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There are 16 choices, 24 votes for CHeRRy-bLoSSoM808's debate

Christian Vs. Catholic (What’s the REAL difference)

what is the real diffrence from being christian and being catholic? i think its a really good topic starter?

please do not get this topic wrong.. it is to speak your own mind and not to critisize or talk bad about the topic....

"whats your opinion?"

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian

Being a Christian is not a denomination. Catholocism is a Christian denomination. Being Christian is simply a matter of believing that Jesus died for our sins and was resurected from the dead. It is simply accepting the fact that all men are sinners, including ourselves and accepting the grace that God provided through the sacrifice of his son.

There is no Christian VS Catholic any more than there is Christian VS Baptist or Methodist or any other denomination.

Now if you were referring to differences between protestant and catholic, that is a different issue. But even there the differences are based in tedium and differences in tradition. Both incorporate the same God and the same saviour.
16% Voted for by Violet Moodswing, Brain Fetus, tfry, darkscorpia.
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- mudgod
  December 16, 2006
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  Yes, but
  So, to be considered a vegetarian, you only need to believe in vegetables, right? Or to be considered a mechanic, you only need to believe in machines? No. And neither can one be a Christian by only believing in Christ. You have to be a follower of Christ. You have to believe what He belives. You have to keep the rules that He keeps. Jesus said,"if you love me, keep the commandments." How many worship without idols such as crucifixes, statues, or stained glass symbols (2nd commandment)? How many keep the seventh day sabbath, from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown (4th commandment)? Not very many. Jesus said that many would come in His name saying that He (Jesus) was the Christ and deceive many. He also said that you make the commandments of God of no effect because you instead keep the traditions of men.
- - pnktrky
    December 23, 2006
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    do you even know his cammandments cause those werent it. those are moses`s cammandments his where this: You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul; you shall love your neighbor as yourself. these are his cammandments. if you accomplish this then you are a real Christian. to summerize it all to make it easier for you... LOVE(action ver.
  - Xelgaroth
    August 13, 2007
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    Actually Mud, God never specifies, at least in the new testament, when or where the Sabbath is. While true it is that most Christians keep the sabbath on Suday mornings in churches, all that's really needed is "fellowship" and "worship" and "rest" To be with other Christians and worship God, without the distractions of work. It doesn't say "it must be this day." You could have it on a wednesday afternoon if you like, although it's more convenient obviously on Sundays, when most people close for the weekend. You could gather in someone's house, or perhaps in caves or seculded areas (as the early Christians did shortly after the ascension) or you can go to a church and worship there, I don't think God makes much fuss over it, so long as you set just one day a week aside for the Sabbath.
- Violet Moodswing
  December 16, 2006
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  :)
  Actually, I am a vegetarian too.
  
  All denomonations are steeped in the traditions of men. Only God knows the human heart so we humans aren't in much of a possition to judge. I believe deeply in the fact that I am saved by grace and grace alone. Grace is a free gift that I do not deserve, nor does any other human being. I will not point fingers at any other human because I am judged in the same manner that I judge others. We all have dirt under the rug somewhere even if we have it neatly tucked away where we can no longer see it. So best to simply be humble before the Lord and allow him to deal with our hearts.
  
  I have enough stuff to clean up on my side of the street to keep me busy enough not to worry so much about yours
  
  My point was that there is no Catholic vs Christian. It is just another Christian denomination filled with religous leaders who are sometimes filled with the spirit of the Pharisee just like all the other christian religious denominations. Denomination does not provide salvation. Denomination does not prove the heart of a man. In fact, following all the rules does not prove the heart of a man either. It simply proves that he follows the rules.
  
  At best, we all only make feeble attempts to walk as Jesus did. I am not without fault so I don't throw stones.
- mudgod
  December 23, 2006
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  None of us is without fault, But Jesus said,"be perfect as my Father in heaven is perfect." We need to be working toward that perfection. We can only achieve it with Gods help, but He is not going to give us a free ticket. If you are not doing it Jesus' way you are none of His. He said so Himself.
- pnktrky
  December 26, 2006
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  those that are my family are those that keep my cammandments.
- Brain Fetus
  February 18, 2007
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  I'm a Catholic and a vegetarian. I believe the pope is ridiculed because he's the head of the church and he is so much in the public eye. Really what is the difference between the Pope and any other head of a denomination? The Pope does make changes to the practices of Catholics, but these are always needed changes. I was just having this conversation today. In the middle east the problem with a lot of the very religious sects of Islam is that they don't have a religious leader willing to change with the times. When the Quaran has to be read literally like it has since the 500's without taking into acccount social changes, then inevitably there are going to be problems. As long as There is Love there, faith and hope, it is good when a religion can change with the times. I don't mean change the entire religion, I just mean update the practices that are outdated or don't lead to the true point of the religion.
  
  On being a vegetarian, you don't have to believe in vegetables to be a vegetarian, all you have to do is not eat meat. But being a vegan requires a little bit of insanity.
- Christopher Chanco
  June 5, 2007
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  Lazarus was resurrected through the power of Jesus; Jesus resurrected on His own accord.
- udo
  June 8, 2007
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  catholic-muslim-christian
  i have been concerned with the times we live in Turkey april this year christians are being killed because they are not muslim,
  
  Date: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 7:38 PM
  Subject: A letter to the Global Church from The Protestant Church of Smyrna
  This past week has been filled with much sorrow. Many of you have heard by now of our devastating loss here in an event that took place in Malatya, a Turkish province 300 miles northeast of Antioch, the city where believers were first called Christians (Acts 11:26).
  On Wednesday morning, April 18, 2007, 46 year old German missionary and father of three Tilman Geske prepared to go to his office, kissing his wife goodbye taking a moment to hug his son and give him the priceless memory, "Goodbye, son. I love you."
  Tilman rented an office space from Zirve Publishing where he was preparing notes for the new Turkish Study Bible. Zirve was also the location of the Malatya Evangelist Church office. A ministry of the church, Zirve prints and distributes Christian literature to Malatya and nearby cities in Eastern Turkey. In another area of town, 35 year old Pastor Necati Aydin, father of two, said goodbye to his wife, leaving for the office as well. They had a morning Bible Study and prayer meeting that some other believers in town would also be attending. Ugur Yuksel likewise made his way to the Bible study.
  None of these three men knew that what awaited them at the Bible study was the ultimate testing and application of their faith, which would conclude with their entrance into glory to receive their crown of righteousness from Christ and honor from all the saints awaiting them in the Lord's presence.
  On the other side of town, ten young men all under 20 years old put into place final arrangements for their ultimate act of faith, living out their love for Allah and hatred of infidels who they felt undermined Islam.
  On Resurrection Sunday, five of these men had been to a by-invitation-only evangelistic service that Pastor Necati and his men had arranged at a hotel conference room in the city. The men were known to the believers as "seekers." No one knows what happened in the hearts of those men as they listened to the gospel. Were they touched by the Holy Spirit? Were they convicted of sin? Did they hear the gospel in their heart of hearts? Today we only have the beginning of their story.
  These young men, one of whom is the son of a mayor in the Province of Malatya, are part of a tarikat, or a group of "faithful believers" in Islam. Tarikat membership is highly respected here; it's like a fraternity membership. In fact, it is said that no one can get into public office without membership in a tarikat. These young men all lived in the same dorm, all preparing for university entrance exams.
  The young men got guns, breadknives, ropes and towels ready for their final act of service to Allah. They knew there would be a lot of blood. They arrived in time for the Bible Study, around 10 o'clock.
  They arrived, and apparently the Bible Study began. Reportedly, after Necati read a chapter from the Bible the assault began. The boys tied Ugur, Necati, and Tilman's hands and feet to chairs and as they videoed their work on their cellphones, they tortured our brothers for almost three hours*
  [Details of the torture--
  *Tilman was stabbed 156 times, Necati 99 times and Ugur's stabs were too numerous to count. They were disemboweled, and their intestines sliced up in front of their eyes. They were emasculated and watched as those body parts were destroyed. Fingers were chopped off, their noses and mouths and anuses were sliced open. Possibly the worst part was watching as their brothers were likewise tortured. Finally, their throats were sliced from ear to ear, heads practically decapitated.]
  Neighbors in workplaces near the printhouse said later they had heard yelling, but assumed the owners were having a domestic argument so they did not respond.
  Meanwhile, another believer Gokhan and his wife had a leisurely morning. He slept in till 10, ate a long breakfast and finally around 12:30 he and his wife arrived at the office. The door was locked from the inside, and his key would not work. He phoned and though it had connection on his end he did not hear the phone ringing inside. He called cell phones of his brothers and finally Ugur answered his phone. "We are not at the office. Go to the hotel meeting. We are there. We will come there," he said cryptically. As Ugur spoke Gokhan heard in the telephone's background weeping and a strange snarling sound.
  He phoned the police, and the nearest officer arrived in about five minutes. He pounded on the door, "Police, open up!" Initially the officer thought it was a domestic disturbance. At that point they heard another snarl and a gurgling moan. The police understood that sound as human suffering, prepared the clip in his gun and tried over and over again to burst through the door. One of the frightened assailants unlocked the door for the policeman, who entered to find a grisly scene.
  Tilman and Necati had been slaughtered, practically decapitated with their necks slit from ear to ear. Ugur's throat was likewise slit and he was barely alive.
  Three assailants in front of the policeman dropped their weapons.
  Meanwhile Gokhan heard a sound of yelling in the street. Someone had fallen from their third story office. Running down, he found a man on the ground, whom he later recognized, named Emre Gunaydin. He had massive head trauma and, strangely, was snarling. He had tried to climb down the drainpipe to escape, and losing his balance had plummeted to the ground. It seems that he was the main leader of the attackers. Another assailant was found hiding on a lower balcony.
  To untangle the web we need to back up six years. In April 2001, the National Security Council of Turkey (Milli Guvenlik Kurulu) began to consider evangelical Christians as a threat to national security, on equal footing as Al Quaida and PKK terrorism. Statements made in the press by political leaders, columnists and commentators have fueled a hatred against missionaries who they claim bribe young people to change their religion.
  After that decision in 2001, attacks and threats on churches, pastors and Christians began. Bombings, physical attacks, verbal and written abuse are only some of the ways Christians are being targetted. Most significant is the use of media propaganda.
  From December 2005, after having a long meeting regarding the Christian threat, the wife of Former Prime Minister Ecevit, historian Ilber Ortayli, Professor Hasan Unsal, Politician Ahmet Tan and writer/propogandist Aytunc Altindal, each in their own profession began a campaign to bring the public's attention to the looming threat of Christians who sought to "buy their children's souls". Hidden cameras in churches have taken church service footage and used it sensationally to promote fear and antagonism toward Christianity.
  In an official televised response from Ankara, the Interior Minister of Turkey smirked as he spoke of the attacks on our brothers. Amid public outrage and protests against the event and in favor of freedom of religion and freedom of thought, media and official comments ring with the same message, "We hope you have learned your lesson. We do not want Christians here."
  It appears that this was an organized attack initiated by an unknown adult tarikat leader. As in the Hrant Dink murder in January 2007, and a Catholic priest Andrea Santoro in February 2006, minors are being used to commit religious murders because public sympathy for youth is strong and they face lower penalties than an adult convicted of the same crime. Even the parents of these children are in favor of the acts. The mother of the 16 year old boy who killed the Catholic priest Andrea Santoro looked at the cameras as her son was going to prison and said, "he will serve time for Allah."
  The young men involved in the killing are currently in custody. Today news reported that they would be tried as terrorists, so their age would not affect the strict penalty. Assailant Emre Gunaydin is still in intensive care. The investigation centers around him and his contacts and they say will fall apart if he does not recover.
  The Church in Turkey responded in a way that honored God as hundreds of believers and dozens of pastors flew in as fast as they could to stand by the small church of Malatya and encourage the believers, take care of legal issues, and represent Christians to the media.
  When Susanne Tilman expressed her wish to bury her husband in Malatya, the Governor tried to stop it, and when he realized he could not stop it, a rumor was spread that "it is a sin to dig a grave for a Christian." In the end, in an undertaking that should be remembered in Christian history forever, the men from the church in Adana (near Tarsus), grabbed shovels and dug a grave for their slain brother in an un-tended hundred year old Armenian graveyard.
  Ugur was buried by his family in an Alevi Muslim ceremony in his hometown of Elazig, his believing fiance watching from the shadows as his family and friends refused to accept in death the faith Ugur had so long professed and died for.
  Necati's funeral took place in his hometown of Izmir, the city where he came to faith. The darkness does not understand the light. Though the churches expressed their forgiveness for the event, Christians were not to be trusted. Before they would load the coffin onto the plane from Malatya, it went through two separate xray exams to make sure it was not loaded with explosives. This is not a usual procedure for Muslim coffins.
  Necati's funeral was a beautiful event. Like a glimpse of heaven, thousands of Turkish Christians and missionaries came to show their love for Christ, and their honor for this man chosen to die for Christ. Necati's wife Shemsa told the world, "His death was full of meaning, because he died for Christ and he lived for Christ. Necati was a gift from God. I feel honored that he was in my life, I feel crowned with honor. I want to be worthy of that honor."
  Boldly the believers took their stand at Necati's funeral, facing the risks of being seen publicly and likewise becoming targets. As expected, the anti-terror police attended and videotaped everyone attending the funeral for their future use. The service took place outside at Buca Baptist church, and he was buried in a small Christian graveyard in the outskirts of Izmir.
  Two assistant Governors of Izmir were there solemnly watching the event from the front row. Dozens of news agencies were there documenting the events with live news and photographs. Who knows the impact the funeral had on those watching? This is the beginning of their story as well. Pray for them.
  In an act that hit front pages in the largest newspapers in Turkey, Susanne Tilman in a television interview expressed her forgiveness. She did not want revenge, she told reporters. "Oh God, forgive them for they know not what they do," she said, wholeheartedly agreeing with the words of Christ on Calvary (Luke 23:34).
  In a country where blood-for-blood revenge is as normal as breathing, many many reports have come to the attention of the church of how this comment of Susanne Tilman has changed lives. One columnist wrote of her comment, "She said in one sentence what 1000 missionaries in 1000 years could never do."
  The missionaries in Malatya will most likely move out, as their families and children have become publicly identified as targets to the hostile city. The remaining 10 believers are in hiding. What will happen to this church, this light in the darkness? Most likely it will go underground. Pray for wisdom, that Turkish brothers from other cities will go to lead the leaderless church. Should we not be concerned for that great city of Malatya, a city that does not know what it is doing? (Jonah 4:11)
  When our Pastor Fikret Bocek went with a brother to give a statement to the Security Directorate on Monday they were ushered into the Anti-Terror Department. On the wall was a huge chart covering the whole wall listing all the terrorist cells in Izmir, categorized. In one prominent column were listed all the evangelical churches in Izmir. The darkness does not understand the light. "These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also." (Acts 17:6)
  Please pray for the Church in Turkey. "Don't pray against persecution, pray for perseverence," urges Pastor Fikret Bocek.
  The Church is better having lost our brothers; the fruit in our lives, the renewed faith, the burning desire to spread the gospel to quench more darkness in Malatya .all these are not to be regretted. Pray that we stand strong against external opposition and especially pray that we stand strong against internal struggles with sin, our true debilitating weakness.
  This we know. Christ Jesus was there when our brothers were giving their lives for Him. He was there, like He was when Stephen was being stoned in the sight of Saul of Tarsus.
  Someday the video of the deaths of our brothers may reveal more to us about the strength that we know Christ gave them to endure their last cross, about the peace the Spirit of God endowed them with to suffer for their beloved Savior. But we know He did not leave their side. We know their minds were full of Scripture strengthening them to endure, as darkness tried to subdue the unsubduable Light of the Gospel. We know, in whatever way they were able, with a look or a word, they encouraged one another to stand strong. We know they knew they would soon be with Christ.
  We don't know the details. We don't know the kind of justice that will or will not be served on this earth.
  But we pray-- and urge you to pray-- that someday at least one of those five boys will come to faith because of the testimony in death of Tilman Geske, who gave his life as a missionary to his beloved Turks, and the testimonies in death of Necati Aydin and Ugur Yuksel, the first martyrs for Christ out of the Turkish Church.
  Reported by Darlene N. Bocek (24 April 2007)
  Please please please pass this on to as many praying Christians as you can, in as many countries as you can.
  not to long ago christians were being killed for reading the bible by the catholic church;
  the pope kissed the the muslim bible mid last year http://www.cephasministry.com:80/world_pope_black_magick.html
  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp
- TeChNoWC
  June 10, 2007
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  Jesus did not resurrect of his own accord at all, because Jesus said that He did nothing of His own accord, but the will of His Father in heaven.
- Seshat Kitty
  January 31, 2008
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  God said in the commandments, to have no idols and no other gods but Him. Catholics pray to mary, Christians do not.
- rosesofpassion
  February 23, 2008
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  Hey there, I think there is a big difference between Christianity and Catholicism. They aren't even closely related. First of all, even though they both believe in baptism, Catholics baptize babies because the parents want and choose to have them baptized. Christians are baptized when they are old enough to realize they are sinners and choose themselves to be baptized. Catholics worship St. Mary and other prophets. Christians worship the true God. Both Catholics and Christians have communion, a time to remember Christ's death and ressurection. But, when Catholics take communion, they believe that when the pope blesses the bread and wine that the bread and wine actually transforms into the blood and body of Christ. This belief is called transubstantiation. Christians believe that bread and wine are only symbols to Christ's death and ressurection. Also, Christians don't have a pope as a mediator between Christ and man. Christians believe Jesus became the mediator between God and man when Jesus died. Catholics believe that when a person dies, they go to purgatory, a place between Heaven and Hell, and with enough prayer, that person is able to be released from purgatory and go on to heaven. Christians believe that a person either goes to Heaven or Hell, not to an inbetween place that results in you going to Heaven anyway. If a person believes in Christ and His death and has asked for His forgiveness of sins, then they become a Christian and will, at the end of their life, go to Heaven, providing that they walk faithfully in God's way. Every other sinner that has not accepted God's blessing of forgiveness will go to Hell. My friend, there are many other differences, and I could talk on and on, but I must be on my way. Good day.
- Molzahn
  April 23, 2008
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  Hey cowardly Catholic
  Try some witty insults next time, I hear it might alleviate those homo-erotic fantasies of yours.
- Molzahn
  April 23, 2008
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  Hey cowardly Catholic
  Try some witty insults next time, I hear it might alleviate those homo-erotic fantasies of yours.
- Carpool
  July 25, 2008
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  The first commandment is not breached when there is prayer to saints
  What is your definition of 'communion of saints'? It has changed since the Reformation. There is a communion of saints; saints that have died on earth are not 'dead' saints, they are more alive than you or I. And they can pray for us to the Lord, they indeed can hear our prayers. In the book of Revelation, the saints in heaven carry the prayers of the saints on earth to the Lord in the form of incense.
- Carpool
  July 25, 2008
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  you contradict yourself
  the apostles told Christains to pray for one another - are you making yourself an intercessor if you pray for your loved ones?
- Carpool
  July 25, 2008
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  Christ's Chruch
  Jesus built HIS Church on the rock of Peter(petros/cephas - means 'rock'). Jesus established the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. 'and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it' and 'i will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, that whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven'. And Peter has successors, and he appointed Bishops(e.g. St. Ignatious of Antioch) and the Catholic CHurch of Jesus Christ compiled the Bible in the 4th century. And the reformers 1,500 years later decided to make up their own beliefs and chop up the Bible until it fit those beliefs. I agree, God is not the author of confusion, the Christian faith remained unchanged(in the face of all concievable heresy and corruption within its own churches) until a bunch of 'Reformers' decided that they would be their own authority(essentially making themselves thier own 'popes').
- mudgod
  September 15, 2008
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  There are many. Seventh Day Adventists and many of the Churches of God (Of which I belong to one). There are many others though. Here is a link that might interest you (it is a quick read).
  
  http://members.aol.com/KHoeck2/notes.html
- koshkosh77
  October 12, 2008
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  yes, Seventh-day Adventists.
  
  Sabbath-worshipers.
- koshkosh77
  October 12, 2008
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  yes, Seventh-day Adventists.
  
  Sabbath-worshipers.
- koshkosh77
  October 12, 2008
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  yes, Seventh-day Adventists.
  
  Sabbath-worshipers.
- koshkosh77
  October 12, 2008
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  yes, Seventh-day Adventists.
  
  Sabbath-worshipers.
- Sganet
  January 11
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  Lazarus got resurrected, then he died again. Jesus died for our sins, and resurrected in 3 days and rise to heaven, just as he said he would...
  
  Imagine declaring that you would make a half court basket in basketball while blindfolded, at the same time pointing one finger from your right hand touching the tip of your nose, your left foot touching your right knee facing away from the basket you are aiming for, while teaching your mom about how to use UNIX with bluetooth and MAKE THE SHOT FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE(money, cloths, cars...etc). It would take a miracle to say that you would make it, and actually making it.
  
  FYI, you can also see a difference in the fact that Jesus resurrected Lazarus :]
- Sganet
  January 11
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  Lazarus got resurrected, then he died again. Jesus died for our sins, and resurrected in 3 days and rise to heaven, just as he said he would...
  
  Imagine declaring that you would make a half court basket in basketball while blindfolded, at the same time pointing one finger from your right hand touching the tip of your nose, your left foot touching your right knee facing away from the basket you are aiming for, while teaching your mom about how to use UNIX with bluetooth and MAKE THE SHOT FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE(money, cloths, cars...etc). It would take a miracle to say that you would make it, and actually making it.
  
  FYI, you can also see a difference in the fact that Jesus resurrected Lazarus :]
- Sganet
  January 11
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  Lazarus got resurrected, then he died again. Jesus died for our sins, and resurrected in 3 days and rise to heaven, just as he said he would...
  
  Imagine declaring that you would make a half court basket in basketball while blindfolded, at the same time pointing one finger from your right hand touching the tip of your nose, your left foot touching your right knee facing away from the basket you are aiming for, while teaching your mom about how to use UNIX with bluetooth and MAKE THE SHOT FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE(money, cloths, cars...etc). It would take a miracle to say that you would make it, and actually making it.
  
  FYI, you can also see a difference in the fact that Jesus resurrected Lazarus :]
- Sganet
  January 11
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  .
  Lazarus got resurrected, then he died again. Jesus died for our sins, and resurrected in 3 days and rise to heaven, just as he said he would...
  
  Imagine declaring that you would make a half court basket in basketball while blindfolded, at the same time pointing one finger from your right hand touching the tip of your nose, your left foot touching your right knee facing away from the basket you are aiming for, while teaching your mom about how to use UNIX with bluetooth and MAKE THE SHOT FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE(money, cloths, cars...etc). It would take a miracle to say that you would make it, and actually making it.
  
  FYI, you can also see a difference in the fact that Jesus resurrected Lazarus :]
- mudgod
  January 11
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  Why do so many say they believe IN God, but don't BELIEVE Him? The scriptures are plain and clear. It says "keep the commandments". It doesn't say keep the cammandmants you want to keep, or just keep the ones you like when it makes you feel good. Jesus said those who say they know Him and don't keep the commandmants are liars and He wants no part of them. There is God's way and there is Satan's way, which way are you going? There is only one other way to go if you are not going God's way. Any other way is a false way. Wake up folks, the time is very, very short.
- mudgod
  January 11
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  Why do so many say they believe IN God, but don't BELIEVE Him? The scriptures are plain and clear. It says "keep the commandments". It doesn't say keep the cammandmants you want to keep, or just keep the ones you like when it makes you feel good. Jesus said those who say they know Him and don't keep the commandmants are liars and He wants no part of them. There is God's way and there is Satan's way, which way are you going? There is only one other way to go if you are not going God's way. Any other way is a false way. Wake up folks, the time is very, very short.
- abigail- - -
  January 11
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  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
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  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Good points.
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- abigail- - -
  January 11
  Edit | Reply
  
  Almost everything you said was true.
  and you definitely know what you're talking about.
  I especially like your first point.
  
  There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.
  
  Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
  
  note the last line especially.
  i can give you other passages if you'd like.
  I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?
  
  This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.
  
  note these passages::
  Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.
  
  -and-
  
  Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
  
  thanks, abby (:
- esther95727
  June 13
  Edit | Reply
  
  :)
  Yes there is a difference. Jesus never taught to pray to other "saints". Jesus never taught that you pray to his mother. The catholics will say that they are "asking" for the saint or whoever to intercede for them when Jesus clearly said that HE is the way, the truth, and the life. This is the main difference that I have noticed. Catholics were NOT the first Christians, the Christians who were with Him were the first ones. The catholics did not come along until the Romans figured out it would be handy to control the Christians and put together their form of "worship".
- Keaira
  2 days ago
  Edit | Reply
  
  This is pointless.
  Seriously. You're all arguing about things that cannot be proven by science or any physical evidence. And, if Mary was God's mother, wouldn't that be incest, in some way, if we're all the sons and daughters of God? I mean, the Holy Spirit (who is God) came upon Mary...his daughter, and got her pregnant? That's awkward.
  And without a biological father, Jesus would only have half the chromosomal pairs he would need to be human, and therefore...not be human...and extremely messed up on a cellular level. I mean, Downs patients only have one extra chromosome (47), and look what happens to them, imagine if a person only had 23.
  So, yeah. Honestly, this is all crap. The point of this is to imitate the life of a kind, generous, and selfless man to become a better person and make the world a better place, not to quibble over useless details that cannot be proven either way. (The Devil is in the details.)
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Adding your reply:
Your Comment:

Catholic Answer

To reply to all of you about what YOU THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT CATHOLICISM - how many of you Catholic-bashers have ever studied the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Anyway I'm posting a general reply to all your ignorant statements(haven't been here in a long while).
I'm trying to make this short so if you need me to elaborate just ask.

Mary as the mother of God:
This simple statement of fact should be a "case closed" situation that could be argued with a classic syllogism:

Jesus is God
Mary is the mother of Jesus
Mary is the mother of God

But some people still balk at referring to Mary as God's mother. The only way they can get around that fact, though, is to do one of the following:

deny that Christ is God (heresy);

deny that He is both fully human and fully God and that those two natures are in perfect hypostasis and can't be divided (heresy);

deny that Jesus is the Son of Mary (heresy); or

claim that Jesus was God before His incarnation, but not while He was in the flesh (heresy).

Luke 1:43 tells us of Elisabeth greeting Mary with, "And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
It's all very simple. The heresy of Nestorianism(belief that Mary is not Theotokos/mother of God) was refuted by the early Christians. Why are we re-visiting this heresy?

Sunday worship:
If you are of the opinion that the Catholic Church ruthlessly, without warrant, and in violation of God's law, played with the Decalogue and instituted Sunday as the day of worship, you are, in fact, admitting that the VERY earliest Christians were, indeed, Catholic.

St. Ignatius, friend of the Apostle Peter and apppointed by him as the Bishop of Antioch, wrote in his first century Epistle to the Ephesians:

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death -- whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master -- how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead." ... Be ye salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour ye shall be convicted. It is absurd to profess Christ Jesus, and to Judaize. For Christianity did not embrace Judaism, but Judaism Christianity, that so every tongue which believeth might be gathered together to God."

From the first century Didache, Chapter 14, "Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day":

"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Letter of Barnabas 15:6-8, written in A.D. 74, at the end of a few paragraphs on the old Jewish Shabat vs. the Christian Lord's Day, wrote:

"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead."

Prayer to Saints:
Don't all Christians believe in the communion of saints? I suppose you have a different definition than the original/Catholic one.
First a definition: "To pray," as a verb, has two very distinct meanings:

1 : to make a request in a humble manner
2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving
It is only in this first sense that Catholics "pray" to saints. "To pray" is simply to ask, and it is a common English word as these examples will show: "Comes now Petitioner and, having filed his Motion in Limine, prays this Honorable Court to grant..." or "I pray thee, sir, might I borrow your book?". In the first instance, the Petitioner is not worshipping the Court. In the second, the potential book-borrower is not worshipping the book owner. And if I ever ask you, "Where have you been, pray tell?" I am not worshipping you, trust me!

All worship in the sense of latria is God's alone. All grace comes from God alone. Only Christ can save us. Please read these three sentences again; they are core Catholic doctrine as taught for 2,000 years.

OK, so why pray to saints? We pray to saints to ask them to pray for us, in the same way you might pray for me if I ask and I would pray for you if you ask. Christians are called to pray for each other: James 5:16 "Pray one for another... The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." I imagine that this isn't controversial for you!

'Graven Images':

"Veneration & 'Woship' of graven images:
God's prohibition against "graven images" (pecel is the relevant Hebrew word, which the Jews translated as "eidoloi", i.e. "idols," in the Septuagint) in the First Commandment (or Second Commandment, depending on your numbering system of the Decalogue) in no way prohibits art; it's a prohibition against the making of idols, i.e., false gods. This can be the ONLY interpretation of this Commandment for any other interpretation would make a liar out of God -- blasphemy! He commands Moses to make a fiery serpent (Numbers 21:8) and commands the Israelites to adorn the Ark of the Covenant with statues of gilded cherubim (Exodus 25 and Exodus 26). Solomon's Temple was dripping in ornateness -- carved cherubim, palm trees, open flowers (I Kings 6) -- and it was commanded to be so by God (1 Chronicles 28:18-19). Ezekiel's visionary Temple (Ezekiel 41) was likewise filled with statuary... And what to make of interior of the 3rd c. Dura Europus Synagogue, literally covered in frescoes Or the decoration of the 4th c. Hammath Synagogues near Tiberias? From the very earliest times, Christians have used images to aid in worship. Here is how 19th c. archaeologist Rodolfo Lanciani describes his investigation of just one single area of the Christian Catacombs:

When, on December 19, I entered the cubiculum no. 54, in which the paintings are, and he began to point out to me the outlines of figures and objects, I thought he was laboring under an optical delusion; I could see nothing beyond a blackened and mouldy plaster surface. My eyes, however, soon became initiated to the new experience, and able to round the lines of this curious palimpsest. The dark spots soon grew into shape, and lovely groups, inspired by the purest Christian symbolism, appeared on the walls. There are thirteen pictures, representing the following-named subjects: the Annunciation, the three Magi following the star (which is shaped like the monogram Chi-Rho), their Adoration at Bethlehem, the Baptism of our Lord, the Last Judgment, the healing of the blind, the woman of Samaria, the Good Shepherd (twice), the Orantes (twice).

Catholics use statuary and other icons in the same way most people use photographs of their children on their desks at the office: to remind them of someone. A statue of Christ reminds us where all salvation comes from. Seeing an icon of Mary reminds us of her humility before her Son and Savior and acts as a "window into Heaven". A statue of St. Francis of Asissi reminds us of his obedience. A statue of Thérèse of Lisieux reminds us that all of us can find sainthood even if we're "little" and "unimportant". And so on.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes very clear the Catholic stance against idolatry:

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."God, however, is the "living God" who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon." Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God." [quoting Origen's Contra Celsum]
If you truly believe, though, that God doesn't want people making statues, icons, or other images at all, for any reason, be sure to contact the Louvre and have them throw out all the Bernini and Michelangelo sculpture and paintings by Rembrandt... We might have to get rid of the Lincoln Memorial and Mount Rushmore, also. Oh, and don't forget to toss out your daughter's dolls, your "Precious Moments" figurines, teddy bear refrigerator magnets, family pictures, and video collection, too!

The problem lies where people WORHIP INANIMATE OBJECTS - an object itself is not harmful.

The Holy Eucharist:
The Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ according to St. John
6 56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
6 57 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him.

6 61 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard; and who can hear it?
6 62 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?

THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS
11 26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.
11 27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
11 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.
11 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

Let me ask to something: you can bring judgement upon yourself for not discerning a SYMBOL? When St. Paul says "For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come" this describes the Catholic mass.

Is there anything else you would like to accuse me of believing in? I'd love to tell you about your Bible also.

12% Voted for by Carpool, IvoryRose, lisasee.

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Adding your comment:
Carpool
July 25, 2008
Edit | Reply

after the Reformation
Slowly all of the ancient heresies refuted by the early Christians staring popping up again until we have 38,000+ Christian denominations. The Reformers used the ANTI-Christian Jewish council of Jamnia and Luther's personal beliefs to remove all of the books of the Bible that are not found in Protestant Bibles. He removed everything that did not seem to support sola scriptura, he added the word 'alone' to Romans when he wrote the German Bible, he even tried to get rid of the book of James and Revelation - it was too 'Catholic' for him! Now if you wonder the true difference between Catholics and everybody else did it ever occur to you that we have different Bibles?
Energizer Bunny
July 27, 2008
Edit | Reply

gulp
Talk about long opinions. By the time I got to the end I could not remember the first half. I guess I need to work on my attention span
Carpool
July 28, 2008
Edit | Reply

FYI
It was not an opinion. This is what Catholics believe and a little history on the Reformation. I just worded it harshly because I'm sick of people always trying to tell me what I believe, like they would know better than I would.
IvoryRose
September 15, 2008
Edit | Reply

Thank you!
Sganet
January 11
Edit | Reply

Well...
Hmm, I start by saying that I respect everyone's opinion while standing on my believes because whenever there there is an argument, you will not win that soul for Christ. I believe that Jesus was all human while he was on earth and all God at the same time, experience similar things as human at that time(from small to the extremes) while making decisions as loving God to be an example to all.

In order to be all human, you have to have an earthly father and earthly mother. Mary is his earthly mother, but she is not a God in anyway, and she is not the mother of God, because she didn't give birth to God, God created her. She was conceived by the holy spirit to give birth to Christ. So I believe she is a servant greatly blessed by God, and there are many things to learn from her by her deeds in the bible, but, to say shes Holy because she gave birth to Jesus Christ... where did that come from? Why would Jesus call her earthly mother "woman" in the bible like God talking to a normal average human being? And she didn't die for us, why pray in her name?

About praying to saints, so that they would pray to God for us?

But, we are all God's sons and daughters, and we pray for each other and God listens to our prayers. Why pray to a dead person? And about the word "Saint", God call us all to be holy in order to glorify Him, and Saint=someone with holiness, we are all to be holy... and I don't understand why another believer need should pray to another believer to pray to God for them. Our relationship to God is a direct relationship, not indirect. I know we are all sinners, but Jesus died for His glory and traded my sins. So when I pray in His name, God listens. I believe that the guilt that people feel when they pray to God tells them, that they are NOT good enough to talk to God directly, but instead they should pray to someone else IS A TOTAL LIE from satan who doesn't want us praying to God, because it knows that my God, my Father in heaven loves me, and listens to my prayers no matter how bad I've been because of His grace. IF my God is unforgiving, unloving, unmerciful, I don't think I would want a relationship.

Thank you, and please do think about my comments and my intentions is not to compete or pointing out who is right or wrong and whatever, but simply to give my perspective of what I received from what I read from the bible. For me, I don't think there is even a church that I can't find something wrong with if I have to, but doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they teach, because anything that comes through a human being can be altered. So I keep an positive open mind with good hopes(that people want to do good for God) and agree to disagree if I have to respectfully, while stand firm on my believe.

God Bless :]
kmg116
January 12
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THANK YOU!
It's about time someone knew what they were talking about! People don't understand that Catholics are praying through the INTERCESSION of the saints! For example, someone suffering bone cancer can pray through the intercession of St. Peregrine (patron saint of bone cancer). He had an experience like that, and his prayers are greater than mine. He prays for me to God as I pray to God, its just always better to have more people praying! Right!? Just as we ask the community to pray for us. It's just a helping hand. People also don't realize that Saints are merely those in Heaven. Those who are proclaimed saints have had several provisions looked over, such as miracles.

Secondly, if anyone believes in the Holy Trinity, then they know that Jesus is God, like you have said. So if I choose to use the word "Jesus" when I pray, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, because I am praying to God.

As for everything else you mentioned, I couldn't have said it better myself.
lisasee
March 4
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WOW!! WOW!! AMAZING!!
I am new (raised Catholic) and just happened upon the site and your comments. Yes, it was lengthy but you held my interest from start to finish. I am definetely lacking in the area of the Bible and religious issues but slowly I curiously find information as I did today. I love that you know your stuff and when called upon or just supplying clarification when reading other's comments you are able to factually have an informed opinion and don't have to rely on using vulgarity or adolescent rantings to cover for a lack of knowledge. Thanks again and I should now quit talking and do a bit more reading, etc. Lisa
- lisasee
  March 21
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  blind faith
  To Lisasee,be cautious to accept statements as truth that are presented to you by a person, or commentary,or church, etc.. Only on the basis of someone telling you, "You Should" In other words,How can there be a verdict without evidence to support it as truth?
  It's up to you to find enough truth in something to sincerely and without doubt, really believe. " The real truth" has to be the truth that you yourself have journeyed to discover. Embark upon your personal inquiry,and search for Gods truth. When you have found God's truth, you will "KNOW " in every cell of your body.Not just "believe"
- - lisasee
    April 4
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    blind faith
    Thank you for your comments and I must say that I am a fact based type of person, usually. That is why this topic is of such interest to me. I am just trying to gather information in an attempt to understand and form my decisions on the knowledge of religion by people such as yourself but keep in mind I am not one to take one's answer as fact. This just gives me more tools to make an informed albeit juvenile at this point decision. I pride myself in knowing that most topics I either have an opinion on or can converse & discuss with others without feeling "stupid". I am on a journey allright, extremely painful as a matter of "fact" but by gathering, searching and really just hoping that a lot of this stuff is in fact fact I can find some peace (relief). I find it funny that I like many of my close contacts gravitate towards religion(s) during a time of grief and loss. So, basically in a very long winded, broken hearted and fragmented way I just say Thank You! Lisasee
lisasee
March 20
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lisasee
Remember, the origin of catholicism began with emperor Constantine's political and economic endorsement of Christ's validity. And Therefore announcing to the entire roman nation that everyone is to follow as believers and abide by and obey Rome's emerging civic policy.The most powerful military,economic wealth,and far reaching republic the world had seen yet. Rome had all the stuff to spread its ideals and tradition to the limits of the known western world. But with very little spreading of scriptural content outside of the chosen few who were keepers of the word. Rome by virtue of might were the owner's and purveyors of the One God. Still the Catholic hierarchy brazenly blurt out that they are of the immediate family of Christ and all others below them in rank are just acquaintances to their holy monarchy. Even today the roman traditions remain resistant to change in the Catholic sphere of influence.Roman Catholic Traditions and rituals who's relevance or basis cant be found in scripture. Thank God for deciding the precise time for the reformation to occur. This blessed event,Which was, and will continue
to be such a sweet victory of justice and testimony to his omnipotence and truth.Still we are all loved and we are all to carry God's message and accept others misunderstanding,with patience,and as believers, there's favor in grace.
- lisasee
  April 4
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  Thank You!
  The more info I receive help's me to make my own decision's and this is a learning experience. lisasee
Applehead
March 28
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We pray and interceed as the "saints" for our fellow man but we do not pray TO the saints we pray TO Jesus who is our High Priest and our WAY to the Father by His grace by faith alone.
princessoflite
March 29
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hi, dont know if anyone knows this but the vatican hasnt had a pope for almost 100 yrs. he became king when the vatican gained sovergnty to become a country. dont know about the babylonian fish head crown that kings of old used to wear. i feel they not the catholics are to blame. truth is light, dont fear it embrasse it.

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differences

fist of anybody who believes in Jesus as the savior is a christian. catholisism is the only christian religion that has been here since jesus´s death. and the real differences are that the catholics have certain believes because the believe in the bible and tradition brought out from the time of Jesus. protestants tend to go to the only bible kinda thing. catholics have sacraments: baptism, first communion, confirmation, marriage, orders, reconseliation, and the euchrist. also in the celebration of the mass the catholics truely believe that in that waffer and that wine Jesus is there. the body blood and divinity of jesus, transubstanciation(something like that). catholics also believe that saints, angels, Mary can interced for us. oh by the way mary did have to be special.. in order for jesus to have been the perfect sacrifice he would have to be consived without original sin, in other words God condenmed adam and eve for this sin and it would be on their descendents. so mary must have been born without original sin in order for jesus to truely be our savior. the heart of the catholic beliefs is ofcourse the euchrist, consecrated waffer. since a catholic truely believes that in that waffer jesus is present at that very moment. remember the wedding at Canaan, mary told jesus to intervine and his response is:"what do you want me to do woman. it is not my time yet." but yet he still did a miracle because his mother told him to. that and certain appearances of mary... ofcourse i know more of our lady of guadalupe. where mary appeared to an indian. and the proof is the clothe that is 475 years old, yesturday Dec 12, where the image of her was placed. i know this cause im catholic and its one of those things that all catholics should know... atleast the basics. i would have to do a little more reaserch to tell you more. and catholics have a pope, which is the only person that can annul a marriage.

8% Voted for by pnktrky, Brain Fetus.

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Brain Fetus
February 14, 2007
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Catholics don't worship Mary persay, she intercedes for us, prays for us.

How can a Christian harbor so much hate for another Christian, be them Catholic or not?
- pnktrky
  June 18, 2007
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  i never said worship... just saying that in order to be saved by jesus, mary would have to have been different from the begining which is something that the protestants tend to ignore or shove to the side. as for what you have stated after that i have no idea why it happenes except that ppl are stupid by definition.
- jaf3t
  August 27, 2008
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  Mary doesn't interced for us or anyone neither the saints. the only one interceding for us is Jesus thats why he died for us to give us eternal life and forgiveness. i think we all agree that Jesus is God and God is Jesus right? so, if God is Jesus and Jesus is God and God is the alpha and omega beginning and end, i think that kinda rules out Mary being Gods mother. God has no beginning and end.
mudgod
May 20, 2007
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I think it is okay to love a man. We are commanded to love everyone, no? The problem is the physical contact. It is sodomy that is the sin, not the love. I don't think that you necessarily lack faith, but rather understanding. God has already shown His love for us. The question is do we love God? How do we show that love? Faith without works is a dead faith. If you want to be close to God, you need to stay celibate. Pray for Him to give you the strength to do it, and He will. If you understood what God is all about, what His plan is for mankind, you would understand why He is so against homosexuality.
- pnktrky
  June 18, 2007
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  be yourself for God created you. by going against yourself you are going against what God has created. i found that once and havent found it since in the bible... mudgod maybe you can help me on that one
- - mudgod
    June 18, 2007
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    If this is what you meant:
    Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
    
    It certainly isn't reason to sin. God made us. We belong to Him to do with as He pleases. Fortunately, what He pleases is to build and beautify us through trials with His Holy Spirit to become perfect in character and eventually heirs with Christ. To be God as God is God.
pnktrky
June 29, 2007
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nope i know that its in the new testament somewhere. that just says how can you go against God for you are the clay and the clay has no power over its creator. unless ofcourse God allows this to happen as part of our free will.
its specifically says about being yourself for God created you.
Energizer Bunny
August 13, 2007
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Mormon??? I strongly suggest you read up on the Mormans.
Xelgaroth
August 13, 2007
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Your statement about the first four commandments being how to love God and the last six how to love your neighbor... I can understand why you say this, but I'm not sure. I would think that In obeying all the commandments, you are loving God, hence "if you love me, keep my commandments" In order to love him, you would have to keep all his commandments, meaning that all ten are how to love God, and also the last six are how to love your neighbor as well. Just a thought.
Lorranna
September 2, 2007
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Catholicism is one of the oldest religions still around. It is very ritualistic, and they are regularly adamant on their faith being of divine importance. They concentrate on what Jesus went thru when he died on the cross. They also believe in the seven sacraments, and that only by those sacraments you get to heaven. They are 1. Baptism, 2. First Communion 3. Confession 4. Confirmation 5. Marriage 6. Holy Orders and 7. Anointing of the Sick
Also, politically they see a need to have a leader for their faith. The Pope,is a mediator between the Catholic Faith and Society and other religions. Catholicism also prays to Saints, or special people denoted by the Pope that made them Saints.
When it comes to the modern day Christian, they mainly go by the Bible. Jesus saved us from our sins, and God did that by giving his Son for us on the Cross. And also follow the ten commandments, the modern day Christian though recognizes other religions like Methodists and Protestants differently and respect them, if you were to go to one of their churches you could recieve communion if you wanted to, if you were to go to a Catholic church you can not recieve communion if you are not Catholic. Catholics have strict beliefs and practices, and follow those throughout life. I was a Catholic, raised Catholic, changed my views and became Weslyan (Which is a Modern Day Methodist-Protestant Based Religion). No religion is right, and no religion is wrong, that IS in the Bible. In the Bible James Chapter 1; Part 26 it says:
26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
And this is what people should remember and believe, you do not need religion you need Him (Jesus).

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just saying!

Mary doesnt intercede for any one neither the saints. thats why Jesus died for us. the only one that intercedes for us is Jesus. just an opinion, Jesus never called mary mother, he always referred to her as women. Y? i think we all agree on that Jesus is God right, and God is the alpha and omega, beginning and end right? so that kind of rules out mary being GODS mother, God is Jesus as well as the holy spirit.

8% Voted for by jaf3t, Sganet.

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Father the son and the holy spirt

some say that Mary is just the mother of god and should not be worshiped... only god the father the son and the holy spirt... also i heard that christians dont use prayers like holy mary, and that they refer to things that are read in the bible...

8% Voted for by CHeRRy-bLoSSoM808, abii2.

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mudgod
December 12, 2006
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If the Bible is the word of God (which it is), then anything that contradicts His word is wrong, no? Example; if you ask the Catholics which is the second commandment, they would say something like, don’t make idols. But the Bible says the second commandment is; (Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Exo 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. ) . See the difference. The Catholic Church is full of statuary, crucifixes, stained glass icons that people stand in front of and worship. God says don’t. Certainly, Christians do not pray to Mary and don’t follow any canned prayers. Their prayers are spoken to the Father as a conversation between a child and parent. Yes, Mary was the mother of Jesus, but beyond that there is no special status. She was human just as we are. Only Jesus has been resurrected, no one else yet. (1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ) . Notice, everyone in their own order. Jesus first then when is the next resurrection? At His coming, how plain and clear this is. Also, the Catholics will say that when you die you go to heaven or hell or some sort of limbo. What does the bible say about the dead? (Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. ) . Again, how plain and clear can you get? So if Mary was human and she is dead and the dead know nothing, what would be the point of praying to her? We won’t go much into the trinity. Suffice it to say that there are only two personages in heaven, God and Jesus. I believe that every instance in the bible that says holy ghost, should be read Holy Spirit. God’s Holy Spirit is the power of God, not a person. I hope this helps to show you some of the differences between fundamental Christianity and Catholicism.
- TeChNoWC
  December 17, 2006
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  Jesus is not the only person to have been resurrected, and not the first either. Lazarus rose from the dead, and so did that boy that Elijah brought back to life. Oh and the army of bones.
- - mudgod
    December 17, 2006
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    Jesus is the first and only one to be resurrected into a spirit being and is alive today.
  - - TeChNoWC
      January 1, 2007
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      Oh, so (Jesus being alive in heaven) Lazarus is no longer alive even in a spiritual sense?
      
      I see no difference between Jesus resurrection and Lazarus'. Please explain further. And if you wish to use Jesus' presence in the world today as your example, you are wrong, because Jesus is not in the world, He is at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit is in the world. And if you wish to use Oneness as your example, it could be argued that Lazarus is also now one with God by being an heir of God, so that argument is null too.
    - - mudgod
        January 1, 2007
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        You fail to see the difference in the resurrections. Consider Hebrews 11:19. Abraham knew that God could raise Isaac from the dead to fulfill His covenant with him. It would have to be a physical resurrection if Isaac was to continue in Abrahams line to be the progenitor of many nations and peoples. And the resurrction of Lazarus was only a physical resurrection too. Just as all the people resurrected after the millenium. They too will be only flesh and blood. Jesus' resurrection, on the other hand, was a spiritual resurrection. The only spiritual resurrection that has ever taken place.
      - TeChNoWC
        January 2, 2007
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        Yeah, I do fail. Are you saying that Lazarus` spirit did not rise again? That he was a walking zombie? Your pulling my leg....
        
        Sganet
        January 11
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        reply
        Lazarus got resurrected, then he died again. Jesus died for our sins, and resurrected in 3 days and rise to heaven, just as he said he would...
        
        Imagine declaring that you would make a half court basket in basketball while blindfolded, at the same time pointing one finger from your right hand touching the tip of your nose, your left foot touching your right knee facing away from the basket you are aiming for, while teaching your mom about how to use UNIX with bluetooth and MAKE THE SHOT FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE(money, cloths, cars...etc). It would take a miracle to say that you would make it, and actually making it.
        
        FYI, you can also see a difference in the fact that Jesus resurrected Lazarus :]
        
        Sganet
        January 11
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        2 cent
        1. Why do you need to pray to saints to pray for you? Why not just pray to God? you are his son/daughter, He loves you knows your deepest thought before you speak. How do you have a relationship, by having a messenger to do the communication?
        
        2. When you accepted God into your life, He already lives in you. If you sin, pray for forgiveness and help, so that he would keep on living in you. Communion is a time to remind all to self check and ask for forgiveness for new sins or repeating weaknesses, the procedure itself does nothing, and if you don't have a heart of repentance, you would be consuming your own sin and insulting Christ's blood.
        
        3. ???
        
        4. Agreed
        
        5. Hmm... well, let me ask you, which sin is worst than another? is there a level of sin? Is there a difference between a man with 1 sin and a man with a million sins? In the end, because we never know when we would go, there is a chance that we might have an unrealized sin at the time that we die. So in the end, always have a repentful heart and ask for forgiveness when you realize you've sinned, but at the same time, have a good relationship with Him. Because chances are, every one of us will go up with a few sin(because we all have blind spots).
        
        I think that purgatory was made up to make people feel better, so that they don't have to worry about a few sin that they don't want to fix. God is merciful, but don't abuse it. Only God knows whether you go to heaven or hell, there is nothing in between. There is no point making people believe that there is a purgatory, just gives them an excuse to be lazy about dealing with their sins.
        
        6. Priest are human, human make mistakes. There are priest that molest children and do all kinds of evilness. How do you know? How do you know if your priest is not anti-christ himself that appears to be an angel from heaven? This is why God wants relationship with you. People don't believe God answer to their prayer because they're afraid that their prayer might fail. Having faith that He will answer you, whether right away, later, yes, no, wait, thru a certain experience, dream, people, and scripture. It doesn't cost you faith to ask a priest to pray for you and tell you an answer that either came from God or just tell you something that agrees with the Bible, but it does take faith to believe that he listens to our prayer, and will answer us when He feels that it is the right timing. Maybe instantly on certain things, or 10 years for something else. But don't stop praying and don't lose faith, God ANSWERS. Don't question that fact, you know its true :] pray, just do it, and believe in such a way that you know if he doesn't answer you, you might get hurt. Never offer up something that cost you nothing.
        
        7. Salvation = Grace + Faith. Going to church doesn't get you salvation, spreading the gospel doesn't get you salvation, donating to the poor doesn't give you salvation, doing all that are just the fruits of your relationship with God, because if He's in you, you should enjoy doing all that but not to think that it will get you into heaven. Not by works, but simply believe and have Faith. FAITH, having a extreme solid Faith could be a life long goal don't you agree? But... how do you have faith? ;]
endsofbread
December 12, 2006
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The difference is the Pope
The Pope has the ability to change Catholicism to whatever he wants. Even the Bible cannot refute him. The Bible is not meant to be read by its followers, only men considered holy enough can read and teach it.
- mudgod
  December 13, 2006
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  not true
- - endsofbread
    December 13, 2006
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    its true. i don't condone it, but its true. If you show a Catholic something in the Bible that clearly contradicts the Pope, they will believe the Pope, because he has more power than the Bible in their eyes.
  - - Violet Moodswing
      December 16, 2006
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      Actually, no it isn't true. I am a Catholic and I don't believe the pope over the bible. I respect him as doing the best he can to lead a Christian denomination, but I read the bible for myself and do not expect ministers, popes, priests or parents to interpret it for me.
      
      I am above all a follower of Christ. Really doesn't matter what folks want to label me, God already knows my heart.
      
      There is no denomination in existance that is not tainted with the hand of man. As a matter of fact, there is no organized religion that is not somehow corrupted by man. True godliness comes entirely from personal experience with God as we understand him and is never dictated by mere humans.
Kazrith
December 13, 2006
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that's why i dont listen to either of them
Energizer Bunny
December 13, 2006
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mudgod
Sorry everyone I got to agree with mudgod on this one.
frndofyaweh
December 13, 2006
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Mudgod here as well
All very good answers.

We all must remember the time that Catholism arose and under whom. It is out of context with all the Bible has established, to remain unchanged.

'Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.'

Mary is blessed, but she is not an intercessor. The Bible shows us that Jesus intercedes for us, not Mary. If Mary, who was clearly human, had to hear our prayers and griefs and bear that intercession, she is denied her gift of eternal peace.
toggle
December 14, 2006
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< Ephesians 5:14
hey muddog, i agree with you on most of what you are saying. the only thing i have a problem with is your quotation from Ephesians a/b the dead awakening. i think that in the context of the chapter as well as other references to those "asleep" by paul (ref?) it seems that when he talks a/b awakening those who are asleep, he is talking a/b those living (living as far as breathing and funtioning)sinners who are asleep in CHrist.
- mudgod
  December 15, 2006
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  Let me study it and I'll get back to you.
Violet Moodswing
December 16, 2006
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LoL
Actually, I am a vegetarian too.

All denomonations are steeped in the traditions of men. Only God knows the human heart so we humans aren't in much of a possition to judge. I believe deeply in the fact that I am saved by grace and grace alone. Grace is a free gift that I do not deserve, nor does any other human being. I will not point fingers at any other human because I am judged in the same manner that I judge others. We all have dirt under the rug somewhere even if we have it neatly tucked away where we can no longer see it. So best to simply be humble before the Lord and allow him to deal with our hearts.

I have enough stuff to clean up on my side of the street to keep me busy enough not to worry so much about yours

My point was that there is no Catholic vs Christian. It is just another Christian denomination filled with religous leaders who are sometimes filled with the spirit of the Pharisee just like all the other christian religious denominations. Denomination does not provide salvation. Denomination does not prove the heart of a man. In fact, following all the rules does not prove the heart of a man either. It simply proves that he follows the rules.

At best, we all only make feeble attempts to walk as Jesus did. I am not without fault so I don't throw stones.
mudgod
December 23, 2006
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Posted in the wrong place
mudgod
December 23, 2006
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Aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh
mudgod
December 23, 2006
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I have tried many times to post this under the heading of " A Christian is a Christian is a Christian", but it keeps going here.
It is a reply to pnktrky regarding the commandments.
---------------------------------------------------
Most people would like to believe that the law was done away with, but what did Jesus say? (Mat 5:18 Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with---not until the end of all things. – from the Good News Bible). As far as I can tell, everything hasn’t ended yet. Maybe Jesus lied.

Let’s look at what Jesus said about the greatest commandment.
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Jesus clearly says the first great commandment is to love God and the second is to love your neighbor. But lets let Jesus finish the thought.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Oh, these two commandments cover all the “law” and the “Prophets”. We have seen that the law is not done away with (or Jesus is a liar). These are not new commandments but rather, they are the entire law condensed into two. If you look at the original ten commandments you will see that the first four show us how to love God and the last six show us how to love our neighbor.

First notice who spoke “all these words”. I don’t know, do you think He can be trusted?
Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,

1st Commandnent:
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2nd Commandment
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3rd Commandment
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4th Commandment
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5th Commandment
Exo 20:12 Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

6th Commandment
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

7th Commandment
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8th Commandment
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

9th Commandment
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10th Commandment
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

When Jesus was alive there was New Testament. Everything He said and did was based on the Law (the books of Moses – or – the Pentetuch – or – the Torah) and the prophets (all the other Old Testament books). Jesus didn’t do away with the law, He magnified it. He showed how to keep the law spiritually.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
He didn’t say adultery was not a sin any more. He showed how the thought of it leads to the actual commitment of it. This is the standard that Christians have to try to live up to.

So the bottom line is this. The commandments are God’s. They are His basic law of love to Him and our neighbors. They are still in force and will be at least until Jesus returns. They are binding on us if we are to be considered Christians.

And the final word goes to Jesus.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Orual
January 3, 2007
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This is very difficult to explain without going into a long post about church history. Catholic is Christian. The proper division would be Catholic or Protestant, or even Orthodox and Protestant, if you'd like the add the Eastern churches in.

The Pope is the only consistent difference between Catholics and Protestants, but he does not make Catholicism. He is a political head for the church, but by no means always right (or, at least, he isn't considered infallible anymore. Again, church history). Aside from that, it all came down to various religious reformers. Some Protestant churches believe in infant baptism, like the Catholic church, some do not.

In short, the topic is too broad. Catholicism is Christianity; it simply differs in doctrine and scriptural interpretation.
GreyDaze
May 20, 2007
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What makes them so different as to need seperate names?
[Note: Christian in this refers to those who refer to themselves as Christian, and not Catholic. I understand Catholics consider themselves Christians also.]

I am very uneducated when it comes to religion in general, especially when it comes to Christianity and the denominations. I've never understood either what the difference is between someone who is Christian and calls themself such, and someone who is Catholic and calls themself Catholic.
From what I see, there's the Pope. I'm not sure what he's for. But don't Catholics and Christians have the same bible? The differences I see so far are saints and no saints. But..I'm not quite sure what the huge difference is. Why are Catholics stereotypically refered to as "religion nazis", as in Catholic school with the ruler abuse and the constantly telling you you're going to hell?
[I understand that this isn't true. It's the media's view. I want to understand how it got to be presented that way.]
mudgod
May 20, 2007
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Just as all cognac is brandy, but not all brandy is cognac, all catholics are (professing) Christians, but not all (professing) Christians are catholic.
Carpool
July 31, 2008
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THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO TIMOTHY
2 1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men:
2 2 For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.
2 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour
2 4 Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It cracks me up how people say that saints can't intercede or pray for us but then claim that they believe in the communion of saints.
Sganet
January 11
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Pray in JC's name, God will listen, why all the saints and why not? GOD LISTENS, if He can hear what you are thinking, feeling, of course he can hear your cries, why do you pray to a dead person so he would pray for you? Because he gets better reception in heaven??? Don't believe in the lies that you are not good enough just because you were bad or did something bad that God won't listen to you! You are His son, His daughter, you don't need a saint, our God is forgiving, merciful, and loving. He wants to hear YOUR prayer.
abii2
January 11
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Sganet,
i'm replying to the post entitled "2 cent"
it wouldn't let me reply where i was trying to.

...

Almost everything you said was true.
and you definitely know what you're talking about.
I especially like your first point.

There is one thing I'm going to have to disagree with you on. You said that Faith is all that we need and that we are not known by our works.

Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

note the last line especially.
i can give you other passages if you'd like.
I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?

This has been a huge debate for a while and still is.

note these passages::
Mar 10:39 They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.

-and-

Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

thanks, abby. (:
abii2
January 11
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gah, i don't know where my comment went.
i think allpoetry hates me.
Applehead
March 28
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abii2

"Rev 14:13 says this: And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

note the last line especially.
i can give you other passages if you'd like.
I am absolutely not saying that faith isn't absolutely necessary, but what about baptism?"

This nowhere says that we receive salvation by deed but shows that when we are judged for our DEEDS we wil receive rest if God, by His grace and just character says we will be granted it. It is by faith in Jesus being our Lord and Saviour, saving us from sin and death and therefore amitting that we are sinners and repenting, that we receeive salvation. Then comes the question of true repentance, consistancy in this and the fact tha we cannot judge repentance it is not our place. Only God knows our hearts.

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hmm to put it in new-age terms...

Catholics seem like the 'emos' of Christianity =P

8% Voted for by Molzahn, Sganet.

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The Catholics do not keep the commandments of God

The Bible (God's Word) commands a seventh day sabbath, which is easily proveable to be Saturday. From sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. The Catholics keep Sunday not Saturday and even admit that they changed it with no scriptural authority.

The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify.

There are many other "Catholic" references to this on the following site:
http://members.aol.com/KHoeck2/notes.html

And remember; Jesus was a Jew and kept the Saturday (seventh day) sabbath.

Voted for by mudgod.

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Weydon
June 4, 2007
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Was the title really necessary? Obviously every denomination believes THEY'RE the one following the commandments of God and the other ones are wrong, or they wouldn't follow it.

Most Catholics today realize yet couldn't care less that Saturday was originally the Sabbath. Both Saturday and Sunday are currently recognized for Sabbath-fulfillment.
mudgod
June 4, 2007
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The topic is "Christian Vs. Catholic (What’s the REAL difference)", no? I think that not many bother to prove what is right or wrong. Some are in their religion because they were born to it and don't question it. Others like how the preacher talks, or it is close to where they live, or the music makes them feel good, or they let the minister tell them what is right without proving it. But not many care if they are right or not. Most people believe that they are good folk and a righteous God would not punish them. Even if they weren't following what the Bible says. But they are wrong and the Catholics are the wrongest. How do we know we love Jesus?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What did Jesus say about those who reject the commandments?

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

If you are keeping commandments that are not of God, you are worshipping Jesus in vain. Certainly we cannot be considered Christians if we are not following the commandments of God. If the Catholic church worships on any other day than the seventh day (Saturday, reconned as Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown), and there is no scriptural authority to do so, then clearly they are keeping their own tradition and are not Christian. Regardless of what they call themselves. You can rationalize it any way you want, but the Catholic church does not follow the laws of God as set forth in the Bible.
Weydon
June 5, 2007
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Yeah Mud. All Catholics say "Well, yeah, my religion is WRONG--but I like the smell of the church, so...." And they certainly never quote the Bible to prove THEY'RE right.

Jesus also recommended IGNORING the commandments of God in certain scenarios. Such as NOT stoning fornicators to death, and NOT caring when someone ignores the rules of the Sabbath to protect their livelihood.
mudgod
June 5, 2007
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I don't think that many believe their religion is wrong, but I do believe that they don't know if it is or isn't and don't really much care. The comment you have me ascribing to catholics was to all people who are professing christians, not just catholics. I say that the catolics are the wrongest because the lay people just go along with what the church teaches and the church is so far from God it is amazing. I would be interested to see any scripture where Jesus advocates ignoring commandments.
Weydon
June 6, 2007
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You just described what I said about every denomination not knowing "they're wrong". They same the same about you.

"I would be interested to see any scripture where Jesus advocates ignoring commandments."

I just spoke of them.
mudgod
June 6, 2007
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I can prove from the Bible whether my beliefs are correct or not.

"I just spoke of them. "
Chapter? Verse?
Weydon
June 7, 2007
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Right, mud. You can prove it. They quote the Bible when backing up their beliefs in attempts to DISPROVE their beliefs. Have you even spoken to a devout Catholic in your life? They don't think the Bible proves their beliefs wrong but stick with it because they love the stained glass windows and are friendly with the nuns. They also say their Bible quotes prove them right and you wrong.

I'm not wasting my time telling you where some the most well known actions of Jesus in the Bible barring miracles are.
mudgod
June 7, 2007
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The sabbath was made holy by God. He commanded that it be kept forever as a sign between Him and His people. Jesus kept it. It did not "die on the cross." It is from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset. The site I quoted in the first post of this thread contains quotes from prominent catholics, protestants, mormons, baptists, et al. They all agree that there is no command in the Bible to keep Sunday, the first day of the week, holy. They admit that the only Biblically commanded sabbath is the seventh day. And yet, THEY ALL KEEP THE WRONG DAY. If they are real Christians, why are they blatantly, disobediently keeping the wrong day? Because, as Jesus said, they keep their own traditions instead of the commandments of God. And that makes them none of His.
Carpool
July 25, 2008
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mudgod
You need a history lesson on early Christianity - from what you are saying, then you are admitting that the earliest Christians were indeed Catholic, because they worshipped on 'the Lord's day' not the Sabbath(b/c Jesus resurrected on a Sunday - hence the name "Lord's Day" they give it)
IvoryRose
September 15, 2008
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Can you name a single Christian denomination that practices specifically on Saturday or on the Jewish Sabath?

The Sunday worship isn't only Catholic it's Christian. It's worship on the day that Christ rose!
koshkosh77
October 12, 2008
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yes, Seventh-day Adventists.

Sabbath-worshipers of the Christian faith.
Sganet
January 11
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Why does people argue about the smallest technical things. I think God cares more about your relationship with Him than whether you go to church on saturday or sunday or at all! A lot of people go because it is their life routine. A lot of gangsters go to church so they might not die the next time they go blasting. STOP WASTING YOUR LIFE ARGUING! YOU WON'T WIN A SOUL! The bible is HIS words, he wants you to know him, that's why it is written in words so you can understand. They are to help you realize his will for you and hopes for your life, not to use them to support your own will. Whatever you guys comment on, if there is no love first, rather don't say anything. Maybe you won't feel good not saying something to defend your believe or something you feel offended on, but if you can't express your thought in a way to build and to love, rather say nothing.

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What makes them so different as to need seperate names?

[Note: Christian in this refers to those who refer to themselves as Christian, and not Catholic. I understand Catholics consider themselves Christians also.]

I am very uneducated when it comes to religion in general, especially when it comes to Christianity and the denominations. I've never understood either what the difference is between someone who is Christian and calls themself such, and someone who is Catholic and calls themself Catholic.
From what I see, there's the Pope. I'm not sure what he's for. But don't Catholics and Christians have the same bible? The differences I see so far are saints and no saints. But..I'm not quite sure what the huge difference is. Why are Catholics stereotypically refered to as "religion nazis", as in Catholic school with the ruler abuse and the constantly telling you you're going to hell?
[I understand that this isn't true. It's the media's view. I want to understand how it got to be presented that way.]

Voted for by GreyDaze.

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the man in the mirror

First off your question as it is stated is insulting to Catholics.( I realize that you didn’t intend to be such )
Catholics conceder themselves to be Christian too. If I could be so bold to change your question slightly?
What is the difference between fundamentalist catholic and fundamentalist protestant theology?
Yes cherry-blossom808 there are fundamentalist Catholics Ex. opus dei .
To me both have abandoned the sprit of Jesus’ teaching to follow a false idol, human intellect in the form of their various theologies. Both groups would rather argue about the burning question “did Adam have a belly button” than to look at the world around them and ask them selves is their anything I can do to relieve peoples suffering? The choice as you have laid it out to me is some thing akin to the choice between the electric chair and hanging both options should be avoided and in the end you will end up just as dead which ever one you choose. You see cherry-blossom I am gay and having had to share air with these groups for 43 years my opinion has, as you would expect become slightly jaundiced. Both are really good at telling me how and why I’m going to hell. They have one itty-bitty problem they have forgotten what a mirror is used for.

Voted for by bob2314.

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Explain this?

The Catholic church was founded by Jesus (God) and the Christian churches were ALL founded by a man. You don't need a bible to get this info--just check in any encyclopedia. For example, the Anglican church was founded by Henry the VIII because he couldn't get his own way in obtaining a divorce. He never professed to having divine authority conferred on him by God- -he just basically said that he didn't like the rules of the Catholic church so he would form his own where he could get his own way. Now, given my choice of whom to follow, Henry VIII (or others like him) or Jesus (God), my choice is Jesus. I'm not saying that there aren't good people in other Christian religions, I'm just saying that it is only logical and rational for me to follow Jesus (God) and not a man. I don't want to get into a war of words or quotes from the bible because I think you just lose a lot of people in the process. The pertinent words in this situation are in both versiions of the bible--ours and the King James version--'you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church' and if you are to believe the words of Jesus, it's quite clear that He gave the authority of the church to Peter. I do understand that the many translations of the bible have left some wondering how each translators own personal ideas are reflected, but in this case, Matthew seems to be pretty well intact no matter which version you read. I have never found anywhere where Jesus gave authority over His church to anyone except St. Peter--not to Henry VIII or Martin Luther or Sylvia Browne or anybody else. So for me the question isn't why follow the Catholic church but why not, when all the proof is there right in front of your face or in the case of other Christians, right in your own King James bible?

Voted for by allengenises.

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Rat poison is 90% healthy 10% Deadly

The Catholics are doing 90% correct. They follow Jesus and that is great. There are afew problems...10% (maybe more)
1. the first commandment is to have no other gods before Him. Catholics pray to idols of Mary and a few others I am not certain. They pray to others besides God, including the Saints, who have nothing to do with Jesus. They were good followers of the Lord, but can do nothing for you. In revelation an angel appeared to John, and he bowed down to the angel, but the Angel said he should not. So why are they doing it still.
2. The euchrist is believed to really be Jesus Himself. Now if you remember the last supper, when Jesus told them to do " do this in rememberance of me". Thats all. we should take of the cup and eat of the bread remembering Him and all he did for us. The Catholics say that Jesus is there on the alter. Well I believe that Jesus is with us all the time. He did say " and surely I will be with you, even to the end of the age." He is with us, not only when the waffer and wine come out.
3. Indulgenced prayer. Where in the Bible does it say that saying this prayer before a crucifix will enable us to gain an indulgence of 10 years. Find it please and show me. Besides I am not too worried about 10 years because I have eternity to live out and that is long............
4. Praying to Jesus. Does the Bible not say (actually Jesus himself talking) that we should pray to the Father in His name? So why, when I look at a Catholic prayer book, do I see them praying to Jesus. Jesus said we are to pray to the Father in Jesus name. and as I said in my first point that The Father is the only one we pray to. No angels, no saints.
5. Purgatory. Do a search, and you will not find anything such as this in the Bible. when Jesus was on the cross, the one robber said " surely you are the Christ" and what did Jesus say? " Today you will be with me in paradise". Well that doesn't sound like a place where apparently you suffer until they are fit to be admitted to the presence of God. The way they put it makes it sound like Jesus didnt really do a good job on the cross. That we still need a cleansing before going to heaven. God Himself, the Father tore the veil, inviting us into His throne Room. What an amazing blessing, Gods Grace.
6. Confessions. well I do believe that we sin, even when we are saved. So there has to be further forgiveness. But I totally dont agree with going into a little box and tell the Father your sins. You can do this right next to your bed. Remember that the veil has been torn, so we do not need someone else to talk to God for us. This is all part of the new covenant. And I saw that doing confession makes the Priest Holy. God is no respector of man, so how can it make him Holy.
7. Born-again. Jesus said you have to be born-again of spirit and you believe He died for your sins so you might enter heaven. So why is it that Catholics do not actually give their lives to Christ? You have to actually make a decision and make Jesus Lord of your life. You cannot go to Church every Sunday and think you are going to Heaven. You must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord. Angus Buchan once said " Good people don't go to Heaven, if that were the case, the Muslims would go before us, because their good works are far more than ours. No, Bleivers go to Heaven." we are not worthy to recieve His Grace, but He really loves us and He is Mighty to save.

Well that is my opinion. I have lots more points that I would like to share, but these I felt were really the main share of the 10% Deadly Poison.

Voted for by jesusfollower777.

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wamo888
October 12, 2007
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wamo888
Right On Brother Rat.....!!!!
campusminister
February 6, 2008
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1. we dont pray TO them.. we ask them to pray FOR us.. we dont idolize them.. have you ever been to a catholic mass? its all about jesus/God..you obviously have never heard of the nicene creed.. we say it all the time.. read it..
2. we do believe in the eucharist..what better way to have God/Jesus than to have him INSIDE us??
3. i've never heard of the indulgence prayer..no clue what you are talking about
4. pray to jesus? um sweetie.. the holy trinity? the father..the SON..and the holy spirit..
they are all ONE!!..therefore there is nothing wrong with praying to jesus..
5. purgatory=final purification.."some souls are not sufficiently free from sin and its consequences to enter the state of heaven immediately, nor are they so sinful as to be destined for hell either." gives souls a chance to repent if they havent..
6.about confession..the Lord speaks to us through priests..when we confess or repent we want to know what God says to us..he's not gonna pop out everytime you confess by yourself and be like.. alright 2 our fathers.. ya know??
7. okay we dont go to church every sunday because we think we're going to be saved..we go to church every sunday to hear God's word.. we believe that we will be saved through tradition and good works.. not just through tradition.. =]
Carpool
July 25, 2008
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'born again'
is speaking of baptism. the Bible says that when you are baptised(with water) you receive the Holy Spirit. And the Apostles did not just Bapitise adults - they baptised entire households(yeah, that would include children and infants)!
Sganet
January 11
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my 2 cents
1. Why do you need to pray to saints to pray for you? Why not just pray to God? you are his son/daughter, He loves you He already knows your deepest thought before you even speak a word. How keep up a good relationship by having a messenger to do the communication?

2. When you accepted God into your life, hes already living in you. If you sin, pray for forgiveness and help, so that he would keep on living in you. Communion is a time to remind all to self check and ask for forgiveness for new sins or repeating weaknesses, the procedure itself does nothing, and if you don't have a heart of repentance, you would be consuming your own sin and insulting Christ's blood.

3. ???

4. Agreed

5. Hmm... well, let me ask you, which sin is worst than another? is there a level of sin? Is there a difference between a man with 1 sin and a man with a million sins? In the end, because we never know when we would go, there is a chance that we might have an unrealized sin at the time that we die. So in the end, always have a repentful heart and ask for forgiveness when you realize you've sinned, but at the same time, have a good relationship with Him. Because chances are, every one of us will go up with a few sin(because we all have blind spots).

I think that purgatory was made up to make people feel better, so that they don't have to worry about a few sin that they don't want to fix. God is merciful, but don't abuse it. Only God knows whether you go to heaven or hell, there is nothing in between. There is no point making people believe that there is a purgatory also because it just give lazy believers excuse not to deal with their weaknesses.

6. Priest are human, human make mistake. There are priests that molest children and do all kinds of evilness. How do you know? How do you know if your priest is not anti-christ himself that appears to be an angel from heaven?

This is why God wants relationship with you. People don't believe God answers to their prayer because they're afraid that their prayer might fail. Having faith that He will answer you, whether right away, later, yes, no, wait, thru a certain experience, dream, people, and scripture. It doesn't cost you faith to ask a priest to pray for you and tell you an answer that either came from God or just tell you something that agrees with the Bible, but it does take faith to believe that he listens to our prayer, and will answer us when He feels that it is the right timing. Maybe instantly on certain thing, or 10 years for something else. But God ANSWERS. you know its true :] pray to Him, pray in a way that you know that it will hurt you if he doesn't answer you. Never offer up something that will cost you nothing.

7. Salvation = Grace + Faith. Going to church doesn't get you salvation, spreading the gospel doesn't get you salvation, donating to the poor doesn't give you salvation, doing all that are just the fruits from your relationship with God, you should enjoy doing not because so that you might get into heaven, but because God fill you with His love to share, not to keep for interest. Not by works, but by simply believe and have Faith. However, having an extreme solid Faith itself could be a life long goal, don't you agree? Now, think about faith, do you have faith? Think about the last time you had faith in God instead of taking the comfortable easy route. Faith comes from actions correct? ;]
Sganet
January 11
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btw...
I shared my perspective to your comments with intention to encourage from one believer to the other not to compete or start a debate, I don't CARE about the denominations and WHATEVER! we are all God's children and I hope and pray for unity someday. God Bless~
Brittany86
March 20
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I think you are a little confused friend...
Okay so maybe the catholic church has got it wrong from time to time but what religion hasn't? The truth is that faith is what matters and the religion we choose just helps us to grow in faith. I know people who never step foot in church but will certainly go to Heaven because they confess with their hearts and mouths that Jesus is lord and love their neighbor even when wronged...having got that said as a catholic I have to tell you that your "facts" are a little dated and some hold no truth at all. Catholics, just like all other christians are born again, saved, whatever you want to call it because like you we are taught to confess that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and that no one can get to the father accept through him. Just because we don't always call it being "born again" doesn't take away from it's true meaning. We in no way are taught that simply going to church every Sunday will get us into Heaven afterall, even an athiest could do that. Next since catholics do make up the biggest majority of the christian population i would like you to find one who actually believes in purgatory still because being from a heavily populated catholic community, i know not one.
As far as confession goes, we are no longer taught that confessing to a priest will get us into heaven. Instead they are wonderful people we can talk to about Everything we do and guess what? They can't tell a soul. I believe fully that God is the only one who can actually forgive me of my sins but it's nice to know that their are people of God out there that i can go to with my problems without having to worry about the backlash of gossip since unfortunately those things are often unavoidable even in the church community. At the age of twenty-two i have actually only "confessed" to a priest once and the rest has been between me and God.
As far as communion goes...you know that quote you gave from Jesus about, "do this in remembrance of me" well thats the exact quote my priest gives before every communion!!!
And lastly we in know way worship ANYONE but GOD!!! We simply ask Mary and the saints to pray for us just like we would ask any other fellow christian to pray for us (i.e. when someone in your church is sick, dying, or just simply going through a tough time do you not pray for them if they ask you to? Do you not believe in the POWER of prayer??? It's the same with Mary and the saints.) And to act as if Mary was just some woman to Jesus is silly. Just read the Bible. It is very clear that Jesus loved his mother as a matter of fact i think it's safe to say that Jesus would not refer to any female as just any woman because he loves all of us very much. Just think man or woman, who are most people the most protective of? Their mother of course!!! I think it's safe to say we inherrited this tendency from God just like we inherrited the tendency to love our children NO MATTER WHAT from GOD. I hope this clears some things up. I am not lashing out, I'm just a frustrated catholic who is sick of the ignorance of my fellow christians. After all, isn't EVERY christian religion different in some way??? If they were not there wouldn't be so many...if everyone were right accept the catholics than their would be onlt TWO religions that believed in Christ as the Savior. Instead there are thousands!!! So why do the Catholics get all the slack. It sucks that even though we are all Christians we continue to dispute against each other and probably will continue to do so until the day Jesus comes and straightens us all out!!!

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The difference is the Pope

He decides what Catholicism is, not the Bible.

Voted for by endsofbread.

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my posts keep disappearing. .

about you people saying that Catholics shouldn't pray to saints because that makes them intecessors/mediators and there is only one - Jesus: The apostles told the Christains to pray for one another - does it take away from Christ when you pray for a loved one? Does it make you an intercessor? It all goes back to what your definition of 'communion of saints' is.

Voted for by Carpool.

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Differences...

The two biggest differences are this:

1) They (Catholics) believe that Mary is the "theotokos" which means "God-bearer". In this, it is taught that because Mary bore God, she couldn't have been a sinner. So the thought is that Mary was sinless, which is ridiculous and totally un-Biblical.

2) Catholics participate in confession, which is useless because of what Christ did on the cross. He made a way for us to speak directly to the Father.

Voted for by Lowercase Prelude.

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Weydon
July 30, 2008
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I like that your facts are supplemented with an editorial ridicule of another's faith.
Lowercase Prelude
July 30, 2008
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It's not ridicule, it's point out the facts. There's a difference
Carpool
July 31, 2008
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facts?
How is it ridiculous that she was sinless? was Job not 'blameless'? Were John the Baptist's parents not called 'blameless' and 'righteous'? Are the severely mentally retarded guilty of sin? Can they not be blameless? Are infants guilty of personal sin? Can they not be blameless? She is referred to as the ark of the New Convenant and the New Eve, she was blameless and stood righteous before God. How many times in the Bible has an angel ever hailed a mere human? Once, with Mary. How many people in the Bible were were called 'full of grace'? Two, Jesus and Mary. Of course Jesus is full of grace because he is fully divine, but Mary being full of grace even before the conception of Jesus? If Mary was not sinless, wouldn't God have chosen someone else to bear His Son? There are several accounts of blameless people in the Bible, but Jesus' own mother cannot be one of them??

We fly to your patronage, O holy Mother of God. Despise not our prayers in our necessities, but deliver us from all dangers, O glorious and ever-blessed Virgin. -found on an Egyptian Christian papyrus AD 250

The Epistle of St. James: 5 16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

The Holy Gospel according to St. John:
20 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Lowercase Prelude
July 31, 2008
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Being "blameless" and "sinless" are two different things. And the reason it is "ridiculous" is because it's un-Biblical. Romans 3:23 states "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...", keyword there ALL.

Mary would be included in that "ALL"
Carpool
August 1, 2008
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really?
The Oxford Pocket Thesaurus of Current English | Date: 2008
blameless
• adjective
synonyms: innocent, not to blame, guiltless, above reproach/suspicion, in the clear, without fault, virtuous, moral, upright, irreproachable, unimpeachable, unoffending, sinless.

Romans 3 9-12:
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

What about that? Well, that is yet another instance of those who take everything literally except "This IS my body, this IS my blood" reading out of context. First, have 2 month old babies "sinned" Did Jesus sin? Are the extremely mentally retarded responsible for "sin"? What about Luke 1:6 which speaks of St. John the Baptist's parents, the priest Zacharias and Elisabeth, who "were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless"? Either they were also totally obedient to God, as Mary most certainly is, and are, therefore, sinless (i.e., not guilty of personal sin, though guilty of original sin), or the verse means something else. But what? Well, look at Psalm 14, which is the verse Paul is quoting.

Psalm 14
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord. There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous. Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the Lord is his refuge. Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the Lord bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

Paul is contrasting "they" -- those who do no good, who are filthy, who are not righteous, who do no good -- not one -- -- with God's people who ARE righteous.

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Biblical Perspective

Dear brothers and sisters,

Who is man to criticize God, the Almighty? I am not here to discuss the differences between Christianity and Catholicism but to show you what Bible explicitly says:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6 (not saints, angels, etc.)

"And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, keep My commandments." - John 14:13-15 (no other name in this world is given such a power)

“Thou shalt not make thyself any graven image, any form of what is in the heavens above, or what is in the earth beneath, or what is in the waters under the earth.” - Deuteronomy 5:8 (Very clear, isn’t it?)

Who follows the above?

God bless!

Voted for by josejebaraj.

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There is no difference.

There are many forms of Christianity, being Catholic is one form. I'm an Armenian Orthodox Christian. This is a strange question to even ask. The fundamental belief is in Jesus as the Savior.

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right now

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mudgod
June 27, 2007
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Jesus said He would build His CHURCH, not CHURCHES. The church was not to be divided. All of the different groups calling themselves Christian are confusion. God is not the author of confusion. Who is? There is only one true church and catholocism is not it. You can find the right church if you just follow Jesus.
Carpool
July 25, 2008
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so. .
I suppose nobody went to heaven until the Reformation?
Carpool
July 25, 2008
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Christ's Chruch
Jesus built HIS Church on the rock of Peter(petros/cephas - means 'rock'). Jesus established the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. 'and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it' and 'i will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, that whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven'. And Peter has successors, and he appointed Bishops(e.g. St. Ignatious of Antioch) and the Catholic CHurch of Jesus Christ compiled the Bible in the 4th century. And the reformers 1,500 years later decided to make up their own beliefs and chop up the Bible until it fit those beliefs. I agree, God is not the author of confusion, the Christian faith remained unchanged(in the face of all concievable heresy and corruption within its own churches) until a bunch of 'Reformers' decided that they would be their own authority(essentially making themselves thier own 'popes').

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There are 16 choices, 24 votes for CHeRRy-bLoSSoM808's debate

Christian Vs. Catholic (What’s the REAL difference)

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Yes, but

:)

catholic-muslim-christian

Hey cowardly Catholic

Hey cowardly Catholic

The first commandment is not breached when there is prayer to saints

you contradict yourself

Christ's Chruch

.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

Good points.

:)

This is pointless.

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Adding your comment:

after the Reformation

gulp

FYI

Well...

THANK YOU!

WOW!! WOW!! AMAZING!!

blind faith

blind faith

lisasee

Thank You!

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reply

2 cent

The difference is the Pope

mudgod

Mudgod here as well

< Ephesians 5:14

LoL

What makes them so different as to need seperate names?

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wow

Hey cowardly Catholic!

HAHA

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mudgod

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The rock

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wamo888

'born again'

my 2 cents

btw...

I think you are a little confused friend...

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<

Is it Christian?

Applehead. .

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