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Updated to avoid plagerism... =P1- the coconino sandstone formation inside the grand canyon (that is 100m thick and is about 250,000 km2) Shows that it was all laid down quickly in deep fast flowing water. (sediments do settle down in fast flowing water, It happens in rivers) Plus all the layers look as if they were rapidly deposited with little time breaks. One of the evidences supporting this is that the whole canyon sequence is bent at a place called the kaibab upwarp. (some places are bent dramatically without even cracking). This means that the rocks should have been soft when they were deposited. The cigarette wraped in aluminum foil isn't a good argument because the medium that is surrounding the cigarrette is malleable. Thus the ciragette wouldn't break because the aluminum foil is extremely bendable. A more accurate representation of rocks would be a hard tube of plastic fit snugly around the cigaratte. If the plastic is bent, the cigarette will break. As the "rocks" surrounding the "cigarrete" would be hard like the plastic, not tin foil. More evidence supporting fast deposition would be tree fossiles that stretch through multiple rock layers. That would mean the tree would have to be standing for 5-10 million years allowing another rock layer to be put on top of it. But tree's can't stay standing that long. Even in dry places like the sahara desert, were sand storms would eventually erode away at the tree. It can't be in a moist area or it will decay. It can't be fossilized if it is not underground were minerals could saturate into the cells of the tree. If the tree were to sink to the bottom of a lake. (Or simply sink into deep water of a global flood), the process would have to be fast, and the water would have to be deep. Or scavangers would soon eat away at the tree. Not allowing fossilization. Proof that trees just didn't fall into lakes would be that some trees are petrified, and turned into coal on the other end. This would mean the tree actually had to be covered in multiple layers with no time gap to allow it to be both petrified and coalerized. Delicate surface features (Between rock layers) like ripples and footprints would have been eroded completely away long before the 5 million years were up. Meaning that there couldn't be substantial time breaks between the settling sediments to allow the images to be preserved. Lack of fossilized soil between the rock layers is pretty evidence proof that there wasn't enough time for rocks to break down and be converted into coil. A possibility would be that soil would be completely wiped (through a catastrophic explosion away as a new layer would be formed, but that would mean that all delicate structures (explained above) would also be completely wiped away. Lack of any erosion between the rock layer show that there wasn't a large time gap between the creation of the rock layers. And clastic dykes and pipes of water saturated sand was sqeezed up through multiple rock layers. But in order for this to happen, the sand should have still been unsettled, and still very "squishy" to allow it to puch into rock layers. And the rokc layers above it must've been soft, or it would cause substantial cracks.100% Voted for by Doom Pickels, frndofyaweh, Dwn.
Plus there is very hard evidence that humans and dinosaurs coexsisted. There are many historical record of "dragons" that fit descriptions of some dinosaurs perfectly. Some of thease are triceritops, T-rex, allosaurus (Known as burrunjor for aboriginal people), ankylosaurus, and stegasaurus, sauropods (Diplodocus and Aptasaurus types), and a plesiosaurus (known as the nessie, or yarru for aboriginal people). There is also unfossilized dinosaur bones that still have flexible tissue in it with red blood cells. Such as the bones of the "Kulta". The Kulta was an allosaurus type animal (according to aborigines). There was even T-res bones found with it's soft tissue still in tact.
Other facts to support the young earth theory is that there are human artifacts in rock layers, and some even in coal. There are also many times were there are human footprints found right next to dinosaur footprints. Some people also tell me that the human foot prints could easily have been made millions of years after the dinosaur footprints. This is first off is a crazy implication. First of all the ground would have to remain untouched by any form of erosion for millions of years without it being buried in sediments (Witch would be needed in order for it to fossilize) Then a person would have to walk over hard rock and make a footprint, or walk over soft ground that has a dinosaur footprint from millions of years ago.... If the ground is soft, then you are saying a lot if you say the dinosaur footprint was able to stay in moist ground for that much time. There has also been human bones found in rock layers with dinosaur bones...
Plus the fossiles look as if they have been buried in a global flood. As less mobile creatures would tend to be buried faster, not allowing them to decay if they were to be able to move up. Ocean plants would be buried first, then swampy plants, then high plants last . (This would cause confusion, as it would look like ocean plants would evolve into land plants)
"Another factor is the sorting action of water. A coal seam at Yallourn in Victoria, Australia, has a 0.5 m thick layer of 50% pollen. The only way such a layer of pollen could be obtained is through the sorting action of water in a massive watery catastrophe that gathered the plant material from a large area and deposited it in a basin in the Yallourn area." Quote from Answersingenesis.com
Thats all I have to say now =P


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Kazrith
March 24, 2007
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fast moving water does not deposit much besides very large boulders.
evolution does not state that things get bigger with time, nor does it state that they get more sophisticated. it states that those most suited to their enviroments survive.
i have an experiment for you to do dp. this might be hard to find but get a ciggarette, wrap it in tin foil and bend it. bend it to break it in half. i bet you it wont break! (same thing happens with rocks)
umm... there arent many vertabrate sea creatures to begin with...
seriously doom, please please please can you give me the links to where you found out this information?!
and please pleas please stop using only half of the truths of science to disprove it. there is always someone out there that knows alot of it.
ps: science is open to change. just look at how DNA became known as the genetic material. everyone thought it was proteins. all the conservative scientists do is push people to be absolutely curtain about their findings.
March 24, 2007
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The bible says the fountains of the deep broke, meaning that a mass amount of water under the earths surface, would have broken and get pushed into the land above it because water is less dense than most rocks. Then after all the erosion, the sediments would slowly settle to the bottom. But the flood just didn't happen as fast as you believe it did, it was catastrophic none the less, but there was still enough time for people to run to their destinations. If not, there remains would be pulverized.
Plus I don't know what you are talking about. The waters receeded almost a year after the flood started. Leaving plenty of time for people to rot away and buried animals to be fossilized. (it doesn't take long for animals to fossilize)
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fast moving water does not deposit much besides very large boulders.
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Does a flood always stay fast moving? It slows down. Fast moving water would cause many sediments to be picked up. Then slwoing down would cause the leyers to form. Not only that, but the layers look exsactly the way they should if they were formed under moving water...
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evolution does not state that things get bigger with time, nor does it state that they get more sophisticated. it states that those most suited to their enviroments survive.
i have an experiment for you to do dp. this might be hard to find but get a ciggarette, wrap it in tin foil and bend it. bend it to break it in half. i bet you it wont break! (same thing happens with rocks)
umm... there arent many vertabrate sea creatures to begin with...
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There you go again, trying to blur the difference between microevolution, and macroevolution. In order for Macroevolution to be true, things must be getting more complex, and better. What the definition your giving for is microevolution. Witch is specification. The animals that survive are the ones with the genes that allow it to survive the longest in that enviorment. If the ones that live the longest breed, the genes that allowed them to survive would be more likely to be put into their offspring, allowing them to survive as well. That is natural selection or microevolution. But this process could never turn a single celled organism into a bug for instance. The genetics to make the bug simply isn't in the DNA of a germ. And maybee mutations could cause it to survive better. But so far, any mutation that causes bacteria to "evolve" really is a loss of genetics, or a deformity that causes them to survive. Like a mutation that causes a bacteria's cell wall not to form, thus making pennicilin ineffective, but the mutation is harmful in normal conditions. Not evolution, just a harmful mutaiton that caused it to survive a bit longer.
Plus a cigarette isn't a rock. I cannot use a cirgarrette to base my conclusions of what would happen to a rock. Rocks simply don't have the bending capabilities as a cigarette (Cigarettes aren't compacted together the same way as rock. Plus the reason why a cigarette doesn't craxk is because what it is covered in is malleable (aluminum foil), the rock the surrounds a rock layer isn't malleable as much as aluminum. A more accurate reprsentation is sticking a cigarette in a hard plastic tube, then try to bend it, it will crack.
Plus, all whales and most fish have vertabrae. The point made is that vertabra animals (witch are more mobile) would be less likely to be found as they could move a lot faster, and thus would be more likely to decay instead of be fossilized.
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and please pleas please stop using only half of the truths of science to disprove it. there is always someone out there that knows alot of it.
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Please please stop saying I'm hiding the truths. When It's you who is. You believe that is. You believe that I'm the one who is hiding truths, when I'm the one who is presenting the truths not put inside textbooks.
Plus you have yet to talk about the tree's going through multiple rock layers. How long do trees stay standing? Trees can't last 5 milliong years in even the dryest climate. (Well, maybee it could, but certainly couldn't account for all the trees that stretch through multiple rock layers.
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ps: science is open to change. just look at how DNA became known as the genetic material. everyone thought it was proteins. all the conservative scientists do is push people to be absolutely curtain about their findings.
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Aint it odd that science changes all the time, yet the bible has still remained the same? The bible always said the earth was round, even though people believed the earth was flat. Science finally caught up to the bible. The Bible talked about how the ocean floor was filled with trenches. People back then thought that the ocean floor was just sand from coast to coast. Finally science had to CATCH up with the bible. The Bible doesn't need to be changed because it's right. But other theories do because they need to fit with observational science.
Kazrith
March 24, 2007
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so, again, where are you getting your so called facts eh?
March 24, 2007
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Plus all bible translations mean 99.95%, that means that there is at most .05% corruption. And some of that corruption is caused because the languages change, not because the bible itself changes. Examples are like the word replenish. It used to mean "to fill", but now it means "to restore to former value" or something like that.
Plus the bible itself hasn't changed (at least, hardly at all), but the people who don't follow it completely. As they don't take on the full foundtaion of the bible, and thus don't have a solid faith as those who follow the bibile completely.
March 24, 2007
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frndofyaweh
March 25, 2007
The Bible has NOT changed
That is just a theory and cannot be proven at all Kazrith. You didn't read that Cigarette part very well either, he just explained above why the Cigarette trick will not work as a demonstration. Read it again more carefully Kazrith.I have been studying paleontology since I was 5 years old and I knew back then as a NON CHRISTIAN that evolution was the strangest science I had read. It still is wierd, even today when compared to many other more reasonable scientific theories.
Kazrith
March 25, 2007
and actually the ciggarette example DOES work. why? cause rocks can bend! sounds proposterous but they can. when they do bend, alot of heat is produced and this helps the rocks bend, but as you said, the tin foil keeps the brittle ciggarette from breaking, so does the layers of rocks above it.
you may have studied paleontology frnd, but obviously not geology.
March 25, 2007
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That means the rock layers above (AND below) it must be soft. meaning that a lot of layers had to be soft in order for it to work. Layers certainly bend now, but they can't bend a lot, but not as sharply as we see them today unless they were still soft and not yet hard, meaning they must've been hot, or they havn't had time to become hard. And it's unlikely that the heat would allow brittle rocks to remain porous. As heat and pressure would cause it to become more compacted, much like other metamorphic rocks.
Here is a picture of the kaibab upwarp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/Magazines/images/251Cross_Section.jpg
As you can see, all the layers are bents similary, but some of the rocks can't bend at all even with heat or slowly, unless they were bent before they hardened. indicating a flood laying down all of the sediments, bending, and then hardening. But I wasn't there when they bent, so i can't make a 100% accurate statement on it.
March 25, 2007
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March 25, 2007
Kazrith
March 26, 2007
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wrong and wrong
as you compress a rock ever so slowly, heat is formed, which gives the rock maleability. this allows the rock to arch into an anticline or a sincline.the word homosexuality does not mean "he who lies with a man" but "he who can love a man." any man can "lie" with a man, but not every man can love a man. this is a blatant error for if the bible used to say he who lies with a man, and they replaced it with a word they thought was equivilent but isn't, then the bible no longer means what it used to, and thus, tampering, thus change.
March 29, 2007
Plus The bilble simply says have no lust for anyone other than your spouse, so it doesn't matter what gender it is, if they are not your spouse then you shouldn't desire them. And the biblical meaning for marriage is heterosexual marriage.
Plus, some rocks have next to no malleability and cannot change shape as rapidly as what we saw in the grand canyon. And plus you are ommitting a lot of facts. Were are your answers for them?
Here is a quote from wikipedia
"Malleability occurs as a result of the metallic bonding found in most metals; the sea of free electrons formed during the loss of electrons from the outer-most electron shells of the metal atoms allow layers of the metal to slide over one another. This makes metals malleable."
And some rocks have absolutely no malleability, and thus, after they form bonds with eachother, it would be impossible for enough "bendage" to happen without it cracking. As rocks can bend a lot, there is a huge limit to non malleable rocks. And pressure and heat would not be able to stop it.
You can try it yourself, get some chalk, wrap it it more nonmalleable rocks. Heat it and add pressure, and try to bend it, you can bend it some, maybee a lot, but not enough, and it will eventually start cracking. Because the ability to bedn that far is not inside the molecules. It just cannot happen AFTER the chemical reactions have occured. This is evidence supporting the global flood, and having non malleable particles makeing chemical reactions before the sediments turned into pure stone, and then they bend a little more after the flood.
Kazrith
April 2, 2007
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April 3, 2007
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And please answer all my points, not just the ones you can answer. It's a lot better to say "I cant answer that", than to just leave me angry that you can't use some scientific facts to enlighten me, and don't tell me anything.
Kazrith
April 4, 2007
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i say rocks are malleable when great pressures and heat are involved, and you do not believe me, i say that Carbondating does not depend on oxygen levels, (it still doesnt, you dont need O2 to decompose C14-->N14)
some rocks have next to no malleablity WITHOUT pressure.
your bible things. ie "the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman," BUT the government says (canada's) it can be between 2 people.
Now, what you do not know about is MSM or Men having Sex with Men. didnt actually want to cover this, your a little young. but there are men out there how have sex with other men but do not classify themselves as homosexual.
and for my many repeted topic of why man cannot lie with men. in the time of paul (or whoever wrote that part) there was a temple/monestary that sold their bodies (male) for money. they also sold their acolytes. this made paul mad (who probably already was since he was "hearing" god) and decided to say god didnt like men who lie with men.
as before, i have said that lying with a man is not the same as actually loving a man. a man loving a man like your father loves your mother. it says nothing against that love.
the bible says no lust unless they are your spouse. well let me let you in on a little secret. by the time your really married, there isnt much lust left in the relationship. the lust starts the relationship (most times) and love replaces it.
is that all the facts you need? i could probably find a passion versus "love" graph if you wanted.
April 6, 2007
Plus, you seem to be twisting the definitions of homosexuality. Let me get the definition.
Main Entry: ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-"sek-sh&-'wa-l&-tE
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex
If you have sex with another man, your homosexual. It seems pretty clear. And the Bible is against any pervertions of the original sex created for mankind. Man and women. (as sin perverts all human needs, and turns them into obominations, like hunger to gluttony, and sleep , a gift from god, into laziness.)
Lieing with someone means having a sexual intercorse with them. That includes BJs.
And I say that some rocks cannot be bent that way even with pressure because it's not in their molecular makeup to bend that way without chemically changing. I say that the rock layers are much better explained by sediments falling down, and being twisted in their very weird ways before turning into metamorphic rocks.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i1/warped.asp
There is an article that can help explain some of it.
My main point is, is that some rocks cannot bend that much. They aren't ductile enough to do such a thing. Like a candlestick. At room tempurature, it breas if you bend it. If it's heated, it bends like caramel. but if it's heated too much, it will burn. Same thing with rocks. They must be heated to bend, and pressure must be sued as well, but some rocks do not have the evidence of being "burned". They are still brittle and have no malleability. Yet their chemical composition would be completely different if they were hot enough and pressurized enough to bend.
Plus, I would rather believe the bible's marriage instead of canada's marriage. As canada got the law from a democracy, but the bible got it from God's laws. I'd trust Gods unchanging law over people's changing beliefs.
Kazrith
April 7, 2007
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for the second part, homosexuality "refers to sexual and romantic attraction between individuals of the same sex" (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Homosexuality+) and romantic, or romantic love refers to "a form of love that is often regarded as different from mere needs driven by sexual desire, or lust." GASP.
any man can lie with a man, but not every man can "romatically Love" a man.
another point, ever notice that that bible doesnt refer to female homosexuals?
third, i LOVE your wax refrence, because it is Perfect for what i have to say ;P. as we all know, wax has a VERY strong molecular bonds. but also, as we all know, it is the bonds between the wax molecules that are weak and allow breaking.
how does that refer to rocks? now like your site says, there has to be huge amounts of pressure for rocks to fold. what they fail to mention is where that pressure comes from. it comes from the tectonic plates. millions of years ago, the pacific plate was pushing into the North American plate and forced the rocks upwards. how? pressure. and with pressure comes heat, with this pressure and heat, we are able to "modify" the bonds between the rock molecules (not the bonds in the molecule itself), and thus, having rocks bend. now millions of years ago, the Rocky Mountains (in which i was refering to above) were a Much Much taller (cannot remember the number off hand but could find it if you want it). they were so high that you couldnt walk over them the air was so thin. this height explains why they are the size they are now.
ah, i see. but if you follow the bibles law, anyone can come kick down your door and have you burned at the stake for practising witchcraft. you dont get a trial, you dont get nothing but the "cleansing touch of fire."
i am going to ask a simple question though. how do you know what is written in the bible is what god wanted written in the bible?
April 7, 2007
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Female homosexuals were so much less likely back in those times, it was probally impossible. BUt they would also be considered harlots, or women without the moral values ordained by God. And the bible talks about harlots as a whole.
Plus, the article DID say what this extreme pressure was. It was the catastrophy of Noahs flood. When the lithosphere cracked, and continental drift started.
Here is an article about continental drift
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/continental11.asp
Plus, the reason wax bends is because it has the ability to bend. But some rocks cannot do so unless the bonds between the molecules aren't in the way that is needed to allow it to bend that much. A good explanation is that the rocks were once bendable not long after the sediments settled on the land, and bent while it was still soft. But simply, some rocks (SOME) can't bend that much without chemically changing. Because it just isn't in their ability to bend that way.
"ah, i see. but if you follow the bibles law, anyone can come kick down your door and have you burned at the stake for practising witchcraft. you dont get a trial, you dont get nothing but the "cleansing touch of fire.""
The bible doesn't tell us to do that. All the laws in the bible are correct, because they were written by a supernaturally inspired people. They are the right laws that protect us.
How do I know that the book is actually the word of God? Simply. It's right. It helps me all the time with all activities. It is right when "science" says it's wrong.
The bible said the earth was round, when people believed the earth was flat. The bible said the earth floats in space, when people used to believe that land floated on top of water. And that was just it. The bible says that the ocean floor was filled with trenches and such, when people believed the ocean floor was juts sand from coast to coast. The bible was right, then science had to catch up. The bible says something. "sceience" goes against it. Then new discoveries show that the bible was right in the first place... Does it not make more sense that the bible will be right, and disagree with the teaching of the world if it was written by people supernaturally inspired by God?
Studies show that women (Men weren't studied, but if they were, the probally would show the same effects) who remained virgins until they were married show that they are having the best sex out there. The most pleasurable sex. The bible is right, even though you are told something else. Does it not make more sense that a God would who loved you to give you rules, so that you have the best pleasure? Yes. We have thease rules. Other facts. The bible says the stars are moving away from the earth. It said this when people believed that to be false. The bible says a lot of this, and has a lot of rules. They may seem wrong, but they are right. And they are important in having the more fufilled life in this world. THAT is how I KNOW it's the word of God. Because it is right, even when people say it's not. ANd it doesn't change just so people believe it.
Plus, God only wrote the 10 comandements. The rest of the bible was written by people that were supernaturally inspired by god to write it. And I know it's the same thing because the rewriting process that scribes used to copy it was flawless. Plus, it's been translated over and over again and still says the same thing in all 24,000 different translations, and versions.
Don't you think God "preserved his word" just like he said he would in the bible?
~God bless
Robert
Kazrith
April 7, 2007
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these psychotic, sorry, supernaturally inspired(sorry, in a sarcastic mood) people, who heard the word of god, do you think that they were able to understand what he wanted them to write?
ah doom, you are so young yet it puts stitches in my sides. i do truely enjoy reading what ya write.
its amazing though, that, in all the philosophical debates i have had on god and science, that all the religious people spout off how the bible said all these things about science and yet, unlike everything else, they dont quote where in the bible it comes from. weird isnt it??
gods 10 commandments. i know three: thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet thy neighbour.
- there all pretty straight foreward, even i couldnt mess around with them. course they are also common sense that any bloke that climbed a mountain, with a lot of time to himself could have thought up.
April 8, 2007
"Job 26:10
He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters,At the boundary of light and darkness."
"Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. "
Claiming the earth is round. AND that the universe is expanding ("science" had to catch up with the bible)
"Job 26:7
He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing."
Implying that the earth literally does hang upon nothin. (science had to catch up with the bible)
" Job 38:31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades"
Implying that stars are moving away from eachother
"Job 38:16 Have you entered the springs of the sea?Or have you walked in search of the depths?"
Or loose the belt of Orion?"
Springs of the sea refers to modern day "hot water vents"
I just foudn a site from google, it might answer some more.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2191
They are clear and strait forward, because our God is clear, and strait forward. He tells you what is wrong and right. You may think that killing is wrong, coveting is wrong, stealing, etc.. is wrong. But that is because christian morals have already infultraded you, and your way of thinking. Thease morals originally came from God, and was passed down becuase it works so well.
But the avereage man doesn't glow when they walk down a mountain without eating for 40 days or nights. Plus some commandments weren't agreeable. And they owuldn't be something that an idiot would write. Take for example, do not covet. WHy not covet? Nothin is wrong with wanting someone else's items. But it was SPECIFICALLY written because it is wrong, and it will also lead you to do other wrong things. Plus it eats away at your heart untill you slowly give into those terrible whipsers of sin that scream "Take it", or "kill him". Thats what happened to king david. He coveted the wife of someone else, and BAM, people died. It's a sad thing.
The whole book of deut 5 (10 comandments)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=5&chapter=5&version=50
Some of those, a normal person wouldn't think of, yet they are very important.
Kazrith
April 9, 2007
any kid whose looked down from a tree or a cliff notices things are smaller.
tents have fixed sizes, the universe isnt a fixed size.
the earth does hang onto things. gravity is what holds it where it is. bible, again, wrong.
" Job 38:31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades"
- not enough info to determine anything.
"Have you entered the springs of the sea?Or have you walked in search of the depths?"
- implies that water from underneath the oceans fuels our seas. probably where the water for noahs flood was thought to originate from (which is also wrong).
_ walked in search of the depths. mearly philosophical, meant to get the reader thinking about things greater than themselves.
weird, i have broken so many of his commandments. i use is name in vain, i work on sabbath, i dont believe in him, (geez, even says he is a jelous god tsk)
respect mother and father. sorta required. shall not murder... commit adultery (cant really, not much for sleepin with married women), never stole anything (not stupid), bare false witness against a neighbour (i have lied a few times, guess that ones got me).
do i envy? course, who doesnt. that is a stupid one but probably is meant for people who absolutely need and then go and steal it.
does god speak english?
April 9, 2007
That's the point of the tent analogy. Because the curtain is being stretched out. Just like science says what is happening to the universe. The bible is right, and your trying to mess with words just to make Gods word look bad.
There you go baffling words again. If you want to make a point, try not acting like a (bleep). The poetic statement "the lord hangeth the earth upon nothing" means that earth is floating in space without any string, etc... holding it up. And gravity isn't the reason why the earth floats. Gravity prohibits floating, as it causes all objects to attract to eachother, plus what's stopping us from saying that gravity was the way the lord "hungeth" the earth in the first place.
"not enough info to determine anything."
What's not to understand? The star clusters are moving away from eachother. And noone exept God can bind them.
"- implies that water from underneath the oceans fuels our seas. probably where the water for noahs flood was thought to originate from (which is also wrong).
_ walked in search of the depths. mearly philosophical, meant to get the reader thinking about things greater than themselves."
No it doesn't. It's telling us that there are springs inside the ocean. Completely different. Plus the flood of noah did come from "the fountains of the deep" or giant amouns of water trapped in the crust bursting fowarth. (seismic activity has shown there are HUGE chanbers of water in the earth today, and magma is saturated in a lot of water)
Now wait a second. You saying envy isn't bad? it certainly is. Its a very terrible thing that hurts many people. WAnting something that someone else has is not right. And proof that the 10 comandments weren't made by an idiot, but someone smart enough to realize that envy causes pain. (God) Take for example the girl who envies another girls body. It causes them grief. And sometimes eating disorders.
God speaks all tounges. Not just thousands, but all 6 billion languages. As no 2 people have the exsact same meaning for all the words they know, and know the exsact same words as someone else. Even illiterate children have a way to communicate.
The bible isn't wrong, it's right because God doesn't lie. And what was true back then is still true today. The bible doesn't need to change because it was right the fist time (have you seen the shirt that said "I'm already done, dum***, because I did it right the first time")
When God tells us something, we should understand that the bible is never wrong. Proven through it's words, I have seen that it is inded true.
And you breaking 10 comandments is proof on how evolution really hurts people. Without the bible, morality is a wishy washy thing. You may thing what you do is OK, but it isn't =P That is the point I make. Without and absolute authority, morals and the basis for right and wrong go to shatters. As people try to make their own morals.
Kazrith
April 9, 2007
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never saw that shirt but i do have one that says "lead me not to temptation, i can find it myself" ;)
thank you for sayin i'm wrong! but who says the way that you read it means you are right eh? thing is DP, written word is open to interpretation. how i read it isnt always the way you read it. we have different backgrounds (obviouslyactually yes, i am saying envy is not bad. envy can fuel us to make us better people. envy (as in the case of the girl) can also be discructive.
we live in a grey world. there is no deffinate right or deffinate wrong, there are no deffinate deffinitions to what we are here for (heck, who said we are here for any reason?)
for you, your religion is perfect. for me its not. for you, its absolute truth, for me, a bunch of lies where people tried to control a population. who says it is not both?
breaking the ten commandments hurt me? how? when? breaking most of them gave me a second chance at life.
lol, i bet i have higher, stricter morals than even your parents
"without and absolute authority, morals and the basis for right and wrong go to shatters. as people try to make their own morals." --> that makes no sense. are you saying that without some Big Guy, the white and black world you precive, doesnt exist? --> if only that world existed...
April 12, 2007
That is just one example.
Plus, what you consider to be "good" envy, isn't envy at all. That is mear inspiration. Envying is desiring something someone else has, and letting it hurt you. But if you work for what someone else has, it isn't envy, just motivation. There is a difference
"we live in a grey world. there is no deffinate right or deffinate wrong, there are no deffinate deffinitions to what we are here for (heck, who said we are here for any reason?)"
That proves my point, we need an avolute authorty to define what is right and wrong. If you believe you are an evolved animal, there is no such thing as right and wrong, as all live just randomly evolved from dead chemicals.
"for you, your religion is perfect. for me its not. for you, its absolute truth, for me, a bunch of lies where people tried to control a population. who says it is not both?"
That's because I read the religeion with an open mind. And if I didn't do that, I would sitll be an evolutionist. You read it HOPEING to disagree with it. I read it for knowledge on changing my own character.
"breaking the ten commandments hurt me? how? when? breaking most of them gave me a second chance at life.
lol, i bet i have higher, stricter morals than even your parents"
Easy, you almost kkilled yourself from grief, because you did something other perceived as immoral (witch was immoral), and you didn't seek comfort in the right places.
Plus, you can't even define morals, as you said yourself there is no way of truely defining right and wrong.
I'm saying that without an absolute authority, people's morals would clash. How would you know your morals are right? They disagree with other people's morals. Plus, if everything is just chemicals, what right does anyone have to even try to define morals in the first place? There has to be something more if you even believe there is something called morals.
Kazrith
April 13, 2007
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you are right, envy is a modivator. but it is still envy. you cant change the emotion just because it is a modivator. but as i said, there is good and there is bad envy.'
do we? do we need something to tell us that, when our guts turn after doing something "immoral" is truly immoral? you need someone to tell you what that feeling comes from?
"if you evolved from an animal, there is no right and wrong" hmmm.... maybe you are right. but from whose persective is it right? i doubt that the slaves thought that how they were treated is right (slaves are even mentioned in the 10 commandments). god merely gives you an excuse to look at what you think is right, not what those choices affect other people.
can i ask you something? do you actually read the bible, or do you have someone reading it to you? do you yourself read all of it before a minister or any other christian disiple read it to you?
Nope. I never actually committed any godly moral offense. still havent. i nearly killed myself because i didnt think i could live with everyone being dissapointed in me. (this is a direct refrence to what i say at the bottom of this comment, about hurting.) i thought that, if god didnt like me, and everyone i cared about didnt like me, what was the point of living when no one loves you? (that would be what other people do to create a pain in which i have to live in/with). besides, where would i go for the "right" comfort? some priest? a gay to straight camp? i found comfort in a different place than you might find it. i found it by letting go of something i cant touch. this may not even make sense to you, but if you dont have some almightly being breathing down your neck, the rejection of the ones you love is much easier to bare.
ah but there is a way to define a certain bunch of morals that are right for an INDIVIDUAL. for me, if i cause someone pain, it is wrong. that is where I and your god dissagree.
if we came from chemicals, then you have discovered the purpose of life! to live and define a set of ways in which you make the pain which surrounds you a little more tolerable, then you have lived a full life. how do you do that? by living by your own morals, something you derived yourself.
April 14, 2007
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And the bible should be read plainly by everyone.
"do we? do we need something to tell us that, when our guts turn after doing something "immoral" is truly immoral? you need someone to tell you what that feeling comes from?"
My gut churns when people believe in evolution, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. What I say doesn't effect the truth. Just because I see evolution as sickening doesn't mean it is. It's only what God says that matters. My point is, that just because someone believes it's immoral doesn't mean it really is. Hindus believe eating cow meat is terrible. Does that mean eating cows are bad? Plus, some people disagree with eachother. It owuld be impossible to come up to a conclusion as people will always have differences of what is right and wrong, unless they derive it from the only being that knows all right and wrongs, God.
"hmmm.... maybe you are right. but from whose persective is it right? i doubt that the slaves thought that how they were treated is right (slaves are even mentioned in the 10 commandments). god merely gives you an excuse to look at what you think is right, not what those choices affect other people."
The bible teaches that you should treat slaves just as you would a normal person. And the bible says all slaves should be set free after 7 years of serving. So the bible is against any inhumane treatment of ANYONE. Plus, some slaves are treated very fairly. And are paid for their works. being a slave just meant you are in possesion of someone else because you are debt, and you are trying to work your way out. The bible is against inhumane treatment of those in debt.
"can i ask you something? do you actually read the bible, or do you have someone reading it to you? do you yourself read all of it before a minister or any other christian disiple read it to you?"
I read the bible myself, as anyone true christian should. As man is falliable and can give the wrong answers. But God's word is true, and I am only able to find that truth by reading the bible myself.
"Nope. I never actually committed any godly moral offense. still havent. i nearly killed myself because i didnt think i could live with everyone being dissapointed in me. (this is a direct refrence to what i say at the bottom of this comment, about hurting.) i thought that, if god didnt like me, and everyone i cared about didnt like me, what was the point of living when no one loves you? (that would be what other people do to create a pain in which i have to live in/with). besides, where would i go for the "right" comfort? some priest? a gay to straight camp? i found comfort in a different place than you might find it. i found it by letting go of something i cant touch. this may not even make sense to you, but if you dont have some almightly being breathing down your neck, the rejection of the ones you love is much easier to bare."
God's love is unconditional love. God loved you when you believed noone loved you. And you turned your back on him. He doesn't like the sin that you have commited against him, but he loves you. Still does. tomorrow is never guaranteed. Maybee you should find the true love that God gives.
"John 3:16 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
God loves everyone on this planet, with more lvoe than anyone can imagine. He loved you before you were gay, loves you now when you are gay. And will help you be cleansed of your sins.
"ah but there is a way to define a certain bunch of morals that are right for an INDIVIDUAL. for me, if i cause someone pain, it is wrong. that is where I and your god dissagree."
But The morals God ordains are for everyone. I may hurt you, but it could be out of love. It isn't pain alone. I am hurt when God uses my consience against me, but that is an act of love, so I don't do it again. Painb may be inflicted, but it could be fore helping someone. Like knocking out a friend so he doesn't commit suicide yet. Or using peer pressure on someone so they don't become addicted to a drug. Those are acts of love. It's not that you want to hurt them, but you must.
Now, You may not cause someone pain, but it is still wrong. Take for example lieing to your parent. You don't cause them pain, but it is still wrong. You have your own definition of right and wrongs. But who is right? An all knowing God? Or a mass of cells?
~God bless
Kazrith
April 15, 2007
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science class must suck for you. having those guts churning all the time...
the Southern Americans used the bible to prove how they treated slaves was right.
you never answered my question. do you have the bible read to you?
it is unconditional love eh? right.
sorry. i've ALWAYS been gay. there was no before. and there's not going to be an after. it isnt possible.
hmmm... must hurt them eh? i am not knocking any one out. you think that after you knock them out they are going to listen to you when they wake up? all you just did was prolong his life a few more minutes/hours. that and piss him off.
you are saying hurting people is right. as long as you love them?
"who is right? An all knowing God? Or a mass of cells?" love this question. but i got one of my own
who is actually there? an untouchable, all knowing god? or a mass of cells?
one thing though. you keep insisting i have sinned when, by your deffinition, i already have committed a homosexual act, yet, i havent kissed, dated, had sex, or fallen in love with a man. how have i sinned?
April 16, 2007
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Well, Actually, We aren't talking about the age of the earth, or any form of evolution ATM, not talking about atronomy, etc.. SO My guts don't churn now.
"the Southern Americans used the bible to prove how they treated slaves was right. "
there you go again, using humans (falliable and sinful) to justify your reasonings. If you even laid eyes upon a bible, and studied it's text all together, theny ou would know that the Southern American slave owners were wrong. Plus most slave owners weren't cruel. And fed peeople well. It's just that a few of them were absolutely terrible, and plantation owners as a whole were critisized for what a few of them did.
here are some bible quotes, to enlighten you about biblical slavery.
"Deuteronomy 15:12-15
12 “If your brother, a Hebrew man, or a Hebrew woman, is sold to you and serves you six years, then in the seventh year you shall let him go free from you. 13 And when you send him away free from you, you shall not let him go away empty-handed; 14 you shall supply him liberally from your flock, from your threshing floor, and from your winepress. From what the LORD your God has blessed you with, you shall give to him. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you this thing today.
"
"Ephesians 6:9
9 And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him."
"Colossians 4
1 Masters, give your bondservants what is just and fair, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."
So, the bible doesn't directly say that slavery is wrong. But ill and unrighteous treatement of anybody is wrong.
And I already said I read the bible.
(Quote from Me in post above)
"I read the bible myself, as anyone true christian should. As man is falliable and can give the wrong answers. But God's word is true, and I am only able to find that truth by reading the bible myself."
If you expect people to be sane while they type to you, please don't say stuff that doesn't make sense.
"it is unconditional love eh? right. "
"Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
"John 13:34
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another."
If you want to read about God's love, in a much better written out version, go here
http://www.gotquestions.org/agape-love.html
"sorry. i've ALWAYS been gay. there was no before. and there's not going to be an after. it isnt possible. "
You told me that you became gay when you were older (17) on the chatbox. Are you adding new information just to win an argument? Now are oyu saying you've always been gay? Why should I trust an argument from a deceiver?
"you are saying hurting people is right. as long as you love them?"
I'm saying punishing people is right. For doing something that they should'nt be doing.
"hmmm... must hurt them eh? i am not knocking any one out. you think that after you knock them out they are going to listen to you when they wake up? all you just did was prolong his life a few more minutes/hours. that and piss him off."
I was simply using a similie (or metaphore, I forgot) to helpy ou guys understand. Plus, knocking someone out, might just add a little sense to them.
"who is actually there? an untouchable, all knowing god? or a mass of cells?"
First of all, God is phycologically touchable. second, God is here, I've seen him work in the hearts of many people. But to answer your question, I would have to say, the cells are actually there, were the untouchable God is not there, as there is no untouchable God.
You still havn't answered my question.
"one thing though. you keep insisting i have sinned when, by your deffinition, i already have committed a homosexual act, yet, i havent kissed, dated, had sex, or fallen in love with a man. how have i sinned?"
Well, every man has sinned. You may not have had an actualy sexual interaction with someone else. But you still have lust of the eyes.
(1 john 2:15-16)
"15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."
Note, that world means what comes naturally to sinful people. And that the pride of life pride in yourself that isn't what it should be. Like proclaiming "I did all this without God's help", or "I am God". That would be pride of life. Jus tin case you would bring up an abortion topic here..
And lust of the eyes, goes for anything. Lustfully desiring something, by looking at somethign you shouldn't is considered a sin.
And if you have never fallen in love with a man, how can you be bisexual?
Kazrith
April 16, 2007
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geez, i hope there arent any black people readin this, cause they might be jumping down your throat any minute.
no, you actually havent answered the question. does someone read the bible to you?
every person has lust in their eyes.
if you have never been in love with a woman, how can you be heterosexual?
it is something you know, that you feel in your heart as to be right.
you missed what i said earlier in CB. i said i didnt realize i was Bi until 13-14 (not 17). I knew i wasnt the same as everyone else, it just took a while to figure out what it was.
one question from a different page. you said you have done studies yourself on sexual arousal. how is that so? your 14. unless you are the deciever...
April 23, 2007
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Excuse me?
Let me quote myself again. "I read the bible MYSELF, as anyone true christian should. As man is falliable and can give the wrong answers. But God's word is true, and I am only able to find that truth by reading the bible MYSELF.
Unless you mean I sit down at a bed while my mom read the bible to me. In that case. No. As that wouldn't be reading, it would be listening. And I do better reading.
"every person has lust in their eyes. "
I don't. I have trained myself to no longer do that. It's not good for me.
"geez, i hope there arent any black people readin this, cause they might be jumping down your throat any minute. "
Why? Have I made any racist comments? I infact said antiracist comments. You sound like you equivocate blacks and slavery. You're lucky blacks don't go down your throat. As you equivocate cruel treatment and black people. Blakcs aren't the only slaves. there are many cases were other races have been enslaved. and many cases were slavery isn't race-oriented.
"if you have never been in love with a woman, how can you be heterosexual? "
Well, I have loved a women. But I am heterosexual for having a sexual attraction for the opposite sex, even though I don't use it.
"it is something you know, that you feel in your heart as to be right."
Not just your heart. As the heart is deceitful among all things. But what truely changed your life. and gives you complete fufilling Joy, that is right. But not just that. complete fufilling Joy has no harmful consequenses. And there is just something strange about it, that makes it feel holy.
"you missed what i said earlier in CB. i said i didnt realize i was Bi until 13-14 (not 17). I knew i wasnt the same as everyone else, it just took a while to figure out what it was."
Then you lied on the chatbox. I said that sexual orientations are most changeable around pueberty or something like that. And you were like "I didn't change till I was much older" or something like that.
"one question from a different page. you said you have done studies yourself on sexual arousal. how is that so? your 14. unless you are the deciever..."
Yes I have. A few studies are from my parents. My mother had premerital sex. It was not as fufilling as the sex she has now. (Kinda gross to think about it, but it's true) more are from some of my friends (they are my friends now). Some of them had sex, but were hardly arouse at all. When they decided to follow the bible. And wait till marriage to have sex again. They are amazed. They tell me thease things. =) I've only been a creationist for a few years, but I did know that SOME stuff in the bible had to be right.
Quote from this article
http://www.boundless.org/1999/features/a0000055.html (read the whole thing, it's very intreging)
"A few years ago the Family Research Council surveyed 1,100 people about their sexual satisfaction. In a Washington Post op-ed, FRC’s William Mattox, Jr. took a look at the exciting results. The poll “found that 72 percent of all married ‘traditionalists (those who ‘strongly’ believe out of wedlock sex is wrong) report high sexual satisfaction. This is,” Mattox said, “roughly 31 percentage points higher than the level registered by unmarried ‘non-traditionalists’ (those who have no or only some objection to sex outside of marriage) and 13 percentage points higher than that registered by married non-traditionalists.”"
Kazrith
April 25, 2007
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No i did not say sexuality is most flexable during puberty, if i said anything on this topic it would have been along the lines of this is the time in which you become aware of it.
i like what you said on the heart thing. couldnt agree more. donno what would hurt you (excluding your need to point out sti's)
when you go to church, does the guy/gal read things out of the bible to you?
January 21
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Actually, Iowa is pretty close to allowing gay marriages. Which I don't want because gay people will flood Iowa to get married. Missouri should allow it first -.- That way they all move there. lol
Now, When he DID go to church, and we read the bible in a circle, he would read the verse and then it would be the next person's turn. He never really was on fire for Christ.
Oh and I told you that the studies show that monogamous marriages have the best sex. And I used my parents as a primary source example as proof which backs up the studies.
And is it possible that a gay person doesn't enjoy strait sex because of a nocebo effect they created psychologically makes them turned off my women, or doesn't cause as strong erections because of the nocebo effect?
I herd that those who receive strokes sometimes forget they are smokers. Maybe searching the internet will find that stroke patients turn strait o.O
lol
And I truly recall you saying that sexual orientations are most manipulatable during puberty. But that could just be my imagination now. It's been over half a year, so I can't tell.
Oh and you "finding out" that you were gay doesn't seem to make sense at all. could you please explain what you felt?
Kazrith
January 21
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"finding out"... as apposed to "choosing?"
lol, you are afraid of gay people, how cutei just read this very interesting thing in time magazine on the difference between homosexual and heterosexual relationships (and the 7 year itch). it basically said that the two types of relationships have lots to learn from one another.
the emotions of realizing i was gay? isolation. you think that your the only one around that feels the same why you do. you fear that your parents will toss you out, that your friends will leave you, that you will be beaten up in school for looking anywhere but the floor in the locker room, you become cut yourself away from the world (which can lead to suicide). basically, the first few things you feel is hate. everyone saying "oh, christina's b-day party is going to be so gay. That's so gay." after a few years, that becomes merely annoying instead of thinking its a personal attack on you.
you either only communicate to complete stangers (cause they cant hurt you) or absolute friends (who would never intentionally hurt you).
worst is when you know that a girl likes you and try as hard as you can to feel the same things she feels will keep you up at night crying because you cant be what you really really want to be. Hell i've kissed a girl that i thought i really really liked (appearently only as a best friend). I felt nothing. No thrill, no intisipation, no tingly whatchamacallit that everyone says it is. to me, it felt completely wrong. I realized i had tugged her along in hopes that i would suddenly change, suddenly have all these feelings i get when i am around the guy i like. there is nothing worse than letting someone who loves you and you not returning that same feeling.
Kazrith
January 21
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article refrence.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1704660,00.htmlFebruary 17
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Controlling the Mind has been known to help people recover faster. In fact, it's a major part of holistic remedies. Don't forget about the placebo/nocebo effect.
Kazrith
February 18
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and by imagining girls i would eventually become straight?
sorry, been there, done that, still gay.
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