brain can see this is not normal and healthy. You don't have to list the tons of religious reason, just look at the studies done. GGeezz...even science says no to this one basically.
Now I know everyone has their own opinions and mine is not the rule of thumb and I honestly can appreciate that but you can't argue with the studies.
Now I thoroughly enjoy visitin the many different topics but homosexuality has been discuss from top to bottom, from a religious stand point to a scientific stand point and even from a personal heath stand point. Bottom line, a certain few (and we all know who we are), continue to posts in these topics and I would be almost certain to say not one of us has been influenced toward the other side of the fence by any other member. So, from a logical point it is rather useless to continue to leave similar responses in these topics on homosexual behavior. Thus, I've exercised my right and privelege to reveal my opinions from every conceivable angle on this issue so now I have nothing further to add to any other similar topics on this matter. take care.
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bush will destroy the world8% Voted for by Neros Decay, black rose spirit.
first of all - there are plenty of things in this world that people enjoy that other people would say "go against the bible". i may remind pople that the bible was not at all meant to follow word for word. it is merely a guide to living a semi-moral life, and like i said - there are things far more immoral than homosexuality going on in the word that get unnoticed and unridiculed just because they arent mentioned in the bible. the bible cant be anything more than a suggestion to anyone due to everyone having such highly differing interpritations of its scriptures.
there may be a higher risk for gay men to get injuries and there may be diseases that exsist primarily in homosexual lifestyles but the oppositie is true for heterosexuals as well. to pin one type of lifestyle with having the ability to create diseases and injuries solely is rediculous as i do remember that anal sex can causes injury in heterosexual relationships as well. and perhaps there are greater risks to contract these STDs... what else can you expect when protection isnt being used? if heterosexual couples didnt use protection in thinking that they werent at risk for transmitting STDs im sure there would be a spike in the statistics taht would suggest heterosexuals are almost equal in transmitting STDs. diseases dont choose a certain type of people based on their lifestyle, there are many factors including health and what a person is doing in the manner of proventing infection.
suggesting that homosexuals are homosexuals hence they are at a higher risk for mental illness is rediculous as well. thats like saying teenagers are at higher risk for stress and suicide because they are teenagers. perhaps mental illness would be less prevelant in homosexuals if they werent shunned, harrassed, and told they are wrong for being who they are. surely depression is not solely caused by deciding who youre having sex with or who you decided to love. mostly, depression and stress are caused by your surrounding enviornment. you can find risky sexual practice in heterosexual people as well. take the classic teenage girl turned hooker for example. whats the most common cause you'll find? abuse. hence causing a lifetime of risky behavior. no matter how you "twist and turn" the situation, the facts can be pinned to both lifestyles of people.
smoking ciggarettes is a far more dangerous thing than being homosexual a man in the U.S. but is still glorified no matter how many middle aged people (men and women) it kills. ciggarettes can cause cancer, cancer is one of the largest leading causes for death. i dont hear homosexuality on the top 5 killer list. therefore it cant affect the population that much. america wants to stop killing off its population? take away alcohol, ciggarettes and drugs.
monogamy is a rare find in any kind of relationship. the divorce rate of heterosexual couples has increased dramatically and when it when it does begin to decrease, it increases twice as much the next year. the fact of the matter is that people will be people and will stray outside of a relationship if they can get away with it. if every couple in the world didnt care about maintaining a level of commitment, people would find alot more of risky sexual behavior because they can. yes, encouragement can be a factor risky sexual behavior but there is also the factor of human will. saying when someone gives the OK on GLB relationships it increases the chances for risky behavior is like saying because porn and sex are so widly becoming accepted that its influencing heterosexual people to have premarital sex. maybe it is and maybe it isnt. either way, premarital sex is just as bad as muliple partners - how often do you hear people being with someone they slept with in middle school/highschool/college? rarely.
"The AIDS epidemic was discovered June 5, 1981, when the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported a cluster of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (now classified as Pneumocystis jiroveci pneumonia) in five homosexual men in Los Angeles.[98] Originally dubbed GRID, or Gay-Related Immune Deficiency, health authorities soon realized that nearly half of the people identified with the syndrome were not homosexual men. In 1982, the CDC introduced the term AIDS to describe the newly recognized syndrome." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS
"The biggest component in the rapid rise in the numbers of new HIV diagnoses has been in heterosexually acquired infections. Since 1999 the number of new HIV diagnoses in heterosexual men and women have outnumbered those in homosexual and bisexual men.
The 4,287 new HIV infections diagnosed in 2004 that were heterosexually acquired is an increase of more than five times the number in 1995, when less than 900 such infections were diagnosed annually.
Just under two thirds (2,720) of these heterosexually acquired HIV infections diagnosed in 2004 were in women, and three quarters of the total in both men and women (3,138) were probably acquired in Africa. In 2004, there were 2,185 diagnoses attributable to sex between men." http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=654
quite obviously, homosexuality may be a gay issue for the most part in the U.S., but in other parts of the world that we consider to be as wonderful and civilized as the U.S. (like the UK) HIV/AIDs is actually significantly more common in heterosexuals. true, the rate in which homosexuals infected with HIV/AIDs increased but not as much as it has in previous years. instead there was a more dramatic increase in heterosexual infection. one third of the AIDs cases are heterosexual. and one can only imagine how high the numbers are going to be in the future. "medical and social science evidence indicate that homosexual behavior is uniformly unhealthy.***" ... so if i engage in unhealthy behavior its not recognized as unhealthy because im heterosexual? ok.
according to Meriam-Webster's Dictionary, exclusively means "limiting or limited to possession, control, or use by a single individual or group 2 a : excluding others from participation". im sure everyone knows what that means but i felt the need to display it as Human Herpes Virus-8 is not "exclusively" a homosexual virus. it is only prevelant in 35% of homosexual men the rest being transmitted from mother to child and even kidney transplants. HHV-8 is dramatically less common than HHV-1 or HHV-2. which can also be found in heterosexuals.
i fail to recognize the corrolation between homosexuals and their impact on medical treatments and care. all of what was described can also come from heterosexuals. therefore to pin alteration of anything in the way of medical care can be shared by both homosexuals and heterosexuals. i have never in my life been asked questions concerning any type of sex when going in for a sore throat. mono is now more of an immediate thought than STDs. mono - mononucleosis (also known as the "kissing disease") affects your lymph nodes, throat, salivary glands, liver, spleen, and blood, and it can make you lose your appetite and feel tired and achy all over and is contagious through contact with an infected person's saliva. as far as i know, men and women no matter if they are gay, straight, bisexual, or lesbian can kiss, share cups, cough on people, share a pillow and basically find ways to get their saliva on others. if anything, the "predominate homosexual nature" of HIV/AIDs has helped the medical care by inspiring the search for cures for diseases.
"basically", science doesnt say yes or no to "that" lifestyle. like was stated, both sides have their points and their studies. the topic was whether or not homosexuality destroyed civilizations and ut future society at risk. civilizations didnt crumble because a man had sex with a man or a woman had sex with a women. it wasnt even from the "STDs homosexuals cause". Rome fell because of corruption, death of important rulers, and war. rome had 72 emporers and all but 2 of them were violently killed. many early cities perished due to their lavished ways of life. in the time of rome, most lived happy and prosperous lives. some people elaborate on the acts of homosexual sex between men and younger males and pin that with the crumbling of rome, but homosexual acts of that nature were very scarcely practiced. rome specifically fell after its many civil wars. they fell behind in culture and spent their wealth repairing cities destroyed by war. Government paternalism, bureaucracy, inflation, an ever-increasing taste for the brutal and brutalizing spectacles of the amphitheater and the circus were symptoms of spiritual malaise which had begun when political freedom was tossed away in the interests of peace, security, and materialism. There was the cancer of slavery and the equally dangerous practice of keeping a segment of the population permanently on the dole. There was free labor subsisting on starvation wages because of the competition of slavery. At the other end of the scale lolled a group of multi-millionaires for whom no luxury was too extravagant. Nor did anyone perceive that inflation and rising taxation must ultimately squeeze the middle class out of being. Meanwhile, a tide of Oriental religions tried to fill the spiritual vacuum. A sense of futility seemed to permeate society. There were many outstanding administrators and good governors but, on the whole, the Roman spirit which had conquered the world seemed to have dissolved into an indolence which preferred ease and comfort to a facing up to the dangers which threatened civilization. Some authors suggest that the change in racial stock was responsible for this attitude. Others mention the plague and malaria as possible causes. One might better, perhaps, simply call it the disease of materialism or, if you like, of the "affluent society" .
homosexuality has never before destroyed a civilization and i highly doubt that it would cause a danger to society today, next week, or years in the future. some people speculate on the issue of procreation through homosexuals and that the human species will not be able to maintain itself if homosexuals outnumber heterosexuals. this is foolish due to the fact that homosexuals are fighting for ways to have children whether it be through seregant mothers, adoption, and sperm doners. the contradiction lies within the ones with the concerns for the upholding of the human species who are constantly trying to find ways to deny homosexuals the right to adopt. its a bit ironic if you think about it - if the world comes to a point the GLB population outnumbers heterosexual populations, the dying out of the human race would be in the court of the heterosexuals for so passionately fighting against the procreation they were so adament to have. isnt something is better than nothing? it is actually predicted taht we will destroy ourselves through war and pollution long before the gays destroy america with their talk of rights and marriage to people they care for.
personally, i believe the reason taht no matter what kind of posts there are no one on a debate forum would ever switch sides or be convinced of anythig for the reason taht the people in debate forums all belive they are right in their opinions and would stand by it. whats the point of a forum if only one post about one subject would be allowed and everyone believed what that one post said? it would be the same as any educational website on the net. yet we will argue and repetitively leave posts and responses with our opinions in hopes of opening up so minds to thinking beyond their own knowledge or what they believe they know. homosexuality is such a diverse and widly known topic taht it attracts more attention and strong beliefs than anything else. morals, religion, health, mentality, acceptance - alot of the other topics can be found in this one topic making it an ideal and valuble asset to the forum. if people think it and believe it - why not post it and protect it?
there is a 198.5 percent chance of president bush's stupidity forming its own myspace and destroying the world one human brain cell at a time.
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Neros Decay
January 28, 2007
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Neros Decay
January 28, 2007
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petethemeat
November 12, 2007
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I hate to fall on such an argument, but the US is and always has been a liberal democracy. The only thing coming close to competition between Liberal Democracy was Marxist Russia, which has failed. Every other type of Government has either failed or is dying.
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