How can a Loving God allow suffering?

This is only for people who don't believe in God because of all the pain and suffering in the world, or don't believe in him because he would send people to hell for eternity.

How can a loving God allow pain and suffering?
How can a Loving God allow people to burn in Hell for eternity?

God does not allow suffering

We do.
23% Voted for by akgirl-01, pnktrky, frndofyaweh, mudgod, pwincessovfantasy. (9 total)
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- Applehead
  April 6, 2007
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  I would like to agree but how do you explain painful deadly illness or disease or miscarriage?
- Doom Pickels
  April 6, 2007
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  God wants to stop it, but it's us who are causing it. Because every time we sin, we cause a little more pain this world.
  
  God allows it, or else it couldn't happen. But it's our faults why it's happening in the first place. If that's what you are trying to imply, then I have to agree with you.
- Doom Pickels
  April 8, 2007
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  Sorry, the reply system made this post go all the way up here
- frndofyaweh
  April 10, 2007
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  You guys caught me agian
  I should say God does not cause the suffering. It is us who allow it. Our choices have consequence and sometimes that is indirect and not easy to match the original action with its' proper consequence.
  
  Pain is still a part of the original curses from 6,000 years ago. Especially when you mention mis-carriage of a child.
  
  Some will say, what about the good person, who never did anything wrong, but suddenly develops cancer and later dies from it.
  
  The Bible tells us, "It rains on the just and the unjust." Every thing good or bad has a reason behind it. sometimes those reasons are not apparent to onlookers.
  
  Then we have the spiritual gift of extraordinary faith. Job had this gift and although he was a good person he suffered unjust pain and sorrow. The reason was, his example and how he handled it. His suffering and yet patience with God became an example of what powerful faith he had in God. After Job suffered the loss of his livestock, his family and his health, but hung in there anyways, God rewarded Job with double that amount back, for the rest of his days.
  
  If I am a rightious person and someone shoots me in the back. I am then paralyzed for life. Where is the justice in this? If I am faithful to God, The justice will come in ten fold. Not always for others to witness, but for my personal welfare and a reward for being faithful.
- pnktrky
  April 27, 2007
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  God above all else gave us free will. so he cant love us too much or it will intervene with free will. if we know 100% that God does exist than free will is dead. so he must make sure that the question of whether he exists be unanswerable. by the way we have allowed them to happen due to the 100,000's of chemicals that we have been dumping on earth. isnt that nice of us. talking about diseases and misscarrage.
- Makessenseright
  May 2, 2007
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  A very simple answer, but when you boil it down, the right one.
- Door on the Left
  May 6, 2007
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  Yeah...
  That's really not what we're talking about, here, buddy. This little subtopic is just me trying to guess the nature of the response that lostidentity has in mind which might explain an omnipotent deity presenting a life without pain which would somehow end up being the life we now experience, with pain. Those are what my "valid objections" are. In response to your first statement: God may have made humans with a free will and without suffering, but I've never been consciously aware of the ability to freely will the entirety of my past, present, and future to change so that there is no, never was, and never will be suffering. In regard to your second statement, the use of punishment as a tool to change others negates free will, even though that would make him just and righteous if He PERSONALLY told each and every person exactly what to and what not to do (not including the Bible, as much of that is obviously out of date, i.e. stoning people, etc.) I can almost see a version of your scenario playing out, if each being were actually a deity subconsciously playing the roles of everybody else in their own isolative universes, except if one such deity willed interaction with another with the ability to harm the other, then free will would again be negated because two wills come in to direct conflict, although that could be countered with the knowledge that entering the plane of interaction could result in pain or pleasure, although this, again, would negate free will, if the original person wouldn't have wanted to be able to be hurt on such a plane. I can not see the Christian God as anything but an a-hole, as you put it, because there are people that do exist that haven't heard of Christ, and there are people that existed before Christ, and there were people that existed before Judaism (as Christ was 'King of the Jews'), therefore, by default, these people would go to hell, if what you say is true, unless, of course, you take in to account every person's personal conscience, God-given, which could counteract such a default, were that person to follow and be in agreement with their conscience, as suggested in Romans, chapter 14, verse 14. "14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
  This, then, opens the door for as many interpretations of God and the universe and morality as there are people, and so long as each is satisfied with themselves, with the conscience that God has provided them, then they are saved, as per the Bible, as per Christianity, even if they are aetheists. In this one verse, the Bible negates itself in it's endless preaching of rights and wrongs and just says, 'Do your best according to yourself'. I think that Christianity started off as a good idea, in following the teaches of the Christ, and only the teachings of the Christ, but in basing faith on the compiled works of many historical scholars, sort of screwed it up for themselves to be taken seriously except in that threating, 'Join us or die!', or 'Join us or go to hell!' mentality, once again, negated by the single verse quoted. I don't think a being as infinite in dimension as an omnipotent 'God' could be represented by anything entirely in a lower dimension, even with a book and a few buildings where people pray and sing loudly to convince themselves and others of their own faith and morality at set intervals on the calendar. God is infinite. In my own eyes, for me, just doing the best I can for myself and setting a decent example of tolerance and unity is enough for God (which I actually believe, if he were so compassionate, would never damn anyone to a concept of Hell, I think men made that up, just like the concepts of right and wrong that are screamed about today), and according to the Bible, through the escape clause previously quoted, I'm perfect just the way I am. Anyway, back to our previous conservation.
- mudgod
  May 10, 2007
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  That's right. God has already proven His love for us. The question is, is how do we prove that we love Him?
- Devils daughter
  May 19, 2007
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  i do not believe that we allow suffering for instance: say you lost a loved one the suffering that follows isnt in our control so we dont get that choice. point is, is that we dont decide whether or not we suffer because of something.
- - pnktrky
    January 25
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    death is easy life is hard... we as a species seem to have a fear of death and sorrow to those that are gone but im not sure whether that is what should happen. for the person who no longer here would most likely want you to be happy so being being sad because of their death you are dishonoring their memory... or something like that.
- C-a-s-m-e-r-o-k-u
  May 31, 2007
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  murder, torture.. im pretty sure people do that but ya the question is how does god let all this be and even him self he causes more pain and suffering than everyone,, i just say here's another flaw in the god theory
- - pnktrky
    January 25
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    when has God done anything to any human being that can be proven whether that is for the better or for the worst... maybe the idea of God but that is human made too.
- Ce9a4fbd3
  July 28, 2007
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  Paradox of life
  In my belief system, God gave us free will--man makes a mockery of that freedom. One of the many paradoxes of life.
  
  Without loss, how could we experience love? Without sadness, joy? You get the picture.
  
  Seems like no matter how hard I tried to "buy" happiness, it always alluded me. Not until I could find peace with myself and my life did I find happiness and joy.
  
  Sadly, I'm not at peace with myself right now...life's circumstances make that difficult for me to attain, yet I know what I need to do: I need to change my attitude and perspective on those circumstances. Sometimes change is hard.
- matronmedusa
  October 10, 2007
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  God doesn't give a rat's butt what we do here. We are all extensions of him, and a way for him to express himself physically. We are all individual aspects of the one initial creator; so....does God sin? There is no such thing as sin; only experience. There is no Hell, other than that which you create for yourself. The soul is not physical, so why should it fear fire and brimstone? Suffering is just another emotion, which is a physical reaction of the chemicals realeased in the brain; thus causing us to "feel" a certain way. The only one in control of how you percieve something is you. No one makes you mad, you allow yourself to be angered. Just the same as no one causes suffering, you allow yourself to be emotionally hurt. Good and Evil are not 2 different things fighting amongst each other. Everything derives from God, which is the beginning and the end, so what is evil but just another face of God?
- Cry For Me XxBabyxX
  December 20, 2007
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  Suffering...
  God doesn't wish for any of His children to suffer. He knows our actions before we do, and he allows them, because He knows the outcomes. I think he allows suffering to continue because without suffering, there would be no compassion.
- Doom Pickels
  January 20
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  I wouldn't have sex with someone I didn't love.
  
  Plus, the reason why masturbation causes those things is because it is in fact sinful. Stress can be relieved in a much greater quantity with the bible than what masturbation could ever do. Masturbation helps prevent prostate cancer indeed. But that doesn't mean we still should do it. Sex has just the same benefits of masturbation itself.
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317189,00.html
  
  The reason why masturbation lowers the risk for prostate cancer is probably the rush or testosterone it creates. There are other ways of raising testosterone then beating off. There's natural herbs and junk (like garlic and broccoli) (genesis 1:29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food."). Working out. Women produce the same hormones during pregnancy when they are simply in love. So men might be able to produce surplus of testosterone when they are in love.
  
  The thing is, are you going to get the benefits of masturbation by masturbating, or by waiting till marriage, and using the herbs God gave us now? Now, noone is perfect, and everyone will stumble.
  
  Now the thing about masturbation that makes it sinful is that it leads to greater sin. All sin snowballs if you don't let God take care of it. Masturbation (along with porn) has been definitely linked with premature puberty. Kids are able to have children at a younger and younger age. This may be a cause of wisdom teeth problems. People in the past definitely couldn't take care of incoming wisdom teeth. Dr. Prince (A health nut who traveled the world) found that people like in africa had "primitive" diets. And they had little to no signs of cancer at all. And they have wonderful teeth. These people can't afford wisdom teeth removed, but they have these wonderful teeth, and enough room for them. This is because they have a "primitive" diet. They don't eat refined sugars, or mass produced foods, they can't afford them. And they also are most likely not to masturbate. They work a lot just to have the money to survive. And the houses are so small, I doubt anyone is masturbating in there. Plus puberty has been documented to take longer to happen in rural areas over those that live in the cities. So The combination of evidences support that they didn't masturbate, they are healthy because of a healthy diet and sex over masturbation. I was completely shocked when I went to Abaco last summer (Bahama island) The children had the most spectacular teeth I have ever seen. And there was no possible way int he entire world that they could receive that from a dentist. They were also pretty poor, and probably couldn't afford toothpaste.
  
  So my point it, masturbation=bad (unless you think of your wife, then It's a grey area). Health benefits of masturbation can come from somewhere else.
- Doom Pickels
  January 20
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  You make this wondrous universe. The people you made in your image disobey you. You as a holy being cannot be with sin, but the ones you love indulge in it. They hate you, they disobey you on purpose, they suffer from their own sin, you have to punish their unholiness. You are forced to because it is holy, to punish them for their sins so that they turn from it. Many people don't turn from it. You send a son so that you make have reunion with your creation. Both he and you put the weight of the world on your shoulders, you get thorns punctured into your head, nails driven into your wrists (or palms if Jesus was hung by a pole instead of a cross) You get whipped with bone shards and metal balls. you are left dehydrated on a cross naked. People forsake what you have done. They continue to live in sin which makes you grieve. They do all they can to disprove you.
  
  It seems like to me that WE don't know what suffering is.
- Kazrith
  January 20
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  lol, doom, i do always enjoy reading your posts.
  
  i'm not seeing the link between masturbation and wisdom teeth, but somehow you have made it possible...
- raseyusmy
  February 1
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  No, to a certain extent you are right. We don't have free will as you know it. We have the freedom to choose whether we will subject our will to the will of God or not (as Christ did, and hence the Father (or Creator God) would have done if He had the possibility).
  
  All other things that I might mention (and I have some ideas) would be reading into God more than I can perceive, because no matter how hard I try, I come to cul-de-sac's, but alas, I'm only the created, not the creator.
  
  What then makes me believe in God. Christ manifestation of God the father for one. The beauty and vastness of the creation. Even the complexity of science and mathematics that come together so well. Sometimes the capability of people to love and hate. I've often thought that an animal (for instance a Lion, or Elephant) has distinct character, but people are so versatile that different people have characters that remind one of different animals. For example, a Lion would not remind me of an elephant, but some people remind me of lions, and other of elephants etc. This does (as the bible reveals) make me think that God made people more significant. Other things that make me think of the Father God nowadays is being/and becoming a father. I cannot speak for mothers, but I'm sure they can also identify with Gods character (humility and service and love of children) in some way. How much is a parent willing to sacrifice for their children? Conversely, while child, how much are children willing to sacrifice?
  
  I must admit I struggle to believe that God knows the outcome of everything up to micro level. I do believe that he is all knowing, almighty and everlasting, and that he does not change, but I also believe that he chooses to let you choose, and from this it implies that he does not know the outcome of your choice, but he knows the consequences if you choose wrong (and warns you about it). I also believe that what makes God tick, so to speak - what gives him meaning, is amongst other things the choice for Him. Not choosing my will be done, but Thou will.
  
  It's like this: I am created in the image of God, and have some of his characteristics. In me he put the longing to become a father, as he is my father and creator. This longing I have despite the knowledge of the possibility that my child might disappoint me despite my best efforts.
  
  With regards to why Christ had to die. I think I agree with Doom Pickels on that. This is because of the "Justness" of God, even towards Satan/Devil whom he condemned.
  
  God had to know the possibility. He knew the consequences, and the reward is so much greater. Besides, he does give you the freedom of choice, and he warns you of the consequences if you [choose] to choose otherwise. Why would you shun his gift?
- raseyusmy
  February 1
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  No, to a certain extent you are right. We don't have free will as you know it. We have the freedom to choose whether we will subject our will to the will of God or not (as Christ did, and hence the Father (or Creator God) would have done if He had the possibility).
  
  All other things that I might mention (and I have some ideas) would be reading into God more than I can perceive, because no matter how hard I try, I come to cul-de-sac's, but alas, I'm only the created, not the creator.
  
  What then makes me believe in God. Christ manifestation of God the father for one. The beauty and vastness of the creation. Even the complexity of science and mathematics that come together so well. Sometimes the capability of people to love and hate. I've often thought that an animal (for instance a Lion, or Elephant) has distinct character, but people are so versatile that different people have characters that remind one of different animals. For example, a Lion would not remind me of an elephant, but some people remind me of lions, and other of elephants etc. This does (as the bible reveals) make me think that God made people more significant. Other things that make me think of the Father God nowadays is being/and becoming a father. I cannot speak for mothers, but I'm sure they can also identify with Gods character (humility and service and love of children) in some way. How much is a parent willing to sacrifice for their children? Conversely, while child, how much are children willing to sacrifice?
  
  I must admit I struggle to believe that God knows the outcome of everything up to micro level. I do believe that he is all knowing, almighty and everlasting, and that he does not change, but I also believe that he chooses to let you choose, and from this it implies that he does not know the outcome of your choice, but he knows the consequences if you choose wrong (and warns you about it). I also believe that what makes God tick, so to speak - what gives him meaning, is amongst other things the choice for Him. Not choosing my will be done, but Thou will.
  
  It's like this: I am created in the image of God, and have some of his characteristics. In me he put the longing to become a father, as he is my father and creator. This longing I have despite the knowledge of the possibility that my child might disappoint me despite my best efforts.
  
  With regards to why Christ had to die. I think I agree with Doom Pickels on that. This is because of the "Justness" of God, even towards Satan/Devil whom he condemned.
  
  God had to know the possibility. He knew the consequences, and the reward is so much greater. Besides, he does give you the freedom of choice, and he warns you of the consequences if you [choose] to choose otherwise. Why would you shun his gift?
- raseyusmy
  February 1
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  No, to a certain extent you are right. We don't have free will as you know it. We have the freedom to choose whether we will subject our will to the will of God or not (as Christ did, and hence the Father (or Creator God) would have done if He had the possibility).
  
  All other things that I might mention (and I have some ideas) would be reading into God more than I can perceive, because no matter how hard I try, I come to cul-de-sac's, but alas, I'm only the created, not the creator.
  
  What then makes me believe in God. Christ manifestation of God the father for one. The beauty and vastness of the creation. Even the complexity of science and mathematics that come together so well. Sometimes the capability of people to love and hate. I've often thought that an animal (for instance a Lion, or Elephant) has distinct character, but people are so versatile that different people have characters that remind one of different animals. For example, a Lion would not remind me of an elephant, but some people remind me of lions, and other of elephants etc. This does (as the bible reveals) make me think that God made people more significant. Other things that make me think of the Father God nowadays is being/and becoming a father. I cannot speak for mothers, but I'm sure they can also identify with Gods character (humility and service and love of children) in some way. How much is a parent willing to sacrifice for their children? Conversely, while child, how much are children willing to sacrifice?
  
  I must admit I struggle to believe that God knows the outcome of everything up to micro level. I do believe that he is all knowing, almighty and everlasting, and that he does not change, but I also believe that he chooses to let you choose, and from this it implies that he does not know the outcome of your choice, but he knows the consequences if you choose wrong (and warns you about it). I also believe that what makes God tick, so to speak - what gives him meaning, is amongst other things the choice for Him. Not choosing my will be done, but Thou will.
  
  It's like this: I am created in the image of God, and have some of his characteristics. In me he put the longing to become a father, as he is my father and creator. This longing I have despite the knowledge of the possibility that my child might disappoint me despite my best efforts.
  
  With regards to why Christ had to die. I think I agree with Doom Pickels on that. This is because of the "Justness" of God, even towards Satan/Devil whom he condemned.
  
  God had to know the possibility. He knew the consequences, and the reward is so much greater. Besides, he does give you the freedom of choice, and he warns you of the consequences if you [choose] to choose otherwise. Why would you shun his gift?
- raseyusmy
  February 1
  Edit | Reply
  
  No, to a certain extent you are right. We don't have free will as you know it. We have the freedom to choose whether we will subject our will to the will of God or not (as Christ did, and hence the Father (or Creator God) would have done if He had the possibility).
  
  All other things that I might mention (and I have some ideas) would be reading into God more than I can perceive, because no matter how hard I try, I come to cul-de-sac's, but alas, I'm only the created, not the creator.
  
  What then makes me believe in God. Christ manifestation of God the father for one. The beauty and vastness of the creation. Even the complexity of science and mathematics that come together so well. Sometimes the capability of people to love and hate. I've often thought that an animal (for instance a Lion, or Elephant) has distinct character, but people are so versatile that different people have characters that remind one of different animals. For example, a Lion would not remind me of an elephant, but some people remind me of lions, and other of elephants etc. This does (as the bible reveals) make me think that God made people more significant. Other things that make me think of the Father God nowadays is being/and becoming a father. I cannot speak for mothers, but I'm sure they can also identify with Gods character (humility and service and love of children) in some way. How much is a parent willing to sacrifice for their children? Conversely, while child, how much are children willing to sacrifice?
  
  I must admit I struggle to believe that God knows the outcome of everything up to micro level. I do believe that he is all knowing, almighty and everlasting, and that he does not change, but I also believe that he chooses to let you choose, and from this it implies that he does not know the outcome of your choice, but he knows the consequences if you choose wrong (and warns you about it). I also believe that what makes God tick, so to speak - what gives him meaning, is amongst other things the choice for Him. Not choosing my will be done, but Thou will.
  
  It's like this: I am created in the image of God, and have some of his characteristics. In me he put the longing to become a father, as he is my father and creator. This longing I have despite the knowledge of the possibility that my child might disappoint me despite my best efforts.
  
  With regards to why Christ had to die. I think I agree with Doom Pickels on that. This is because of the "Justness" of God, even towards Satan/Devil whom he condemned.
  
  God had to know the possibility. He knew the consequences, and the reward is so much greater. Besides, he does give you the freedom of choice, and he warns you of the consequences if you [choose] to choose otherwise. Why would you shun his gift?
- Gullible
  February 7
  Edit | Reply
  
  Suffering brings out the best in people. When you yourself suffer, you learn to rely on God. When you see someone else suffering, you have compassion and you help them. Without suffering in any way shape or form, there would be no compassion in the world and living a life for God would be much less of a commitment,
- adel
  March 7
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  God doesn't allow suffering
  I don't think that god will burn people in the hell for eternity.
  pain in worldly life is a bliss because we know pleasure when we taste the pain .
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Think small scale

This idea is no different from a parent disciplining their child. This doesn't mean they love the child any less in the end.

10% Voted for by Paradoxx, spanner, pwincessovfantasy, inksplatterskitty.

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God is not a sadist...

God never wanted us to suffer; he never wanted us to burn in hell for all eternity. It is the exact opposite of what he wanted. In Geneses, the beginning, there was no pain, suffering, or death. Even the animals’ didn’t consume flesh. We were in harmony with God. There was what you might call a ladder connecting us to God. He would even walk with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Hell wasn’t even meant for humans, it was reserved for Lucifer and his following of angels. but He did not want to go down without a fight, so he disguised himself as a serpent and all he had to do was ask one little question, "Is that what God REALLY said?" that was all it took to bring doubt into the minds of man and woman. That is when we "fell" off the edge, we found ourselves in a pit, looking for the Ladder, but it was gone.
We had sinned.
You see, sin is what separates us from God. We were made in his image, we were even given the choice of free will but the deciding factor is: we are not on the same level as God. he is holy, which means to be pure, to be different, which we are not. Our white robes were stained with dirt, and unlike him, we are unclean. And because of our sins everything is like how it is today; animals eat fellow animal's flesh, people die every 2 seconds, weather ruins lives, all of this resulting from the separation of purity between God and man. God is not a god of hate, of anguish, or sadism. God is love, and of peace and justice.
And because he is a god of love, he sent his only son to take your sins on his shoulders, to be our ladder (John 3:16). But we still have the choice to climb the ladder, to separate ourselves from those of the world, or to stay in our little pit, too tied up with our sins.
Since God is a God of comfort, if you accept him into your heart and receive him (climbing the ladder) he will bring you joy in knowing him and the reassurance that you will be reunited soon.
But God is also a god of justice. And the fate for those not wanting to choose the ladder over their own deeds will share the fate of Lucifer, and that of his minions, because they willingly chose not to be with God. And one who chooses not to be with God, who "rebels" against him and his offer to reunite with him, simply put, won’t ever be with him. They will be eternally separated from him in hell, with other fellow "rebels", and it’s no party in hell. The only reason anyone would go to hell is by their own choices not to follow God, not God hating you or something like that. in life he give you many chances to receive him unto yourself, but if you want your sin more than you want to live like him who died for you so you would not have to go to hell, your heart will start to harden against his nudging of your spirit, and you would most likely reject him for you own ways, entrapping yourself deeper in your "sin pit". but God wants to give you all the chances he can give to climb his Ladder, his free gift to all who want to be with him forever.
No matter how bad of a person you think you are, no matter what you have done, God is a God of forgiveness, he extends that ladder down to anyone who want out, and he will LIFT YOU UP out of the pit, see we don’t have to fell pain or suffering, but solace and love. "He brings hope for the helpless, and rest for the weary, and love for the broken heart. There is grace and forgiveness, mercy and healing, he'll meet you wherever you are...” "...and he will wipe every tear from your eye!”
No matter who you are, or what you have done, or what you have been through, God loves YOU! Whether you believe it or not, he does, and he wants very much to be with you. He never wanted us to suffer, and with him, you will not suffer like those without him, for they have none to nor nothing to cry on, to find peace, to find love, REAL love.
If you do want to climb that ladder, if you want to accept him into your heart, to be with him, say this prayer:
Lord, I am a sinner, and i know that i am separated from you from my sins and my choices to lives in the ways of the world, but no more. lord I want to be with you, I believe that you are my savior and that you died on the cross so that I did not have to feel pain, or live in impurity. you died so that my sins would be forgiven so I could be with you, so that my Crimson stains become as white as wool, so I accept you into my heart and into my spirit, thank you Lord for giving me this loving gift of salvation. in the name of Jesus Christ, my savior, amen.

If you have decided to pray this prayer, awesome! If you have not done so, maybe It is not your time, but don't be slow to act, It is a blessing to wake up each day, so try to treat each day as if it was your last. Either way, I hope I answered some questions you might have had on the subject.

7% Voted for by ps120, tfry, RisingTideofChrist.

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A...

loving God is what we all want God to be, not necessarily what God really is.
Get it?
We create the loving God but did the loving God create us?

7% Voted for by dollar, spanner, Queen Of Vanity.

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Doom Pickels
March 25, 2007
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Not really, The loving God in described ion the bible made people who found about God's love couldn't even fully understand it. Why would an infinite being, make himself flesh, and die for the ones who least deserved it. That is agape Love at its most devine state. And people back thn couldn't even believe it, and people now don't even believe it. Plus "gods" of love in other religeons are very materialistic sometimes. Or they don't have ALL the atrributes of the christian God.

1st corinthians 13 verses 4-8 says

"4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away."

A God of Love has thease attributes. And no other "God" of another religeon has all thease attributes like the Christian God.
- Kazrith
  March 31, 2007
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  you study those other religions?
raseyusmy
March 30, 2007
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Lol
You live ... because God so chooses. I unfortunately derive whether God is loving or not (hmmm, from experience, for one) from the Bible. This I don't do because my parents wanted this. By pure grace of God. I cannot comment on why our God (according to me its our God, but our God as I derive it from the Bible may be considered by you as "My God") allows suffering. From my part, I have found that suffering in the past has made me humble, and made me believe rather more than less. Perhaps then I haven't suffered enough (to stop believing). A pencil needs sharpening - You've probably heard that (saying) before. Anyway, this is the unloving God to Abraham:

By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Do you perhaps see some parallels between God and Abraham. God [is] loving, not because we want Him to be - he simply IS. Does not mean we should not FEAR and RESPECT him, yes. But, no doubt he is loving. If you believe different, we don't believe in the same God. The hardships are only temporarily, though hardships they are. If we could see beyond death, we could perhaps understand that death is an illusion. Perhaps the old martyrs could see this, for they knew Christ intimately. To die willingly... Is that what they wanted God to be? Belief is not that cheap. We cannot want God to be (and then he is). God is unchangeable. We can only try to understand.
Doom Pickels
March 31, 2007
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I've only studied the attributes of their Gods for a bit, just to see if they were even similar to the Christian God. I didn't study the religeon a lot, just the God. And I couldn't find another that had the same attributes. I also couldn't find another one that became flesh, and allowed himself to be crucified for the ones he created and rebelled against him. =)

So I didn't need to study the religeon, just the Gods of the religeon. But if I'm wrong, please tell me.
- Kazrith
  April 2, 2007
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  you need to do more studying
Doom Pickels
April 3, 2007
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Why? I just have to study the Gods. That in itself is all I need to declair that they are not like the christian God.
- Kazrith
  April 6, 2007
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  i have studied the christian god and have not found him loving. i havent studied the bible but you have, does that mean that your god is not loving?
Doom Pickels
April 6, 2007
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You're saying dieing for the people that hate you so they can life forever with you in paradise isn't loving? Your sayings that all the laws that he set to protect people from pain, wasn't an act of love? Was healing the sick, letting the blind see, restoring lepors, letting the deaf man hear, picking up the cripples man, serving others, and always being there for you isn't loving? How about creating you with a consience, so that if you never get to hear the laws of the bible. Is that not love? How about telling us not to eat "unclean" food. Because people back then probally didn't know bout bacteria. Is that not an act of love?

How about cursing the people that are breaking his comandments. That might not seem like an act of love, but if you look at it the right way it is. If people are murdering? They should be cursed. And they are. Sometimes with death. People that are worshiping false idols, when they know that the real God is God? That's spitting in Gods face. God isjust, and must curse them for that. If they are not cursed, they will continue doing the evil thing. And that will hurt them if they continue doing the wrong thing.

God tells you not to be sexually immoral. That doesn't seem like an act of love. But it is. He tells yout that there is consequenses for being sexually immoral. It's loving to tell people not to do something before they do it. Then they can't point fingers and say "nobody told me" when the consequenses are dealt.

There is a lot of things that people won't find loving about the christian God. Even though they are acts of love. You just have to veiw it in a way that makes sense.

And By the way. studying the christian God is impossible without studing the bible. You mught study christians, and what they teach. But you are using their words. Not the words of the bible. Study the bible, and you studie the word of God. And that is how you make the most accurate representation of the christian God.
- Kazrith
  April 7, 2007
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  "dying so others could live" that was jesus, gods son, not god himself.
  
  thing is, you have to study the religion to know that stuff, not just the god himself. you said before that you only studied the god, and not the religion itself (which includes religous texts) and now you are telling me to study all of it instead of a little chunk? so why do i have to study all of christanity to understand it all, but you wont study all of the other religions?
  
  side point, are you saying that homosexuals are sexually immoral?
Doom Pickels
April 7, 2007
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According to the bible, homosexuality is an immorality. And I'll trust the bible written by a God who loves the world a lot to set boundaries for everything, rather than what other people who make up their own morals. Do you think God says homosexuality is a moral wrong just to take away our fun? No, he says it to protect us. He says it because he loves us. He says it so that we have the best sex, not a perverted version of the Sex that he created for mankind. He tells us not to be sexually immoral (Heterosexual and homosexual), because sex with only your spouse has blessings unobtainable from being sexually immoral (Sex outside of marriage) Do you think God tells us sex beofre marriage is a big no-no, just because he likes to see us suffer? HECK NO! He says it so we know the boundaries.,and wont suffer the consequenses.

Plus I study the other "Gods" by what they teach, and stand for. In order for you to study the christian God, you must read what he stands for. And that is only possible by reading the bible yourself. In order to obtain an undertsanding of the christian God, you must read the whole bible. Reading the Quran is a little different. As they believe we have the same "God". But after reading it somewhat, it contradicts the bible. And the message is a lot different. So I've already come tot he conclusion that the muslum God is different from the christian God.
- Kazrith
  April 7, 2007
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  hahaha. actually, homosexuality is not mentioned as sexually immoral. neither is sex before marraige. what IS mentioned is sex with a woman who is married to another man. as in, sex with another mans property. a man can have sex with as many women as he wants as long as they are not owned by someone else. heck he can even marry more than one.
  
  another thing sexually immoral - having sex during a womans menstral cycle.
  
  there are a few others that dont need to be mentioned
Doom Pickels
April 7, 2007
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Homosexually is mentioned as sexually immoral in the bible.

Qupte from gotquestions.com

"The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for then to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality."

Being sexually immoral means that you have perverted the sex that God has ordained. Witch is one man and one women in marriage. Or you take the morals that God made out of sexual activities. Homosexuality is being sexually immoral because you take the Sex that god made, and took the laws of God out of it, and perverted it.

Quote from gotquestions.org

" “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife (not wives); and they shall become one flesh (not multiple fleshes)” (Genesis 2:24). We see in Deuteronomy 17:14-20, that the kings were not supposed to multiply wives."

So, the polygamists in the bible actually were disobeying God's comandements.

You can go to http://www.gotquestions.org/polygamy.html to read more about polygamy and the bible.

More quotes from Gotquestions.org

"The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27(; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God."

If you want to read the verses yourself, you can look them up at biblegateway.com

Why is having sex during a womans menstrual cycle being sexually immoral? Women are always in their mensrtrual cycle, aren't they? if you don't have sex with a women in the menstual cycle, theny you can't have kids... can you not? Or else, they wouldn't be ovulating. Unless you mean the menstrual PHASE. In witch the woman is bleeding.

And I'll simply tell you again, To be sexually immoral (bible-wise), is to take the laws God has set for sex out. Or removing the morals, leaving immorality. Homsexuality(bisexuality), polygamy, adultery, sex before marriage, etc... is sexually immoral. But you yourself don't veiw yourself as sexually immoral. Because you have your own version of morality. It may not be the "right" morality that has been set by God. But to you, you are not sexually immoral. But in God's eyes, you are. But God forgives all sins, and wipes us clean of them.
- Kazrith
  April 7, 2007
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  WOW your young! or maybe im just getting really OLD. anyways, having sex with a woman while she is "bleeding" is sexually immoral.
  
  course here is where my knowledge on the subject comes from:
  
  http://www.libchrist.com/bible/immoral.html
  
  a christian site no less.
- Kazrith
  April 7, 2007
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  Sigh, see, this is why i dont think your god is a loving god. homosexuality comes from sinning. RIGHT. hit that one dead on.
  
  by the way, what sins do our youth commit that leads them to become homosexual anyways?
Doom Pickels
April 8, 2007
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Easy, they allow homosexual desires to infultrate their minds. They don't stop thinking about men lustfully, and thus get ADDICTED to it. They choose to become homosexuals, and have a hard time choosing to stop. And when they try to stop, they can't without help. And then they go off complaining that they can't choose who they love. But they did have a choice. It's like a drug addict. he CHOOSES to get hooked on drugs in the first place (like ALL other sins). Then, as time progresses, he allows the drugs to continue to influence him. He becomes addicted. (Like how homosexuals become addicted to lust for men, or men become addicted to lust for women (vice versa), or murderes become addicted to killing (phycopaths), rapers become addicted to raping, theives become addicted to theiving, or how sinners become addicted to sin) Would the drug addict say, He can't choose what he allows into his body? He shouldn't, And if he really can't, he really abused then.

Why do you not think our god is a loving god? for saying homosexuality is a sin? If it's a sin, it's a sin, God can't lie about it. Do you think God tells you it's wrong just to make you suffer? No, he says it to protect you. here is an example.

Your mom makes delicious meat, but tells you that you can't have it. You decide to disobey her, and eat some of it. But your mother really wanted to use the maet for her pot roast (and you LOOOOOOOOVE the pot roast), but sense you already ate the meat for it, she can't give you any. And the pot roast takes a lot better than meat.

That's kind of like sex. God gives you rules to where sex should be. But if you go out of those guidelines, you can't get the absolute best, even though you think you are. God gives us rules because he loves us, and wants the best for us. Not because he wants to suck the fun out of life.
- Kazrith
  April 9, 2007
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  hmm... do you know what homosexual reversal therapy consists of? Shock therapy. they electracute you when you are thinking about your sexuality to condition you to stop thinking about such thoughts when they come up because you fear the pain.
  
  drug addicts go in for 2 weeks (gets rid of the physical addiction (2 weeks!)) and then counsiling to help with the psychological addiction (Hence AA).
  
  drug addicts are not shocked. EVER.
  
  he says its a sin to protect me? right. him saying that nearly KILLED me. people telling you you are discusting, good for nothing, less than an animal, was just the greatest, most caring, protective thing he could have said to people (i would use me, but i dont care whether he's there or not).
  
  really. the meat thing. its like this. the meat is the love of a woman. sure, its good. but the Pot Roast (sorry, dont eat raw meat, so i wouldnt have eaten the meat in the first place ;p) is the love of a man. it's sweet and filled with added textures of potatoes and carrots, the added spices of dill and rosemerry, the sweet juices and red wine poured over top.
  
  hey, it might not be that way for you, but it is for me.
Doom Pickels
April 8, 2007
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Well, I never even got into the subject about period sex. And my wife would be in soo much pain (I believe), that I would spend the whole night comforting her instead of fufillings my sexual desires. I'll have to look that up though. Now that you otld me. =\
- Kazrith
  April 9, 2007
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  wow, you are young. some women, who are bothered the most during that point in the cycle are not wanting comfort. good luck wiht that though.
Doom Pickels
April 9, 2007
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?
He is an infinite God, and his word is law. His law is there to protect us, and live life to the fullest. And failure to do so has consequences.

Please rephrase that, you lost me. =P
- Kazrith
  April 9, 2007
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  rephrase what? which?
- Kazrith
  April 9, 2007
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  hmm... so he says. sounds like he's trying to hide something if you ask me.
- Kazrith
  April 13, 2007
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  sigh.
  
  im going to try to explain something in a round about way, bare with me.
  
  a Hot, popular girl asks you on a date. you two start going out for days and you really think you are starting to fall for her.
  then your best friend comes to you one day and says that he saw your girl kissing the football quarterback. you confront her about it and find out that she was never actually with you, but merely using you as a cover for her parents so she could date the quarterback without any questions asked from the parents.
  would you be happy knowing that the girl never had any feelings for you?
Doom Pickels
April 12, 2007
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god didn't ask you when he made us =P

Plus, God is hiding what hurts us, not what truely helps us. You may think that being bi is great, but it is really keeping you from enjoying the fullest expiriences of love. Sure you may reply "I know I'm getting the best", or "I doubt that what I have now isn't greate", but you fail to realise that there is something better.
Doom Pickels
April 14, 2007
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Kaz,

If that happened to me, then I would just forget about it. Someone like that isn't worth your life. =
- Kazrith
  April 15, 2007
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  amuse me
  how would you feel?
Doom Pickels
April 16, 2007
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Well, Because I know that a girl that doesn't have feelings for you isn't worth hurting over, plus I have a God that brings all comport in times of pain. I wouldn't feel that bad. If bad at all. As For some reason, If A girl does something that I don't like. And conflicts with was i desire in a woman's personality, I no longer like them. And I would suffer not in the least bit.
- Kazrith
  April 16, 2007
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  ah. so this girl that you love, you techniquely would just stop that feeling that you have for her? it doesnt work this way. you cannot cut out feelings forever. you know just as i do, how you would feel.
  
  i believe the word/emotion is betrayal.
  
  this is the feeling you wish to subject men and women to who get to have the pleasure of falling in love with people who have to depress their real loves.
  
  is that right?
Doom Pickels
April 23, 2007
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Well, I have loved a few women, but if they do something I don't agree with. I can't see myself living together with them for the rest of my life. then I just don't like them anymore. It's a perk of knowing what you want, and knowing that what you want is what God wan'ts for you as well.

I have loved many women, but Many of them have shown to conflict with my beliefs. Now I no longer like them.

I do not understand your physcological mumbo jumbo. I just know what I want, and a woman who does that Is not who I want. =)
- Kazrith
  April 25, 2007
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  hahahah
  you have loved many women. you seem to be approching that 1000 partner quota faster than i am. your 14 and have loved many women. im 19 and i have had a crush on 2 guys.
  
  but you round about answered my question
  
  you dont want a woman who doesnt love you the way you love them. this is my point. why should you force a guy who cannot love a woman into a "love" relationship with them?

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as a non-believer

a loving god allows suffering so the love people find within the suffering means so much more.

what was so hard about that?

7% Voted for by Kazrith, spanner, pvtcreek.

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How can a Loving God allow suffering?

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You guys caught me agian

Yeah...

Paradox of life

Suffering...

God doesn't allow suffering

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Lol

amuse me

hahahah

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