There is a fine line between seduction and coercion. Where is this line?
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Age and experience42% Voted for by Applehead, Weydon, pnktrky.
If a man was loving to a child to gain her trust and then wanted something from her that she would not agree to, he may then become aggressive, threaten her. And so she gives in. The man is nice again he got what he wanted. Age and experience would allow most people to recognise this behaviour.
He starts with seduction then crosses the line into coercion by being aggressive and demanding.
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"No"Voted for by Weydon.
Pretty much after the word "no" or anything close is uttered. Maybe if it seems more like a "playful no", you can gently try once more and inquire as to why, but nothing passed that.
Not that classifying it matters. I doubt there are boatloads of people that were confused that they were forcing themselves on someone. Struggle is generally quite apparent.
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Adding your comment: -
"Not that classifying it matters. I doubt there are boatloads of people that were confused that they were forcing themselves on someone. Struggle is generally quite apparent." So if someone is aggressive with a means to gain say sexual favour, should they be prosecuted for this. If they are with complete understanding about what they are doing yet still proceed to hound the girl shouldn't they be punished for this behaviour? if so then surely it does need to be classified. You know as well as I do that words are powerful things. Let me ask you, if a 25 yr old smooth talkin man seduces a 13-15 yr old is this right? No, didn't think so. The man has control of the child through the art of seduction not coercion. If she is pretty lackin in confidence and the guy is sooo nice to her she just can't resist the charms of this snake, does this make it any less of a crime just because he has only used words and not force or threats? Can she really say no, she is so desperate to feel loved, wanted by someone and here's a man who is older, supposedly wiser and (apparently) offering her just what she needs. What about children? Would a child of be able to coerce another child intentionally. Maybe, but should they then be punished because of their behaviour? Where did they learn to behave like that? Why don't they know it's wrong? Or do they? I feel at this age behaviour is learned and children don't have enough awarenes of right or wrong to make a clear judgement. The concern here is where they learn this behaviour and how to wipe it out.
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***The man has control of the child through the art of seduction not coercion*** ***If she is pretty lackin in confidence and the guy is sooo nice to her she just can’t resist the charms of this snake, does this make it any less of a crime just because he has only used words and not force or threats*** ***I feel at this age behaviour is learned and children don’t have enough awarenes of right or wrong to make a clear judgement. The concern here is where they learn this behaviour and how to wipe it out*** Chalk one up for Applehead. Very nice points you brought out girl ;)
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*So if someone is aggressive with a means to gain say sexual favour, should they be prosecuted for this.* Depends on what you mean by aggressive. *You know as well as I do that words are powerful things. Let me ask you, if a 25 yr old smooth talkin man seduces a 13-15 yr old is this right? No, didn’t think so. The man has control of the child through the art of seduction not coercion* The key word is child. Seducing someone of your own age group can sometimes be a bit of a game, and if it's not falling in your lap and you want it, you do have to work for it a little. Smooth talking and all that. When dealing with a child it is something different. It is the whole premise of statuatory rape, and justifiably so. Though I tend to be over-protective of girls, and don't feel nearly the same way of a guy getting with an older girl. If the girl is 17 or so, she is inexperienced but old enough to be making her own decisions, and it is regretful that many are naive and far too trusting so they have to learn the hard way. *What about children? Would a child of be able to coerce another child intentionally.* You're using the word coerce too loosely I think. Without any physical agression it is simply seducing. If they feed her lies, it is a deceptive scumbag. But it is also life. Guys also get lied to and cheated on and cry when they love someone who doesn't feel the same way, even though they thought thye had something special. All we can do is guide future generations to be wary, because that is all we can do ourselves. *The concern here is where they learn this behaviour and how to wipe it out* There is no way. If you're talking about people that physically overpower and molest and rape: they're the worst of scum. They are also people we grew up with. Watched the same shows, had the same teachers, went through the same economic backgrounds. Same goes for the liars. Some people want what they want. Some force, some lie. Some are honest. All we can do is encourage a better way.
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"Depends on what you mean by aggressive." Any aggression verbal or physical. "The key word is child." yup "Though I tend to be over-protective of girls, and don’t feel nearly the same way of a guy getting with an older girl. If the girl is 17 or so, she is inexperienced but old enough to be making her own decisions, and it is regretful that many are naive and far too trusting so they have to learn the hard way." So shouldn't the seducer be held responsible for breaking the girls heart or worse. He is old enough to know better. "You’re using the word coerce too loosely I think. Without any physical agression it is simply seducing" I use the word as it's meant. A child four years older could easily become aggressive inorder to put pressure on naive younger children. Question is why would they? You may be finding this hard to comprehend because of your own innocence. A child only knows what they have learned. Being abused or exposed in other ways opens the child up to things they cannot truly understand, they are not mature enough to take on the emotional and physical baggage that goes with sexual contact. Inside they may know it's wrong but what can a child do to stop it. For some it may become a way of life, the only affection they get thus leading to a dependance on that feeling in order to sustain a pretence of being loved. Leading to problems throughout childhood and on into adulthood, for some. Your experience and Esfuerzo's seems perfectly normal but these experiences cannot be compared to true abuse or exposure. If a 10 year old boy has a PSP and stumbles across and xxx video or whatever, who's to say he might not take it on and think hhhmmm looks fun I mught try that on my little sis or next door neighbour. Does it once gets away with enjoys it so does it again. Not good. Had the PSP been safe for him he would never have got these ideas in the first place. "There is no way. If you’re talking about people that physically overpower and molest and rape: they’re the worst of scum. They are also people we grew up with. Watched the same shows, had the same teachers, went through the same economic backgrounds. Same goes for the liars. Some people want what they want. Some force, some lie. Some are honest. All we can do is encourage a better way." So you think people are born scumbags then?
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*So shouldn’t the seducer be held responsible for breaking the girls heart or worse. He is old enough to know better.* Held responsible how? Having the girl's older brother punch him in the nose? Maybe. But what else could be done? Some sort of legal punishment for heartbreak? Even adultery isn't illegal, it's merely a grounds for divorce. *If a 10 year old boy has a PSP and stumbles across and xxx video or whatever, who’s to say he might not take it on and think hhhmmm looks fun I mught try that on my little sis or next door neighbour.* I was with you at first, figuring we had a misinterpretation where you were talking about someone who was sexually abused possibly bringing about problems that could lead to them being an abuser themselves (possibly, mind you). Then you say that because a 10 year old stumbled upon porn he'll try it on his sister?!?! You have completely forgotten what it's like to be 10. They're not lesser lifeforms that mimic humanity, they're fully functional smart little kids. If they stumble upon a porn they'll turn bright red and then either look around to make sure no one will discover them or quickly turn it off because they think they're doing something wrong. If they watch it, they'll probably love it but have some confusion to the specifics of it all. They will be curious about it and will think it looks like fun, but they won't think "I should probably try and do this to my sister or neighbor", they'll go "So...it's like a hole that goes over my thingy when it gets hard?" and discover masturbation, if they hadn't already. If you're truly worried about the possibility of moronic children seeing videos and then forcing themselves on others to copy the video out of curiosity, you should probably not HIDE sexuality from children but bring about earlier lessons of sexual education and respect. *So you think people are born scumbags then?* I think there is a mix of Nature and Nurture in all of us. I think it's feasible that pedophiles may have some sort of genetic disability, because I can't see someone naturally thinking little kids are hot. What I do know for sure is that seeing a porn doesn't act as some sort mind control agent, forming sexual predators.
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"If you’re truly worried about the possibility of moronic children seeing videos and then forcing themselves on others to copy the video out of curiosity, you should probably not HIDE sexuality from children but bring about earlier lessons of sexual education and respect." Exactly :) Although moronic seems wrong what about abused or misguided. Self respect, understanding about the "predatory" nature of some older people, how to say no. Under ten yrs and they would not need to be taught about sex directly but some knowledge in order to gain awareness has got to be a plus. "What I do know for sure is that seeing a porn doesn’t act as some sort mind control agent, forming sexual predators. Firstly I am not describing a child as a sexual predator, maybe if they're give no help they may reach this point in adulthood to prevent this they should not be exposed at such a young age. How can you speak for every child out there. Some kids are exposed in many different ways. Some brothers do mess with thier sisters (unfortunately) Maybe they have been exposed subtly over time. Adults should, if they have any morals, be able to control thier behaviour but a child doesn't have the same self control. I honestly can hardly believe you find it acceptable for a CHILD 10yrs old to see a dirty movie. What is that about?
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*Although moronic seems wrong what about abused or misguided. Self respect, understanding about the “predatory” nature of some older people, how to say no. Under ten yrs and they would not need to be taught about sex directly but some knowledge in order to gain awareness has got to be a plus.* lol You have a funny way of getting about to that point unless I missed something said earlier. I agree that sexual education, not just in the mechanics but also education of respect and protection, is very important to children. Though to ease your mind, I'm fairly confident that the countless generations of kids that were raised by conservative families that never gave "the talk" or waited until they were well into their teens, did not all turn into predators. *Firstly I am not describing a child as a sexual predator, maybe if they’re give no help they may reach this point in adulthood to prevent this they should not be exposed at such a young age. How can you speak for every child out there.* I speak for myself and just about everyone in my grade who'd talk about girls during recess. Friends I got later in life would sometimes tell funny stories about what they first thought sex was and when they started "discovering themselves", and it would be generally between 4th and 7th grade. *Some kids are exposed in many different ways. Some brothers do mess with thier sisters (unfortunately) Maybe they have been exposed subtly over time.* Very unfortunate and horrible. But these kids were not raised in some distant society that had odd practices. They were raised in the same environment as their peers. If you find a rapist, are his brothers gonna be rapists as well because they were raised in an identical atmosphere of "subtle exposure"? Predators are our neighbors. Predators are sons, brothers, and friends. It's oddly comforting to attribute their progression to this level to "Well, they must have been abused themselves" because it makes them something different than ourselves. But they're not. They are humanity, but just the worst of us. Sometimes it happens because of trauma of being abused, but not everyone who was abused becomes an abuser. There's no explaining what causes all of them, and it's why on the news neighbors and friends and family are shocked and say "He was always so nice". There are sick people out there, and all we can do is encourage younger generations to a better way which includes respect, awareness, and even a desire to protect others if they see something amiss. Hiding porno has nothing to do with this. *I honestly can hardly believe you find it acceptable for a CHILD 10yrs old to see a dirty movie. What is that about?* There is nothing inherently wrong with a porno. What's going to happen? They're going to get excited, both in the traditional sense and the sexual sense. If I stumbled upon a 10 yr old downloading porn I might chuckle a little, but when they got embarassed and defensive I'd explain that it's perfectly normal to be curious about stuff like that. Going wide-eyed and throwing them off the computer, explaining that it's a "DIRTY" movie that only dirty, disgusting people would enjoy will make them ashamed of themselves for something completely natural. If they hadn't been given "the talk" yet, I'd say they should get it.
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"Though to ease your mind, I’m fairly confident that the countless generations of kids that were raised by conservative families that never gave “the talk” or waited until they were well into their teens, did not all turn into predators." Well thats good news, doesn't change the fact that kids ho are exposed and not educated could end up with vary bad habits. I agree with most of what you have said Weydon. Porn and kids should not happen no matter how much you chuckle. It may or may not affect their life in a big way. Why risk it by not protecting them from it in the first place?
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"Well thats good news, doesn't change the fact that kids ho are exposed and not educated could end up with vary bad habits"
I don't think that's what happens automatically. My dad tried to give me "the talk" when I was almost 14. I already knew most of it, though I think some stuff he said I was like "ohhhh" in my mind. It was a little awkward and I felt weird telling him not to bother telling me because (I thought) I already knew.
"Porn and kids should not happen no matter how much you chuckle"
Why? When people reach puberty they'll become curious. Maybe they'll get porn, maybe they'll sneak sexy magazine ads into their bedroom. What's the difference?
"Why risk it by not protecting them from it in the first place?"
Risk what? How would we protect them from porn? I'm not saying I will buy my younger relatives a couple of good porns for their birthday, I'm saying I won't freak out if they have some. -
Maybe you should read up on kids and sexual exposure. Its not a good thing for too many kids.
I would say 14 is old enough to start gaining a bit of knowledge. PSP's are given to kids of all ages though. -
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I saw my first porno magazine when i was 8, and had my first sexual experience (if you can call it that) when i was 6. If I could go so far as to say those immortal words- it never did me any harm...
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well so far that is just grand for you but not all kids feel the same way!
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Grand!! I love learning the lingo, how epic!
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Ha yeah tis
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I would love to, as I have never heard of a kid reaching puberty and masturbating or taking peeks at porno or lusting at fully clothed images leading to trauma. Do you have any sources I can check?
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link1
"The children also show the damage. As pornography becomes normalized, it is left around the house. Children can get exposed to it. These are tender minds that are just developing their conceptualizations of sex. Normalizing abnormal sex increase the likelihood that they will engage in these behaviors. This increases the likelihood of early sexual experience and with it, the increasing risk of pregnancy, and sexually transmitted diseases. These children often think that all relationships are sexual. That sex is the core of their personalities and is the way in which you raise your self-esteem. This may be one reason that we see sexual addiction running in families. The distorted beliefs are not only reinforced but modeled as well. In one report in Australia, children who had become sexual predators before the age of 12, all had experienced pornographic material on the Internet and large number believed that the only use of the Internet was for pornographic material." -
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This is not an argument against porn, it is an argument against irresponsibility. I didn't say leave your porn around for your 6 year old to find, I said don't make porn out to be disgusting and despicable to a naturally curious child who has hit puberty.
Instead of worrying that kids might learn about sex from porn and then try it, think of 2 other factors:
1. Kids will discover sex anyway. Even without TV, movies, and general conversations, they'll just figure it out. It's instinct.
2. This is why you should implement sexual education, both in the mechanics as well as respect and responsibility. This will eliminate fears of kids going "Duurrrr....uh....ok, me try that now!", rather than blaming the porn for a lack of proper rearing. -
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And I thought we had already agreed on the education thing boy must have imagined that one.
As far as adolecents go, you keep bringing them up. It is not only adolecents that have PSP's. A young child should not be exposed to graphic pornography. -
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"And I thought we had already agreed on the education thing boy must have imagined that one."
So did I. Yet you still claim a major danger is a kid wanting to mimic this foreign but interesting concept of sex. If they were educated, that is not a danger.
"As far as adolecents go, you keep bringing them up. It is not only adolecents that have PSP's. A young child should not be exposed to graphic pornography."
I would never waste the money a PSP costs on someone too young to handle "the talk". They are expensive, fairly delicate pieces of equipment. If they can't handle the talk, they are likely to lose and/or drop it. Regardless, merely turn off the internet settings. -
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The two are linked Weydon. Its about respect, pronography is direspectful. It is also disrepsectful of a child to leave them open to exposure.
The line is respect.
When a man seduces a woman he respects her but woes her. Coercion is all about being direspectful. Just taking and nothing else.
Your right young kids should not be given undue responsibility for looking after such expensive things neither should they be given unneccessary and undue responsibilty when it comes to sex. -
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"pronography is direspectful"
It is?
"When a man seduces a woman he respects her but woes her. Coercion is all about being direspectful. Just taking and nothing else."
I don't know what kind of porn you watch, but the ones I watch are consenting. No coercion going on there. -
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Im open to pursuasion so you tell me what is respectful about porn?
The coercion is the visuals of the porn, it forces a child into learning unmanageable knowledge.They are not mentally capable of acting responsibly with there new found questions. Why do we put guards round fires for kids? Because they are too young to resist touching it. They dont have enough self control. Yeah teach them about the fire. Over time you allow them to feel the heat just so they know what hot is. What if the fire guard were made of chocolate? bloody useless and the poor kid gets burned, maybe.
Im sure the err ladies in the film are more than happy to be there. -
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What is respectful about twirling your hair? What is respectful about stretching? Just because something isnt respectful doesnt mean its automatically disrespectful.
Though in the case of porn, it is in fact respecting the consent of people performing deeds that should require consent.
Im not saying porn should be allowed for 3 year olds to have. Though not inherently DANGEROUS as there have been many cases of a kids walking in on sex and them simply being confused (and not having their minds instantly melt and reform as a crazed sex offender), it is awkward, harder to explain, not something theyd even understand fully, etc.
"Im sure the err ladies in the film are more than happy to be there"
Me too
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link2
"Children often imitate what they've seen, read, or heard. Studies suggest that exposure to pornography can prompt kids to act out sexually against younger, smaller, and more vulnerable children. Experts in the field of childhood sexual abuse report that any premature sexual activity in children always suggests two possible stimulants: experience and exposure. This means that the sexually deviant child may have been molested or simply exposed to sexuality through pornography." -
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First, I'd like to point out that the same source also says "While there are many ways that pornography harms children, I want to assure you that every child who views pornography will not necessarily be affected and, at worst, traumatized in the same way. The effects of pornography are progressive and addictive for many people. Just as every person who takes a drink does not automatically become an alcoholic, every child who is exposed to pornography does not automatically become a sexual deviant or sex addict. "
Well said.
Second, these studies are entirely arbitrary. ONE out of THREE sex offenders had seen porn before the age of 14? What does that mean? First, most of them haven't seen porn. Maybe THAT made them sexually nuts. But more likely, it had nothing to do with it. They also could have asked if they were hugged every day as a child, or watched cartoons as a child, or played hopscotch. The fact that some did and some didn't in all cases doesn't mean there's a direct link. All they did was ask if they had seen porn! No genuine psychiatric connection was made.
If they made a comparison study of people who AREN'T sexual abusers and had seen porn before the age of 14, I'm confident the results would laughably topple over this "evidence". -
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Hhhmm good point I'l look into it.
How can you deny that it has any effect, even if some kids aren't affected some are. Isn't that enough? Im pretty confident that the amount of exposure will have a lot ot do with it also. Multiple types of exposure, multiple ways it could affect them, he magnitude of that exposure are all important. But the effects are they're.
Did you read it all?
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I read all of the quote and gave a cursory glance at the some more. All I noticed was they had asked sex offenders if they were exposed to porn, some said yes, and suddenly the words "this suggests links to..." were flying around. As far as I can tell, they missed a step.
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thanks for your time
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Anytime
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Porn wouldnt make them feel ashamed, people telling them theyre disgusting for enjoying something dirty like sexual practices will make them feel ashamed.
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I have enjoyed the industry for many years, if that's what you mean by interest, but I'm not involved in it.
Personally I'll defend anything I perceive as harmless yet is being persecuted, as I'm sure anyone would. Porn is not to blame for all your troubles. Scapegoats don't solve anything your pillow can't.
I also find it frustrating and depressing that kids going through a natural phase in their life are told they are "dirty" and "perverted" and disgusting", and now also apparently will be identified as "likely future sex offenders" (?!?!?!?!). There's nothing wrong with it.
The only thing resembling validity in any of these arguments that I've seen is the CHANCE (however unlikely) that some weird kid might see the porn and then force themselves on another kid to try it out. A. This can be avoided by sexual education., and B. If your child is so willing and even enthusiastic about the idea of forcing themselves on someone weaker than them in order to get what they want, you have a lot more to worry about than what today's generation uses for masturbation material. -
OK get comfy coz Im gonna tell you a Jackanory
A child was once lonely, she didn't get the affection she needed. The affection that every child needs. Her mum was distracted looking for another kind of Love, hmm or maybe lust. Anyways, the child was witness to her mothers quest for lust, she saw and heard all kinds of things she didn't truly understand. That pierced her ears and eyes in such a way that she would scream and scream until it stopped. Any decent mother would have heard the child and would have stopped but her mother wasn't so didn't. What could the child do? She couldn't carry on like this, it made her sick, scared and tortured beyond belief inside. Even though she thought her mum was in pain she had to carry on screaming, there was nothing else she could do to escape except leave her own body. Then one day her mum explains that she's not in any pain during the sex but that she actually enjoys it. The girl is confused but accepts what her mother has told her. It was too little, too late. The damage to her very being was done. She has to scream anyway because she cannot escape the fear, dread and hate for the whole thing. How could her mum be so irresponsible? Why did her mum not shut up or keep the door closed?
From a young age the girl determines relationships by way of physical contact. Needing some kind of love, the girl craves affection so she ventures out trying the physical stuff. Not just once but too many times. Other kids become involved and they wind up being damaged too. At the age of about six the girl stumbles across some pornography. Shocked and curious she wonders what it would be like to take it this far. One time after playing this out naughtily with her friends the parents found out and went balistic (understandable) The girl was chastised and felt shame, guilt and self hate. Then came along older boys, uh oh. I have my own personal experience with older boys so I know exactly what they can be like, nothing like this but, anyhow, the story. They noticed a difference with the girl because she was kinda over friendly. They decided to take advantage of the girl's desire for affection and messed around with her. She enjoyed the attention but still felt the guilt and the shame. By this point though the feeling had become addictive. Now she needed that love (or the imagined love) because it wasn't going to come from elsewhere.
Into her teens she had been through so much bullying at school and put up with so much pain from her mum that her confidence was at an all time low. Men who saw her in the street shouted lude comments because she had physically matured early. Resentful and destroyed she began to internalise all the hate, even telling people to .. huhum .. go away when they say hi. She felt she was not even worth talking to.
Then she found alcohol and drugs. Totally changed things because she could be confident and carefree. Blinded by booze she rediscovered the power of the physical and made a whole bunch of new mistakes. Barren and filthy inside she felt disgusted with herself. Lost and lonely she was confused, she only wanted Love. How did all of this happen to her? How did a caring loving innocent child get so messed up? She wasn't 'weird' just needy. It's because she wasn't protected, no one helped her or explained to her what sex was about. She became a tool for wanton desires. Nothing but prey for the predators.
The Point
Kids are naive! They are clean slates learning as they go along! Societies ignorance lets them down! The lack of good parenting and lax guardianship leads on to the child finding their own way in life, unfortunately the hard way.
Yeah adults can watch porn if they want. Teenagers too so long as the parents are mature and responsible enough to teach them right and wrong behaviour.
Surely learning that Love is about Love and not just sex will help them to create a stable environment for themselves when they are grown, instead of being left in a void of bewilderment, loneliness and desperation -
That was yet another case of irresponsible parenting. Saying "Buck up little camper, don't be sad! I enjoy sex." is the worst case of "sexual education" I've ever heard. A FURTHER explanation and promise that the little girl will understand the various emotions would have helped. The responsibilities and respect that goes with sex is ESSENTIAL. Not slutting around in front of your kids helps too.
"Kids are naive! They are clean slates learning as they go along!"
Not really. There's a mix of nature and nurture. The naivete you're talking about is actually amazing coping skills. This little girl had an extremely irresponsible mother that apparently slept with whoever she could get her hands on, didn't hide it from her daughter, hardly cared for her daughter, and never taught her daughter.
You can cite endless amounts of stories dealing with kids who are frustrated because their loving, devoted mother lives in povety just because the world sucks. A kid witnessing the exact situation you described and resenting her mother and becoming an hardworking prude just to make sure she didn't turn out like that. Or you can cite cases of kids raised in picture perfect homes becomign sluts themselves. Or more easily, a house with more than one kid not far apart in age--all of them being DIFFERENT. Kids are not BLANK, they are inexperienced. Kids react differently to identical situations.
HOW did the girl turn out the way she did? You focused on the sex she witnessed her mother going about having for some reason. I focus on the lack of attention the mother had overall--the mother's selfish concern to her own overly done sex life just one part of that. This has nothing to do with a kid finding and enjoying porn on occasion. -
Why do some people have such a hard time seeing things as a whole. My post above is one possible situation, there are far worse. None of the above is acceptable it is all irresponsible. A child educated, we agree on this. A child should also be protected.
A child growng up in a responsible home who happens to stumble across a porn film his mother finds out and sits him down and discusses it openly with him. Hopefully this will allow him to respect the nature of the beast so to speak.
If a boy were to grow up influenced by a violent woman hating father then stumble across this stuff who knows how he might turn out.
Porn is too easily accessable these days its everywhere. Thrown in your face if you dont protect yourself. This is wrong. If someone wants to get off on a porn film fine but keep it discreetly available. -
"Why do some people have such a hard time seeing things as a whole. My post above is one possible situation, there are far worse."
I discussed other possibilties. A kid finding porn is the least threatening possibility.
"If a boy were to grow up influenced by a violent woman hating father then stumble across this stuff who knows how he might turn out."
What is the alternative? He has a violent, woman hating father but NEVER stumbles across porn and all the sudden he's practically Jesus? If his violent father influences him to be violent and hate women, then he will be violent and hate women. If he discovers sex through porn or through life, he will also be the type of asshole that thinks he can take what he wants from girls. Porn has nothing to do with this.
"Porn is too easily accessable these days its everywhere. Thrown in your face if you dont protect yourself"
I don't know about that. It's easy to find if you want to, but I don't have to keep my head down while walking around or surfing the net. Don't look for it if you don't want it.
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The lineVoted for by Dwn.
Seduction is the act of atempting to atract the sexual desires of another.
Coercion, as it pertains to sex, is atempting to force another to submit to your sexual desires,
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Does seduction have to be about sex. People coerce in order to gain something and it's not just sex, is the seduction the same?
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Yeah I believe sedution can also be viewed in that light, most generaly its refered to as salesmanship though.
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ha ha ha well said
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Follow a Woman's Cue, And PUSH SomeVoted for by david13.
Seduction is the art of following a woman's cues. When she wants sex she will offer subtle hints. It is a progression that starts from HER being attracted to you. So actually, a man must be on display, not the woman. A woman will test a man. If a man does not coerce from one step to the next then she will reject him. A man, an experienced man knows how to progress from step 1 to step 10. Between those steps are bands that must be leaped, much like the electron into higher orbits of an atom. If a woman cues a man to come over at a bar because she's interested, the man would come over and introduce himself and show that he is safe by respecting her boundaries, that is by not getting too close or remarking on her outward appearance. A guy who does not know the art of seduction would go over and say something like, "I couldn't help but notice your beautiful eyes", or something that places him BELOW the woman's power. A man must always be ABOVE the woman. That is why he must PUSH because he has to get her to HIS level in order to consumate. Most men fail because they drop DOWN to HER level in order to get sex. And when that doesn't work (it never does) he uses force. A man's job is to push which is a very slight form of coercion. The art is to know how to bring her to your level by pulling her closer to you, not pushing her into your realm.
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Thanks for confirming my suspicions about most men :) Where is the respect and friendship in the above or does it not exist because you are simply refering to sexual pursuit?
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Don't Deny Sex
Applehead, what is there to be suspicious about men? A man desires sex. There. I let the cat out of the bag. That is a property of man. Men who deny this, deny their very existence. Men who deny this go against what a woman is looking for: a man who is strong enough to protect her space so that she is able to receive love. Sexual pursuit is the internal religion to see God. Most men drop this pursuit because they have never been taught how to mate. Men lose confidence because they cannot achieve their greatest internal desire, and on top of that society, religion and the feminists have beaten men down making them ashamed of even thinking of sex and its pursuit. Sex is an addictive activity because it motivates a man to get to know women. After about 100 conquests, a man will start to have gotten his fill and start seeing more clearly. No one has given men this opportunity. Their spirits have been broken. Women hold the secret to Love. Men must get through sex to get to Love. Are you offering men a chance to get there? A man is but a woman with 100X a woman's libido. Give them a little. You'll get a lot more in return.
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Esfuerzo
***You make it sound like a fight or a competitive sport*** Esfuerzo, when I read your opening line I almost fell out of my chair...lol. -
< Esfuerzo
When beggin' works let me know. -
I think ...
...you may be onto something David....i do agree somewhat with what you say. and your words are inspiring me to go out and pursue girls and woman as sex objects and nothing else...because in the end that’s what we are built for. after all society, religion and feminism have just tainted our animalistic needs to fornicate with anything that walks. thank you for showing me that women are lesser beings who need to be helped up to our level by sex, but why respect the boundaries of females? when it is us who truly have the power to coerce or force. careful David. yes we desire sex and want it, but it is as much a woman’s influence as it is ours, what you seem to be talking about is power. And as soon as you put to much power into one person, you will corrupt them.
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whicheverVoted for by grant.
does the trick.
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Really ha ha. not much respect for women then?
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What ya mean? Women love being seduced and so do I.
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Your words "Whichever does the trick" Do women like to be coerced?
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If they're being coerced they, at some level, must want to be. The level i'm refering to is an unconscious one. Unconscious wants are still wants. The only real trick is to become conscious of one's wants so one can make conscious choices about changing one's wants if one wants to.
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"If they’re being coerced they, at some level, must want to be." Oh dear.. seduced yes, coerced maybe if she's a bit of a masochist. A few women may be blind to coercion simply because they hope that they might find a decent man not because they want it.
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Also fear and manipulation are incredibly deceiving. Persuasion coupled with threats can often lead to compliance.
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You are assuming "they" (male or female) have a generalised concept of "decent". It is all so relative. If someone is looking for a father or mother in the other sex due to their childhood memory of emotionally distant parents then "decent" could mean anything. For every coercer there is a coercee. THey are mutually attractive to each other.
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the coercer makes the coercee, the coercee becomes because she/him doesnt know he is being coerced. simple.
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Simple as in thick.
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naive, inexperienced, misguided or maybe thick. Which one are you?
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I can't comment much on this subject but if any adult man shows affection to younger children they should be locked up and thrown in jail forever. Adults know better...children don't.
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yes because affection from an adult male is bad, okay...
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"For every coercer there is a coercee. THey are mutually attractive to each other."
Freud said something along those lines
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pnktrky
November 28, 2006
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Applehead
November 29, 2006
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