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While I am a believer in spiritual thingsI think you have a valid point. Some folks seem to hide behind a door waiting for the opportunity to jump out and bash ya with the God stick, as if a being who is omnipotent, omnipresent and all powerful can't take care of his own bashing.20% Voted for by Violet Moodswing, frndofyaweh.
Some folks are well meaning others are just mean. It is pretty much my oppinion that a persons actions speak loudest. Even if a person does see God in all things, blowing wind doesn't really make that belief contagious and quite often it simply reiterates a persons poor oppinion of those with spiritual beliefs.
For instance, one reason people see religion as oppression is because throughout history, the powers that be have used it to keep people under their thumbs and use them to further their own agendas. This simply perpetrates more oppression.
It isn't that I think that people should never mention their belief in God, but there are different levels of discussion for different topics. If I were sitting in a math class learning to do equations, would I expect the teacher to be telling me how God would do the math? Would the students in the class be raising their hands interjecting their oppinion of their concept of God's thoughts on mathematics? Would it be appropriate to scream out you are all going to hell for doing your math that way?
There is a time and a place for all things. If a topic is about chocolate covered marshmallow bunnies with one ear lopped off, then it is obviously not a spiritual discussion and it is a bit rude for someone to turn it into a platform for preaching. -
a short lista short list of thing we should avoid talking about20% Voted for by bob2314, Soifwe Passedwest.
homosexuality
religion
race
god
if we go down this road this site will be a very quiet place.
care to add to the list?Please login or register to comment.Registration is required because of issues with spam. It is fast and free! This author would LOVE to get a comment from you, please join!
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homosexuality is somthing more peoples minds need to be opened to. Race well aslong as your not racest you will not hear from me. Religion, Dont call mine stupid and i wont call yours stupid. and god you preach to me about it you will feel how sharp my tongue can be.
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Oh, bite me.
That's crap, Bob. What else do we have left to talk about? I'm sure everyone I know is tired of me shoving organic soymilk down thier throats and preaching about how nature is so good...Yes, I love my organic teas and foods, but not everyone wants to hear about that...And Pen Pen even said homosexuality is something that we need to be more open to. -
I like you Oral, as I am quite sure people are getting sick of me doing the same thing ^_^
If like this someone has asked about god i don't mind a discussion about it but if it is mentioned in a place where no one has asked for it then "god" should be kept out of the discussion. In my opinion...
Pen-Pen
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God is the basis of Philosophy
I have read bunches on what entails philosophy and philosophers. God is always mentioned as not only a major part of philosophy, but also the biggest and most entegral to solutions within philosophy. God claims to be the wisest and wisdom is the key to being a good philosopher.
God claims: Use my Word to defend your actions, statements and you will always have the correct solution or reply. Obviously, this will bring God into almost every philosophic discussion, since every philosopher wants to say the wisest things first right?
If God and His Word are correct in that, He claims to have the best solution for all things, then it is obviously logical, that God will always appear in every philosophic debate or discussion, as the best option to choose.
So when you enter a website formed around philosophy, you should already know that every religion or faith known to be active in the world, will show up to give their own two cents worth. Especially the one that claims, to have an answer for everything. -
bravo on a well thought comment, my friend.
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bravo on a well thought comment, my friend.
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yeah, we COULD avoid such controversial subjects as God, homosexuality, Rgeligon and race, but what would that leave us with? the usual tripe that's in the newspaper? sports, literature and current events? bor-ing! id rather spark up an argument, get a debate going on, have an exchange, you know, the kind of stuff a PHILOSOPHY site is supposed to be about .
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why?If someone wants to know something not god related DON'T bring up god, it is uncalled for and completely off topicVoted for by Princess Wolf.Please login or register to comment.
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hot topics
People have a right to bring up anything they wish in their discussions. It's there right and privilege as members. If you do not wish to discuss God then when you start a topic just say as a stipulation you wish to leave all religious references out of all responses then. -
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I was only just asking, but thanks for th info. I will remember it for when i post again ^^ -
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no problem
just for the record I agree with you. It's nice to discuss things in general
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your titles are hilarious.
that is all （°Д°） -
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thank you so very much Ham
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oops i aimed that one at energizer bunny lol.
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oks ^^ your forgiven
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OK now your showing off ENERGIZER !!! lol
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ya, someone is having too much fun...
I wonder if it was the users that wanted pictures and not EB begging Kevin for them.... -
Is it off topic? I don't think so. I think God is at the core of everything. I don't care if you believe in him or not, he's still there.
Many discussions here most likely are about moral issues, and God (religious beliefs) are usually found were morals are. Just my take on it
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there is no such thing as god, just small minds (priests) wanting to believe there is some hope out there to hold on to. If you don't believe then god does not exist. one is believing in nothing, are you all happy with that?
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Because
Because everything - everything philosophical at least - is in one way or another connected to Him. He created everything (except evil; he is all good) so it makes sense that HE is everything and everything, everyone, every philosophical journey, is related or connected to Him. -
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In the bible I beleive it is written "I created everyting" or something alone them lines so if god did exist he must have created evil.
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EdgarAllanPoe & Pen-Pen
Oh, both of you are right in your own manner. This goes into something that has been brought up many times before. Evil itself does not exist at all. It is merely a lack of good, just like cold or shadow are a lack of heat or light. This is shown in that evil can not exist in and of itself. It is always the pursuit of something good in the wrong way, to much, or for the wrong reasons. But this still leaves the question, where did original good come from? -
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Why did God create Necro and paedophilia then...
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Ignorance is bliss, eh?
Wow, what a great idea. Let's make philosophy easier and more comfortable to deal with by eliminating the things that bother us. If we just ignore them, they'll go away right? I believe this idea has been tried before during the Spanish Inquisition. It didn't work for them, but hey, you guys might just pull it off.
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I like you lol!
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Hmmm....I would have to say it is because they think that god is everything and in being so, they cannot defferentiate between a matter in which does not nessisarily involve im directly from one that does involve him directly.Voted for by Kazrith.
not only that but the existence of a god is one of the hottest debates right now...Please login or register to comment.Registration is required because of issues with spam. It is fast and free! This author would LOVE to get a comment from you, please join!
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prove...
prove to me god exists and i will listen to everything you have to tell me
WITH OUT asking me to "have faith" or if I "feel the burning of the busem" OR I "must believe"! -
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I really dont care if he exists or not Pen-Pen. if you want to debate that, ask Dwn or Mudgod, endsofbread, or likewhatitis100. its not my area.
I'm agnostic
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i cant even tell you what the 10 commandments are
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from a grateful fool
your right pen-pen no one can prove God exists.
all anyone can do is tell you why we believe.
to believe is in God illogical. it is foolish.
and in the end all anyone can tell you is have faith. because that's is all you need.
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i do not do well in blind faith. I prefer something i can touch see taste and smell. to believe in something the someone MAY think is there is just, for the lack of a better word "foolishness"
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same with me
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I like you lots then Kazrith
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Because....When you talk about physics, you must always bring up that which physics is based around. And that is the mathematical principles and forces we observe. The same is true for philosophy. When talking about it, or reality or just about anything else, it always comes back around to discussing the core of the idea. And that core always involves the being that made it in the first place. And this is God.Voted for by keyman7.Please login or register to comment.
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god didn't make a thing because god does not exist. the earth was here as i am sure i said before.....
long before the first nut even thought of the word. If you have physical proof that god does exist I will eat my own words, but until that day if no Question about god comes up then god should not be mentioned. -
" If you have physical proof that god does exist I will eat my own words"
From this statement, I gather two things. First, you don't believe that any physical evidence exists to show the existence of a god. And second, you don't know of any physical evidence that exists that disproves a god's existence either. If physical evidence is all you will accept as proof of god's life, then physical evidence must be all you will accept as proof of his nonexistence. This is for the sake of consistency. But because there is not any evidence to bode in either direction per se, I fear that you fall into skepticism. That is not a bad thing, but it does mean that you will be able to believe or know anything in truth. You see, perhaps god does not exist, perhaps god does. Or perhaps an evil genious exists that is continually decieving you for his or her own pleasure, or perhaps they don't. Or even worse yet, perhaps god does not exist, or maybe god just created everything this very moment as it is right now and founded you with the collection of memories you now have as well as a belief that you've been existing all along. The argument of god's existence is not a religious thing by any means. It is an attempt to discover something we've been wanting for millenia. Truth. Not facts, for they require interpretation. Nor religion, for it is an interpretation itself. We want truth. In this, the argument of god is fundamental. Otherwise, we will never be able to truly know anything at all. -
well said keyman
Princess wolf, when you say "god doesn't exist" you sound like someone that is convinced of that. The "lack" of physical evidence that he does not exist or I would even argue the lack of ability to observe that evidence doesn't necessarily negate his existance. Anotherwords, just because you can't see him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. It doesn't mean he DOES, but it doesn't mean he DOESN'T. Atheism in my opinion is more ignorant than even the most fundamentalist conservative groups.
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thats easybecause alot of christians on the site are so insecure in there faith that they need to bring god into every conversation to remind themselves that "this is what i have been told my entire life, so it must be true"...Voted for by Crazyhead.
and the cynical a-hole (such as myself) cant help but make stupid side comments about how stupid we percieve christians to be...
and most of all...
it's fun...
god is the ultimate debate because he/she/it/they cannot be proven nor disproven, especially since, in theory, a being that exists based on beliefs will cease to exist if it is proven to exist...Please login or register to comment.Registration is required because of issues with spam. It is fast and free! This author would LOVE to get a comment from you, please join!
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Hi
Do you believe in "god" or are you one of the smart people who believe in oneself? -
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i'll believe in god when god appears before me and says "BOO!"
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lol,ditto with Crazy.
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....I've wondered this same question every since I stumbled onto this site. How can they call themselves philosophers when all of their "ideas" are directly from a so claimed holy book of some sort. Repeating past teachings is not philosophy.WE'RE HERE TO THINK PEOPLE,NOT TO PREACH.Voted for by Paradoxx.Please login or register to comment.
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Religious pursuit is an important aspect of philosophy, and being part of a religion does not mean your belief structure is incapable of being intelligent and conductive the the philosophical discussion.
Open minds make a better philosopher in most cases, but religions have their own philosophical codes with some sort of reasoning behind them. Pretty much every major religion I've seen has something interesting and intelligent to take from it and apply to life in various ways.
Condescendingly shoving atheism down religious people's throats isn't much different them shoving their preachings down yours. -
lol,touche' Weydon. That last line reminded me of a friends quote" I'll accept the possibility of your god when you start accepting that of others."It just annoys me that everything here is God this or God that.I joined this site to see what people think in their own minds,not in their faiths.
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God is the basis of PhilosophyIf God and His Word are correct in that, He claims to have the best solution for all things, then it is obviously logical, that God will always appear in every philosophic debate or discussion, as the best option to choose.Voted for by frndofyaweh.
So when you enter a website formed around philosophy, you should already know that every religion or faith known to be active in the world, will show up to give their own two cents worth. Especially the one that claims, to have an answer for everything man needs to know. Emphasis on NEEDS to know.Please login or register to comment.Registration is required because of issues with spam. It is fast and free! This author would LOVE to get a comment from you, please join!
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except that they seem to have 95 cents on this site,and none of its common.
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They have always had that 95, since Plato and Aristotle and the like. Everything you read in philosophic history is also covered in depth by The Word Of God. This means that it has potential to show up in all aspects of philosophy, science, formulas, events, day to day life itself.
Fareinheit 451 by Ray Bradbury: The main character Montag the fireman, had a secret that he knew would be, explosive news to the human race as he knew it.
Yet, the majority saw him as a criminal and he felt alone and desperate to share something he knew could make the world better than ever. He had to run and search for others like him or convince someone he loved that he was right and the government was wrong.
Christians feel this strong about their faith, just like Montag the fireman who burned books for an oppressive government, that had outlawed reading or possessing them.
They know in their hearts that they hold the secret to eternal life and utter bliss. Inner peace for all of your days like nothing you have felt before.
So,....they are desperate to share this with everyone, because it is FREE. The gift of eternal life has no strings attached, no conditions envolved.
Another Example:
If you found the fountain of youth and knew it would supply the entire world with youth forever, wouldn't you spread the word like crazy and wouldn't everyone be like, yeah right that is too good to be true...?
Actually, if you study the Bible in depth, even from a skeptical viewpoint, like I did at first, you begin to see that it all fits everything perfectly and is quite logical and very well established in scientific data.
Aside from the main point though, because it's the relationship of your spiritual self with another spirit, the Holy Spirit that is. Once you feel Him inside of you, there is no turning back and there is no way to describe it to you or prove it to anyone else. That's what is so frustrating about being a Christian. We actually know that God makes wild things happen for us. Life is not perfect, such as it is, but when you go through it with God guiding you through it, amazing things happen constantly, sometimes many times a day.
I have seen Christians burst out in a fit of giggles for no reason, simply becuase they absolutely know,....the roof could fall on them and kill them and it would all still be alright.....God is with them, so whatever happens is their actual destiny You know, The destiny God says we all were born with, to begin with. -
Fahrenheit 451 was about the freedom to spread and receive ideas openly. Most vehement Christians try to FORCE their ideas and suppress others. Simply being tolerant and loving would be a wonderful way to spread your faith. You can even talk about the specifics if you want. I too feel like I have felt the Holy Spirit or God's Presence or whatever someone wants to call it, and perfectly relaxed and comforted by it. I tell others too. But they are set in their ways, and they will only receive it when ready--and they can receive it in different ways. Maybe they won't directly allow themselves to receive it at all, but this doesn't make them lousy people. Some of the greatest, most inspirational people I know are atheists, agnostics, or of different faiths.
The fountain of youth would be provable with considerable ease. The Bible can be proven to be contradictory and mistranslated and interpreted in dozens of different ways, often within the same sects, even easier. There's wonderful stuff to take from it, just like there is in many religions and philosophies. There's nothing in it that makes me say "Well, it doesn't feel right to denounce homosexual relations, and there's no reason to do it. It doesn't feel right to tell people of other faiths that they will never reach the paradise I will because we were born in different families, and there's no reason to either....BUT this book here says so (according to SOME Christians SOMEtimes), and the book also says that this book is always right...so, sorry suckas!" -
Ummm...
Actually There has never been any established facts on mis-translations in The Bible. thus, the ongoing controversy about it. I can no more prove, it has not been mis-translated, than anyone can prove it has.
However, the Dead sea scrolls that have been translated and released to the public, have very much proven that the entire book of Isaiah is spot on correct. Even in the New KJV, it is word for word correctly translated.
Isaiah is a prophetic book and predicted Jesus' coming, death and resurrection. Isaiah also states that the Jews would be oppressed, wandering nation and persecuted, for killing Jesus for 2000 years after. This has been the case for the Hebrew nation too. Hebrews were scattered to all corners of the Earth and those of Jewish faith and nationality are still prejudiced against even today and oppressed and blaimed for political turmoil.
Not saying that Jews are or are not. Just stating that Isaiah got everything right and it is still rightly translated even now.
Isaiah: They did find one thing wrong in Isaiah though; there was a comma in the wrong place in one verse.
2000 years,... several language changes and re-translations and Isaiah, one of the largest books in the Bible is somehow impossibly correct.
This is like cool stuff to me. Pretty amazing actually and yes, I get a bit excited and try to force it down peeps throats at times. Sorry. I don't mean to be pushy and neither do other Christians. We actually do not realize how pushy we get.
My Bible actually says what you just said above.
Our actions speak for us. Our best witness as to Gods love, is in our daily actions, not our words.
Witness of God, is in the living of it, not the preaching of it.
They don't call me preacher for nothing though. hehee. I have wanted to teach or preach, since I was 2yrs. and I have been ever since.
On 451: Yes, you are correct on the premise and message in the Bradbury book. But I look at it from how Montag had to feel. He must have felt alone. He had to be desperate to tell, but who could he trust?
Imagine if you will, a whole lifetime of not being able to imagine or dream or read something that gave your life revelation or new meaning? Then all of the sudden you are over-whelmed with many new experiences and a whole new way to recieve emotional stimulation.
If I were Montag, I would die trying to get the word out. It would be worth the sacrifice for all, because he found something he knew he could not just forget. There was nothing left for him, but to choose to dis-obey.
After Jesus' ressurection, Christian movement grew quite rapidly and the Jews and Romans both, sought them out and crucified them. Thousands of them, yet they knew what they had was so real, it was worth the risk of a slow sufficating death.
Christians used to hide, just like Montag and the friends he eventually found in the end. -
There are various versions of the King James Bible, American Standard Bible, the Quaker Bible, etc--as well as various ones that use "dynamic equivalence" (summing up what we the translators figure the direct message was) and things such as Thomson's Translation of the Old Testament which is a rare direct translation of one of the oldest versions of it. The overall idea tends to be somewhat the same in most, but there is different wording and contexts. Not to mention one of the only existing points of translating some of the New Testament to Anglo-Saxon/Old English is by Bede--famous for also citing how often God would involve Himself in our lives directly, by freeing prisoners anytime someone prayed for them and converting pagan tribes by giving them physical riches their false gods never gave.
More importantly than translation discrepancies is INTERPRETATION discrepancies. They may more or less say the same thing with different words, but Quakers and Lutherans and Catholics and Greek Orthodox are not the same thing, in spite of following the "same" text. One of my Priests told my Hindu friend that people of other faiths go to hell in 3rd grade. In 5th grade another said the obsolete idea of limbo. In 6th purgatory. In 7th it didn't matter. This is still a matter of debate among Catholics today. Homosexuality is accepted by some people of most every denomination, and denounced by others within the same. The KKK. All believing in the same text.
Only portions of The Dead Sea scrolls have been found, and only portions of that which was recovered were in a state able to be translated. Much of it has been released to the public, but others still haven't been released from Jordan due to their "sensitive nature". Whatever that means.
"On 451..."
We're not very different people when it comes down to it, as we already sort of know. Basically it comes down to what we see as acceptable to stand behind. Even if there was only one, single interpretation of the Bible it wouldn't make me think "It must be right!". There are things that don't make sense to me. Homosexuality so fervently denounced by some, for instance. The stance on accepting Christianity being the only entrance to Heaven--and all the people I love from different faiths, and all the good people I don't even know are doomed because of not accepting it--is an uncomfortable concept to me. I refuse to accept this, even if it was a smack literal quote from the Bible people cited. Like you and Montag, this stance used to frighten me--still does a little. I remember when I first openly made the declaration, I actually was so scared I had trouble sleeping that night. I could have doomed myself by siding with these people, but that's not all that fair of an idea anyway.
I don't know which text is right. I lean towards the ideas of God and Christ (which I figure LARGELY has to do with being raised under it, which also frightened me to admit once), as well as accept certain ideas from other faiths and philosophies. The only thing I can be fairly sure of, is that if there is a Supreme Being, He likely has reasons behind things. I don't THINK He made up rules when bored one day, and before that rules didn't exist. I don't think rape was once morally held within the same regard as drinking a soda--merely an action of no consequence. I think morality exists within reason. I think His mercy and choices would likely stem from an immense understanding of reason. I think it's good to strive to better understand reason because of this. I don't think it's very reasonable, from my standpoint, to denounce gays and the ultimate fate of other religions--especially when 90% of the evidence for the fact is the same Book anyways.
Maybe I am doomed now, but maybe I would have been doomed abandoning the people I believe to be good and harmless in order to save myself. All I can do is what I think is right, and, as they say, "Let God judge the rest." -
Actually....
I do agree with you. I love people from all walks and know quite a few gay men and women.
I am also a resolute type person. I just do not see woman, men, colors, etc. I see souls that are the same as I. I know,...no one seems to believe me when I say, "What sexy girl? I only saw an attractive person."
I know that scarey feeling as well and as much as I rant about Things I am mosty ignorant about, I can still accept anyone for other reasons or none really.
The only thing that should sway my likes for all humanity, would be morality. This again boils right back down to personal perspective.
I can accept a Hindu friend for who they are inside and out, but what if I lived during the Mayan age? I couldn't accept human sacrifice, by a friend and then still call them, a friend.
Ho-hum, yes I agree God will make the final judgement and then maybe we will all know the truth about all things.
I believe there is a VERY important reason for the Bible to call homosexuality an abomination, rather than a sin. Because they are made special for a spiritual purpose and have lost sight of their special gift. A gift to actually empathize with both sexes. THis is why so many gay men are drawn into the priesthood. Or at least, I like to believe that is it, rather than thinking they do it, just to find young boys to molest. There intentions are good and from the heart, but they are easily tempted just like the rest of us. -
"I know,...no one seems to believe me when I say, "What sexy girl? I only saw an attractive person.""
You're right
"I can accept a Hindu friend for who they are inside and out, but what if I lived during the Mayan age? I couldn't accept human sacrifice, by a friend and then still call them, a friend."
My respect for religions goes as far as taking a mild interest in their perspective and allowing them to do their own thing as long as it causes no harm. This basically goes for my OWN religion as well. What if I lived in sometime around TODAY's age and Christians were advocating slavery, lynching blacks, beating gays, wrecking stores owned by Middle Easterns, or telling those from other faiths they were going to hell and there's simply nothing they can do about it.
"Because they are made special for a spiritual purpose and have lost sight of their special gift. A gift to actually empathize with both sexes."
Their gift to empathize with both sexes is mostly societally, though I as well believe there is most often biological influences in homosexuality--and that there are biologically influenced psychological differences in the genders.
However, that's as far as a "GIFT" they receive from Christians. A gift like you being attracted to women, but knowing you will never be allowed to be with one EVER. Never marry one. To fall in love with you wife, but never be able to touch her. To "worship her through sex"--or to even hold hands with her. Kiss her on the forehead, go to the movies, live together and grow old together. Because you've been given a gift of empathy. You know what it's like to have male genitals, but prefer shopping over smashing beer cans on your head and painting you face for sporting events.
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Princess Wolf
December 21, 2006
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Thank you
Oh thank you thank you thank you!Princess Wolf
May 2, 2007
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Princess Wolf
May 2, 2007
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