Was it an Apple tree or a Pear? What about the other tree in Eden as well?
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The friut of that tree does not matter
First we have this wonderful Garden with a tree of Life in it's midst.
The Tree Of Life had 12 different fruits on it each month, throughout the year, for a total of 144 completely different fruits growing on one tree.
Adam and Eve and all their offspring lived in the Garden Of Eden for thousands, possibly millions of years. God does measure time, but time is only a measure and not a curse in the garden era. Nothing aged and nothing died. Time measured and divided, but time had no consequence and never ran out for anyone or anything.
The Tree Of Knowledge Of Good and Evil: This tree was simply any tree God chose. It was not a special tree at all and the fruit contained nothing magical or different from any ordinary fruit tree in the Garden.
Eve and Adam ate the fruit, when each was coaxed by Eve and the Serpent. Immediately after the bite, they felt ashamed. 'They felt ashamed': This was the first time they had ever felt discomfort. They then understood that all sin has an immediate consequence and they hid themselves.
God said, "eat of all the trees of the Garden, but of the tree of G and E, this tree do not eat, or thou wilt surely die." And so it began they began to age once they were thrown out of the midst of the Tree Of Life and were surely headed to a slow death.
This did not make them curious about that tree, because they could not yet be tempted by there own minds or each other.
Eve never could have tempted Adam to follow her in that first bite, until she took that bite herself first.
The tree was a simple tree of no significance, but Adam and Eves action to disobey God was the true entrance of the 'sin experience'.
Voted for by
frndofyaweh.
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It had already been written
Hello Dear Friend Frndofyaweh! How do you do kind friend???
Further, it is to iform you that it is our belief that Almighty God had already written the fate of all creatures from beginning to the end. So it is therefore neither Jews nor Muslims believe in the authenticity of the"Original Sin". No one can be responsible for the misdeeds of others. Similarly, no one can be sacrificed for the wrong-doings of the children of Adam and Eve. The Holy Scripture declares vehemently that no one will bear the burden of the other. Tasting the fruit of the forbidden tree was the mistake of Adam and Eve; but it had been decided far before their birth that man would live on the earth till the Day of Resurrection.
Thank you!
Voted for by
Mujtaba H Zaidi.
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dollar
April 4, 2007
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I don't...
recall the bible saying adam and eve had any children before they sinned...frndofyaweh
April 4, 2007
One verse in the Bible can have several meanings or allowances or regulations, but none of the meanings when practiced will conflict with any of the others. VERY deep messages indeed.
As a matter of fact and a study I read about long ago by college students. A super computer could not replicate a new example with diverse messages in it, like the Bible does without crashing. The computer would lock up when creating the first sentence. This also requires the language to be used in the experiment to have a numerical equation for every letter, such as Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic do have. They also attempted to get volunteers to make up there own parables in sentences and nothing coherent could be created by anyone.
Our Bibles original texts were so well memorized that every word had to be precisely passed down. Once written it was written in only these numbered languages with numerical values in their alphabets.
Each sentence must end with a total equation of a perfect numeral as it's answer. All sentences in the Bible have this, but no other books on Earth have been found that can do it.
The students tried it with the Quaran and Mormon Bible as well and found no parables or perfect formulas were present, not even one by accident.
perfect numbers are 6 28 496 8128 etc. The numbered alphabet you use must create a mathmatic formula with an answer of perfect numbers only, but the sentence must still make perfect sense and have several meanings in it.
Go ahead and make one yourself and try the formula, if you know your trigonometry that is. No one has been able to do it yet, But yet, every sentence in the Bible has it perfectly.
Applehead
April 4, 2007
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mudgod
April 4, 2007
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Applehead
April 5, 2007
mudgod
April 5, 2007
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dollar
April 5, 2007
So just because Adam and Eve sinned all of their children must also suffer for their parents sin and never be given a chance to be in the garden with God as adam and eve were?
April 6, 2007
dollar
April 6, 2007
We couldn't of. We are all born pure as when Adam and Eve were pure when they were first created and they had a chance in the garden of eden. Well here we are the decendents of Adam and Eve. We are born pure and thus should have the same opportunity as Adam and Eve had in the garden. If we do whats "good" God could keep us in the garden but if we are "bad" he could kick us out. Why must all of adam and eve's decendents be damned out of the garden of eden just because adam and eve messed up?
April 6, 2007
Jkin'
Plus, I can't answer that, as that is a question the would make me try to think as an infinite being. But my guess is that having perfect people in a sin cursed world would completely defeat the purpose of Jesus christ. If we aren't effected by other people's choices, then Jesus's death couldn't save us. As we wouldn't be effected by anyone else's choices.
dollar
April 6, 2007
No but really. Perfect people could be in this world under the protection of God in the garden of eden and the people who do "wrong" and get kicked out of the garden suffer. Then the whole deal of Jesus comming to earth would be like a second chance for thoes who were kicked out of the garden.
But wait that would mean the only way to get to heaven is to 'sin' in the garden of eden to get kicked out because people who live in the garden live forever aparently...meaning you must get kicked out of the garden and die...if that makes any sense...
um yes definanty sticking to the genes idea lol
April 6, 2007
You make up stories pretty good though. But there is a problem. Eden would be completely submerged in a global flood (atlantis perhaps?)
Plus the bible says "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned"(Romans 5:12)
We all sin because we're sinners. We are sinners because we are effected by adam and eve's sin. And because we sin, that is why we have death.
Adam and eve cursed the entire world. Not just them. And if God weren't to curse the entire world for adam and eve's sin, then there would be pain and suffering. Without pain and suffering, Adam and eve wouldn't be punished. And then ther eouwld be nothing happening. Other than adam and eve eventually dieing.
Get my point?
dollar
April 6, 2007
"And if God weren't to curse the entire world for adam and eve's sin, then there would be pain and suffering."
If God didn't curse the entire world there would be pain and suffering?
"Without pain and suffering, Adam and eve wouldn't be punished."
uhh yes.
"We all sin because we're sinners. We are sinners because we are effected by adam and eve's sin. And because we sin, that is why we have death."
We are sinners just because we have some of adam and eve's blood in us?
So you can rightfully call your unborn child a sinner?
April 7, 2007
So the baby sins because he has a sinful nature, even though he hasn't been able to sin yet. The baby has a sinful nature because Adam and Eve curse the world to have a sinful nature. And God had to curse the entire world for adam's wrong because if people weren't effected by other people's decisions, then Jesus's death and resurection wouldn't effect anyone but Jesus.
It's not hard to comprehend. A baby is a sinner even though he hasn't sinned yet.
April 23, 2007
What is more worst that altering the entire world to suite the defective human that recalling back all defective human. God cursed the ground to produce for the defective human. Now we are enjoying every fruit from the ground is this a curse?
.
April 23, 2007
ROmans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
That includes babies. But they are at an age witch they cannot make a choice between jesus or their sin. So if they die, they will go to heaven.
April 24, 2007
Eating from the tree of Knowledge of G&E has not altered the gene and as such the nature of human was not altered. Human destined to sin as they grow is real as the unbalanced usage of the knowledge is not made known to them.
A child will not be capable to fulfill any of the Ten Commandments and as such how could they be sinful.
In born sin could possibly be true but difficult to comprehend. But moral sin is clear cut. All will sin and fall short of the glory of God. No human in this world is willing to display their thought into visual for all to see as this will expose the element of evil in their mind.
May 1, 2007
For the defective comment, some verses will contradict that thinking.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
God made man in His likeness. When God says "our likeness" do you really think that means defective? Is God's likeness defective?
Genesis 1:31
Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Would defective humans be "very good" as described here?
Now, let's continue this.
"genesis 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"
This means genesis 2 is referring to genesis 1. And that this is the history or and in depth version of what God did during the 6 days in Genesis 1.
"Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
This should already be considered the same person as in genesis 1. But some people don't like to believe that. SO I'll have to use the verse before that to validate this thinking.
If genesis 2 is an in depth view of genesis 1, then the man formed in genesis 2:7, must be the same man formed in genesis 1:26. (shown above)
But there is more to validate it.
"genesis 2:8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed."
This is the verse right after the Genesis 2:7, obviously indicating the same person.
"Genesis 2:15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it."
This is the same man referred in genesis 2:7-8. Verses later will validate this.
"Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”"
So Adam was alone, or without a woman partner. That means there were no other humans before (as to get other humans, you must have women)
"Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. "
So we come to thease conclusions.
1)Eve was the mother of all living. This is short to simply mean all humans. That means there were no other humans on planet earth.
2)Adam and Eve had to be the people in Genesis 1, or else is would conflict with scripture.
3) Because Adam and Eve were the people in Genesis 1, that means they had to be "in the likeness of God", and "very Good". That means they were NOT defective at creation.
Now Not only that, but God did indeed curse human kind.
"Genesis3:16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.” "
God is obviously cursing Eve for what she had done.
"Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.” "
God is obviously Cursing Adam, unless you believe Adam was going to die in the first place. But that conflicts. Because God didn't create death. Because death isn't "very good". And people created in the likeness of God would not be succumbable. But here are some verses to validate it.
"Genesis2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”"
So, obviously, Adam and Eve couldn't die. Unless they took of the fruit.
So we conclude
1)Adam and Eve couldn't die before they ate the fruit.
2)God cursed adam and Eve to death. And to pain and suffering, not JUST the land around them.
And about the fruit altering sinful nature.....
It is certain that eating the fruit has given humen a sinful nature.
Is Man was made "in the likeness of God", and was "very good", then they wouldn't have a sinful nature. And in fact, If they DID have a sinful Nature, God would have given them a whole list of rules and regulations they must follow. Because If they were sinful, they would need a whole list of rules, so that they could choose between their sinful nature of God. But no, God only gave them one rule. DON'T eat from the tree. That indicates that Adam and Eve really didn't have any evil or sinful carnal nature before they ate from the tree with the knowledge of Good and evil...
Get my drift?
May 3, 2007
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Human became defective only after consuming from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Prior to that they are perfect creation as mentioned in the bible. (Unless you still think they are perfect. Bear in mind that God recalled all except one family)
Example of defective; can we love our neighbor, can we allow stranger into our house, can we give freely, can we love our enemy, etc… we can’t do it freely, is like mental block. We only know what is good for us and how to avoid bad thing from happening to us.
The notion that Eve gave birth during the pre knowledge time was; God punish her to go through a great deal of pain during labour. If she has not given birth before how could she know that the pain is multiplied?
Genesis Chapter 2 quoted is in perfect order; however when we jump to Chapter 3 probably hundred years, thousand years, millions years or even billion years has past. How certain are we that a few days or few weeks or few months after creation then the serpent start to attack God’s creation?
Adam and Eve begin to be fruitful and multiply during the pre knowledge period. Only after post knowledge period did Adam gives names to his children and they are cain, abel and seth.
May 5, 2007
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Genesis Chapter 2 is identical to Chapter 1 but in different perspectives. (Could be one from Adam’s perspective and another from Eve’s perspective?) In short Chapter 2 ended on the 6th day of creation and thus in conclusion Adam and Eve were the only human on earth then.
However in chapter 3, it jumps straight to serpent rebellion. Is a massive act of betrayal against the Creator and to challenge God and mess up God’s creation and plan the serpent must have acquired enough power and courage to act. The time taken for an angle to acquire the trust of God and the necessary power must have taken quite a while.
While the serpent was busy with its own agenda, Adam and Eve were fruitful and multiplying for millions or billions of years. God’s plan was going find and the nurturing was in progress as planned. As the care-taker of the garden Adam and Eve eternal life was preserved by the tree of life. (A&E children may not live in the Garden and whether they have the opportunity to partake from the tree of life is still under research)
Eve knows no pain in her entire life until the fall; God was extremely disappointed with her because after all the long nurturing she still falls for a simple trick. God did not utter any “curse” on her but merely multiply the pain during birth.
Adam on the other hand remembered God’s direct warning [Eve receive God’s warning through Adam, because of second hand info, her version to serpent differs unintentionally] and fully accepted the consequences. God’s need not curse Adam but merely remind him of the early warning and explain to him the death process.
The curse in Genesis 3:19 stated by you are not relevant as the warning was already in 2:17 and moreover God did not use the word “curse” against Adam as it was used against the serpent, livestock, animal and the ground.
What make you judge death is bad? Did the bible mention that god did not create death? Adam and Eve eternal life was preserve by the tree of life. Without it they will surely die.
Do not understand your drift; “And about the fruit altering sinful nature.....
and the whole lot”
Human understanding of the knowledge of good and evil is too shallow (probable nursery standard only). Please be mindful that the earth was supposed to last us eternity but after 6000 years or a bit more after acquisition of the knowledge the earth is choking to its death. You think this is inborn? I think our knowledge is too inclined towards evil. I am not saying evil is 100% bad but we are just not capable of balancing it.
frndofyaweh
April 5, 2007
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The trees
well Applehead, as I tried to explain, but not too well, the tree was not good and evil. It was just a tree. God could ahve chose any tree and said don't eat that one. It was the principle of disobeying that was the revealing of sin. Sin means; to harm, to hurt or damage.Adam and Eve could not be tempted. Temptation was impossible before the knowledge was gained by them. The serpent could not tempt Eve, but he could decieve her. She in turn could not tempt Adam. She had to lie to him in turn, because she felt alone in her shame. The first sins were snowballing out of control within minutes.
The tree of life is real though and will return, along with the Garden properties.
Remember God took seven days to create the universe. Adam and Eve took that away.
A day is 1000 years in Heaven.
the garden has not been here for 6000 years and we are dawning on the seventh day and will be back in the same heavenly Garden soon.
DOLLAR:
God did not forget about us, but instead is recreating the Garden around us. He began to put things right, right away, directly after A&E changed it. Yes He could have done it instantly, but that would have revealed God to us by force. Remember that we are the children of God and He loves us. We are in the way of the RE-creation, so God must do it all over again one day at a time. (Parable)Take things one day at a time as God is also doing.
Look carefully at each millenium in the past 6000(6 days) years and you see a step takes place that changes Earth and humanity in the right direction. Jesus was born with a new millenium as well and his sacrifice brought us closer to undoing the curse. The flood of Noah, most likely occurred on the eve of a new millenium as well.
right near the year 2000 AD we had a comet strike Jupiter.
Jupiter is the sixth heavenly body from our solar systems center. it was hit by 21 pieces of S.L.-9 comet.
21 judgements will be released upon the Earth in the last day. (The book of Revelation)
Comets always come to announce judgements or a great change in history. (Old Testament)
Jupiter: the principal god of Roman mythology and a false god. Or a god that is all hot air.
Jupiter is a gas giant. A ball of hot air.
Again, I would like to point out; this is something I can see and no one else saw it that I know of.
I do not have to think about it either. It just comes to me. The Bible calls them revelations. Kind of a smack in the brain and there is the knowledge revealed.
More on Spiritual Gifts coming soon.
April 23, 2007
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Human eventually will acquire the knowledge at the ripe time after completion of God's nurturing. The serpent rebelled against God and decided the best way to go against God is to alter and mess up God's creation and plan.
Eve is too pure and trusted all fellow created creatures without a shadow of doubt. The serpent succeeded in its plan but miscalculated God’s reaction that is altering the entire created surrounding to cater for human quicken knowledge acquisition. The pre knowledge world is totally different from the post knowledge world.
During the pre knowledge time all happening need not be recorded as time is of no essence as everything is suppose to live eternally just like in heaven where we will not record anything but just enjoy and amaze in God’s glory. God’s nurturing also include the teaching to understand the usage of knowledge of good and evil and way to balance it. (What we deem good may not always be good and what we deem bad may not always be bad).
Human immediate reaction after the sudden acquisition of the knowledge is fear. Their trusted friends the created creature looks fierce and different from them. The garden itself is a treat to them with all the huge trees, all kinds of sound and particularly during the night. They suddenly realize that they are fully expose to everything surrounding them and really feel the nakedness in them.
During post knowledge time the whole world is changed and human will die and as such human started to create record to remember event that happen so that it can be pass down for their descendent to know.
Viridain
May 17, 2007
Didn't . . . ?
Didn't Adam and Eve have all males? I dunno where that came from, justa question... :|mudgod
March 19
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TeChNoWC
July 18, 2007
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March 19
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