in any other religion, homosexuality is seen a not only proper, but natural. and some of them go as far as saying that such relationships were better than those of the heterosexuals. so my question is, why is this such a big detail with the abrahamic religions? and please no saying "because god says it is wrong, immoral ect ect" i want opinions of people, not biblical quotes!
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Shared law11% Voted for by TheErinator, Kazrith, tmcw, cosmosis.
I think a big part of why it’s condemned in all the “Abrahamic” religions is because they all share the Old Testament as part of their scripture, and some of the verses that people cite as condemning homosexuality come from the Old Testament, especially Leviticus. So all three religions are essentially giving the same reason and citing the same source as to why it’s wrong.
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this is worth debating11% Voted for by painhelpsusfeel, Kazrith, humptydumptyheart, cosmosis.
How can one person of hetero orientation, even attempt to judge a male or female of homo orientation? How can you believe it to be wrong, if you have never experienced it? Why would you call it lust, instead of unconditional love? Also if being hetero-sexual is the proper and correct under god; why is god letting the worlds population grow out of control? What Kazrith, has written about other religions is almost always true. So why hate homo-sexual’s if no harm is being done?
If you are of an Abrahamic religion, and wish to debate, please supply me with a valid passage of scripture, that allows me to see gods opinion on homo-sexuality.
Because I have yet to come across that passage in the bible (Not an attack, im still working through the giant book!).
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Definitely
I will do much better for you. I will not supply a verse in the Bible, cause I know you won't be able to read between the lines. The love between one man and another can be, though it will be one of fatherly or brotherly love. As I can see on what you speak I realise that your philosophy is only paper thin. The love of a homo-sexual is of disgusting nature. In life for every action there is a reaction as for every wrong a right and every positive a negative. The reason for being homo-sexuality is that you may be scared of life and the obstacles it brings to ground. That also being the reason for many divorces and separations. We tend to rely on our own strength instead of relying in the love of God. Love is not boastful, not self indulged and definitely not scared of life. Sometimes you need to retire from the fantasy and return to reality. Reply if you dare... -
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right. so in your reasoning, "homo-sexuality" or the proper way to spell it being homosexuality is because you are scared of life and the obsticles it brings? right. thats it. you it the head of the nail. well the wrong nail of course. where did you find your information? is that soming proven or is it your oppinion? well, just to let you know, why would a straight person go through all the "obsticles" that a homosexual would go through? i think not, if you ask a homosexual you will find out that they come through more obsticles than a heterosexual does. Not to mention that a lot of them love life, not fear it. your reasoning is not sound.
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Thanks for replying Kasrith
Tell me your reason for being in lust with another man and if it is love what is it based on. I say this because in homosexuality I believe there can be no love. You live life trying to dress everything up, disguising your intentions to better only yourself. Do you know how it feels to stand in the line of fire for somebody else. This is what Jesus has done for all those that may stumble. You have not felt any pain if the pain of other hurt more than that of your own. PS- Please no famous quotes, I heard them all!! -
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first, if you want me to respect your comments, atleast spell my name right. it is Kazrith with a Z not an S. and second. "you have not felt any pain if the pain of other hurt more than that of your own." that there makes no sense. you may want to use some grammar or just explain to me what you mean so i can make an appropriate relpy to your post.
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just out of curiousity, have you ever been in love with someone you just met? if you have, that is not love, but loves partner, LUST. oh yes, LUST. now lust can change to love over time but i will tell you this, love almost always starts from lust. why do you believe that bonosexuals cannot love? -because god says sleeping with one is wrong? -because you think that you need to be better than them? -because they cannot marry? -or because when you were little, your parents and everyone you knew hated them?
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so when two men/women perform it8% Voted for by frndofyaweh, Mujtaba H Zaidi, Dancing Doll.
they are mocking God in a form of false worship or negative energy. Evil gains power from this energy and uses it against us.
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ok, just to make a point here, but these other religions are older than abrahamic religions, so how are they mocking a younger religion when they didnt even know it would exist?
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The key word:religion
Belief in God may be billions of years old. The Garden of Eden existed without the curse of time. Days passed and nights came. No seasons of change no death or decay. Time irrelevant. Adam and Eve ate the fruit, but when is a mystery. Genesis may be thousands(possibly 6,000 years old). Then the seventh day comes, the last 1000 years. -
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but that cant be true, your saying that we were here and then we weren't or are you saying that we came straight from eden and then forgot everything? sounds iffy.
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If man lived in Eden and then was taken away from there by God, perhaps God did not want man to have memories of Eden. That's just a simple thought, though.. hm.
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Abrahamic religions are the OLDEST
Abrahamic religions were born with the birth of Adam and Eve. -
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really?
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'Abrahamic religions were born with the birth of Adam and Eve.' As opposed to the birth of Abraham? And the view that Eden lasted for billions of years without death or decay is problematic, as Adam+Eve as full man and woman would have been capable and desirious of sex, and capable of procreation, but no child is born in the garden. Most Jewish and Christian sources think the Fall was very early.
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Because the spirit is seperated from it opposite energy8% Voted for by frndofyaweh, Mujtaba H Zaidi, Dancing Doll.
True love has it’s rewards. Making love is a form of celebration of life and a form of worship. Becoming one flesh with another, only works with the two being rejoined. If you love the same sex it is a lust based love and not unconditional love; Contrary to belief.
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is this a fact or do you just know it to be so?
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man, reading this the second time makes me furious. how can you say same sex is a _lust_ based sex? have you _ever_ loved? what makes you think that same sex love cannot be unconditional? how many people do you know as gay/lesbian/bi/trans.... do you realize that 50% of todays marriages end in divorce? doesnt sound too _unconditional_ to me, almost, like lust, wouldnt you say? if you have never felt the love someone of the opposite and the same sex can give you, you are in no place to denounce it*.*
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homo is based on lust and sex, but true love is somewhat spiritual too, and no spirituality at all in homo relation
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how do you know this??
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yes
in homo, main drive is sex drive;and in hetro, there is something more than physical relationship;in hetro, there is creation and productivity in the form of next generation,which can never be in homo -
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yes yes yes, everyone says that, but do you have any hard evidance to this? i have some against it and will tell you it if you have proof of yours. go on, tell us...
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can you prove that gay relationships are based on lust only. you keep saying it but never give any facts or examples. IF gay love was lust based then why do so many gay people want to be able to marry and have long term relationships? obviously if it was lust based they wouldn't want to get married but since they do it ISNT lust based. also you said that since heterosexual relationships result in procreation it must be love. then what about infertile straight couples? they can't have children so does that mean that their relationship is based on lust. what about old people? they can't have children but their relationship is most likely not lust based. your logic is very flawed. if you come up with a fact or example of how gay love is always lust based then show it to us
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You wrong!!!
Human sperms and shit don't give babies Kazrith... -
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ya, whats your point?
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Go Kazrith!
I'm with you all the way Kazrith! It is stupid to say that homosexuality is based on lust! Hello! What does that make heterosexuals out to be? Their relationships can very well be based on lust too! Why can't homosexuals be viewed as everyone else? They're just like us and I bet all those people who think homosexuality is wrong have no clue what homosexuals go through. Everyone is different and our country is about equality! What ever happened to that concept? It seems to have disappeared.... -
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to enira
finally someone in this post besides kazrith has a brain. lol :)
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about equality yes but,...
who said sexual fetishes were a lifestyle??? I bet every gay person has one thing in common with sexual fetishists; they began to feel the difference in themselves before the age 5. Same with a person who cannot get excited by the opposit sex or perform sexually without the fetish stimulous.----- Example: an adult baby fetish; the fetish keeps the individual unintersted in sex unless the fetish is present in some fashion. The subject will spend their lives with this issue as a nessecity to sexual relations. -
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fetish -It is sexual arousal through the use of objects or affection to parts of the body, such as fingers, feet, leather, and etc. now, how does homosexuality relate to this in any way whatsoever? also a fetish is an obsetion with the things just listed above, and since gays are no more likely to be obsessed with sex then straights, it is NOT and i repeat NOT a fetish
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more...
studies have shown this to be true: Homosexual males all have two things in common. 1. They have a lack of fatherly guidance somewhere between age 1 month and age 5 years. 2. they are repulsed by heterosexual interaction and find it nessecary to bond sexually with same genders.----- Adult Baby Syndromers, have 2 things in common. 1. They show a lack of motherly guidance between the ages 1 month and age 5 years. 2. They are repulsed by heterosexual interaction and find it nessecary to become a baby again, in order to bond sexually to their partner. -
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what you said made absolutely no sense "they are repulsed by heterosexual interaction and find it nessecary to bond sexually with same gendes" that statement is completely false. the MAJORITY of the people gay people hang out with are STRAIGHT including their classmates, co-workers, friends and parents and they are NOT repulsed at it either. infact most gay people never get a chance to meet another gay person until they come out. You really need to get your facts straight also a fetish is an attraction to an inadimate object or a non-sexual part of a persons body like a foot or someones ear. now how does homosexuality relate to a fetish in any way since it obviously does not fit the discription of a fetish. also just because they "feel" different before age five doesn't make it a fetish. IF homosexuality developes within the first five years of life then so does heterosexuality and bisexuality. RESEARCH has shown that ALL sexual orientation is either inborn or genetically determined, that is why if you take two identical twins and raise them in two completely different places (lets say china and france) there is a 60% chance that both will have the same sexual orientation. that is VERY high. Also you say that homosexuality derives from a lack of a father figure. that is bs. so does that mean that heterosexuality is caused by lack of a parental figure from the opposite sex? or what about bisexual people? if a guy is bi does that mean that his dad was only there for half the time and then went away for the other half? i don't think so. also i have friends who are my neighbors their father left them when one of them was 6, the other was 1 and the other was only a few months old. now 14 years later they are ALL straight, the oldest is in a long term relationship and has had sex with a girl already, the middle is the biggest player you will ever meet and the youngest is almost like his older, middle brother. they are not closeted homosexuals either. so if your logic was correct. all three of them should be gay, but they're not which shows that your logic is flawed.
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even more...
all fetishes develop during the first 5 years of life and so does homosexuality. That is why I have heard it said; "I have felt this way ever since I can remember." or " I must have been born like this."----- all fetishes are decided within the beginnings of life. we are NOT born with a sexual preference or a personality. I helped develop my daughters personalities and I can actually pinpoint my actions, that were the catalyst in both cases. -
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what were those actions and how do you know for a fact that your daughters wouldn't have turned out the same way whether or not those "actions" happened or not. so please would you care to explain what exactly you did and what was the result of those actions cause i and a lot of other people here would really like to know
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being gay is not a fetish and it is just a state of being, it is an attraction to people of the same sex. and gay people arent repulsed at interacting with straight people, this is a stupid comment. the majority of people gay people hang out with are straight. the people gay people work with are straight. and saying that it is decided early in life implies that it can change. it cant despite what many exgay groups seem to say. why do you think that so many gay teens commit suicide, cause they cant change. duh. also alot of evedence is pointing to the fact that being gay is inborn and/or genetic. these tests involve differences with the hypothalamus(excuse my spelling), human pheromones, and genetic altering done in fruit flies that made female fruit flies into lesbians and horny straight male flies into passive gay ones. u should really get ur facts straight before u make stupid assumptions on people.
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I would have to agree with cosmosis (by the way you did spell hypothalamus right) and to tell you the truth, most people say they have felt that way all their livds are exagerating! they just mean that when they started having sexual desires it wasnt for the opposite sex, and as a bisexual i can attest to this due to the fact that i had a heterosexual desire first and a homosexual one after.
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Sadum and Gamora8% Voted for by Mujtaba H Zaidi, Lstjed, Emotions.
Becausue the past cutlures the Romans, The Babalonians, and othe Great Civiliazations Have all proven that when they started to Allow HomoSexual relationships within the civilization that has always led to their down fall. Saudum and Gamora. Allowed Homosexuals to live within there walls. The city was destroyed of the face of the earth by God with a piller of fire. So when a country allows this type of relationship, The country starts on a downward spiral to distruction!
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how many times do i have to tell people that that was not the only crime committed?
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that is the reason for its downfall.. Yes there were other crimes but if they had not instituded this relationship status they could have fixed the civilazation but they chose to allows homosexuals to marry thus destroying there culture causing there downfall
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if you think that homosexuality brought down the fall of those cities because the cities didnt fix it, well, i just can't see it. now if it was murderers and rapists and thieves ect i can, but homosexuality being the only one? that i doubt.
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if i think... naw i havent done that in awhile but you cant prove what i say is wrong or right.. Niether. can i i am just stateing that its a Major Player in the downfalls of the civilazation
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so love for another brings down civilizations? is that what your saying? or the hate of one who hates someone loving another?
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no if a man loves a man then that brings down the civilization
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alright, now tell me how. i want to know how you think that it will bring down the civilization.
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I dont necessarily agree with d1darkmasr, but if you follow Kant's categorical imperative then it pretty much by definition would bring down the civilization.
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Whos Kant? Can u let me know ive seen that name around Thnks
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Cant remember exactly when he lived (1700s and 1800s i think), but Immanuel Kant was a philosopher who kind of started his own branch of moral theory. His big thing was taking a logical approach to ethics. The underlying idea behind the categorical imperative was that you could tell if an action was "good" or not by making it universal, in other words considering what that action would mean if everyone did it. So I suppose if we were to consider the categorical imperative in reference to Sodom and Gomorrah then I would have to agree with you, as if everyone in a society were gay that would almost have to mean the death of a nation. Im not Kant expert though, so not entirely sure what he would say here.
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thats a pointless agruement. if everyone was the same, lets see, if we have everyone heterosexual and having oh, lets say 2 babies in their lifetime. well eventually all these people will eventually grow and eat and kill their nation by not having enough food to eat or by infecting everyone with desease. either way, everything ends.
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What if everyone in the world decided to stop drinking Pepsi and only drink Coke from now on. Pepsi would go bankrupt, thousands upon thousands of people would be out of jobs, Coke would no longer have a great need to make competitive prices. Therefore, it is wrong to decide to have Coke instead of Pepsi.
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good point
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Would not coke then have lots of job openings due to an increase in business? In America we have laws against monopolies. Soft drink choice cannot really be validly viewed here as a moral decision. As for your criticism Kazrith, the world food supply is big enough to feed everyone on the planet four times over. O and if you hadnt noticed, sometimes in life people die young.... do any causes of death besides hunger figure in to your hypothetical societ? Some nations and classes of people have plenty of trouble surviving for a multitude of other reasons. What is truly wrong w/ your argument, however, is that it is not the case that "everything ends". Following Kant's categorical imperative, in a completely homosexual society, the race would die out in one generation. However, in a completely heterosexual society, if I am to be so generous as to suppose that disease and starvation inevitably become terrible problems, then SOME would die but not all. In the first case the race dies out whereas in the latter case SOME die (maybe), but certainly not all and stability can be regained.
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oh, did i not include murders, jihads, accedental deaths, disease, nature, and all the other misfortunes that befall humans in their lifetimes? sorry, you made yours so simple i thought i could simplify mine too. sorry about that, i guess i have to be a little smarter then. alright, i can do that if you want. with the science we have now, having only homosexuals would not really matter. artifical insemenation would take over the fact that sex only makes children. and i am sure that if they did not want to do that that two gay guys that wanted a child and two lesbien women who are friends and wanted to have children i am almost positive that they could do something there to produce offspring. so they wouldnt die off in one generation if you really think about it.
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well certainly not if you consider those alternatives, but I thought we were speaking of a society of only homosexual acts..... but this is all somewhat irrelevant as I was merely putting forth Kant's theory. But I guess this always has to be about competition for you eh Kazrith? As I mentioned on a post I made right before I went on vacation I am pretty much done with this site (maybe not but I'd like to be). If you would like to debate me in a more straightforward manner my email is dskeezy@hotmail.com and my AIM sn is dskeezy6. That goes for you as well Scrap, although I appreciate your debating style on here.... you seem to be an honest debater.
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I see choice of beverage every bit as much of a moral issue as "choice" of sexuality.
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Existentialist Theist...why do you think it is 'good' for the world to continue? Ive got to disagree with Kants theory there and say that in this case goodness is being mistaken for the need to survive. I personally think there are more evil and self destructive people in the world than good and we as a species do not deserve to live on. Most people want to survive and make themselves happy and there are few good people in the world. What do you think?
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Well to live up to my name as an existentialist, I would reply in part that while some people "may not deserve to live" (although this is difficult to assert), none of us chose to live. We were thrust into this world without our choosing so your point really becomes not that we do not deserve to live, but that we deserve to die as a species and this I must flatly reject. I dont necessarily agree with Kant's theory either I suppose I was just trying to play devil's advocate just a bit. Judging whether or not there are more evil and self-destructive than good people in the world is an extremely speculative conclusion. I like to err on the side of caution in such judgments, as I would prefer letting a guilty man go to killing an innocent man any day of the week. I think it is blasphemous (and no I dont just mean in the Judeo-Christian sense) to treat the human race as a nearly amorphous singular being. Those who are good enough deserve to live on and I dont know if everybody else dying would really please those few good people. Further, unless you are a nihilist, you must believe that life has some sort of intrinsic value and that you therefore have some destiny, have some string of choices to live, some test to pass or some experiment to carry out. I myself am not a nihilist and therefore believe that each individual has some sort of "duty" to fulfill in life and personal discovery/individual choice is the way to self-perfection/fulfillment of one's "duty". As a final point, moral goodness doesnt really have much meaning for me when you take it out of a human context (seeing as I am human), so what sort of abstract good outside of humanity do you have in mind, unless it is God of course.
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and by the way Kant didnt say this specific thing about a homosexual society...the categorical imperative was merely the basis of his ethics.... that an action can be judged if you universalize it. Lying for example is wrong because if everyone lied the world would be chaotic, nothing would make sense and no one would trust anyone else.
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I still see flaws in Kant's theory. Always have. I think it's a genius idea that can work in many instances, but at the same time is just impractical. What if everyone decided to be a mechanic? A potato farmer? A radical thinking philosopher that scoped out a nearby steeple all the time?
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yea i agree that the categorical imperative isnt flawless but Kant probably would not deem such things as "moral choices". Havent really read his criteria for what makes a choice a moral one. I know, however, that it is not intended to apply to choices that are not so specific, but rather very abstract and general ideas, such as truth telling.
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alright thanks. I was just wondering who he was :-p
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Abrahamic Religions are Heavenly Religions8% Voted for by Mujtaba H Zaidi, Shamaila Khalid, Dancing Doll.
Islam, Christianity and Judaism are heavenly religions with so many similarities including belief in the Oneness of the Creator, and belief in the holy Prophets, holy Angels, holy Books and in the Day of Resurrection, along with doing good and abstaining from debauchery, fornication and other malpractices…Circumcision is also observed among these three religions. Further,these three religions know how the people of the Prophet Lot were punished on practicing homosexuality, and their city i.e. Sodom had been perished away forever. Moreover, the Heavenly religions strongly believe in nobility, chastity and modesty; whereas Earthly religions including Hinduism etc have never been gifted by the Holy Inspiration/Revelation, so their beliefs are based on merely superstitions and wrong practices….!!!!!!
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wow, now thats biased
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Is it?
Are you sure it is Bias? You can only answer correctly, if you have studied it thouroughly. Maybe these above have found no other alternative. -
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who ever told you that you can only answer correctly? you answer on what you learn. i _learned_ christianity but deny it for reasons i have found for myself. and to say that other religions are not holy is biased. oh, and there are many different alternatives. if we were brought up to learn all the religions we would be able to except other thoughts. to be brought up in a singular religion will aways create biased oppinions.
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You mean grammatics, right?
You said: " I learned Christianity..." I am saying, those who find the true and only path have looked at grammatics of the Bible intimately. They will tell you about their only alternative. It is based on Love and joy relationship, they must have it. I am talking about true relationship with the Father and the way He shows Himself to us. -
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ah, so you do agree, religion is biased, for a minute there i thought differently
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Correctness is wisdom
Council is Wisdom. -
Biased??
Kazrith, u wrote urself "in Abrahamic Religions"..And that was the first point of ur own biased views. Secondly, homo is quite unnatural and against the true message of pure love -
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May 10, 2005
Kazrith
May 10, 2005
May 19, 2005
Kazrith
May 19, 2005
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May 15, 2005
Kazrith
May 15, 2005
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Kazrith
May 18, 2005
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frndofyaweh
May 19, 2005
Kazrith, you are really saying...
That Abrahamic based faiths are not only unique, but very distinct. That is one of the mathmatical keys to finding the true life faith: It must be unique unto itself, above all other beliefs.-----You are actually validating Christianity, IMHO.Kazrith
May 20, 2005
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June 18, 2005
O.K> Kazrith
Actually, homo is popular in each and every socity, and almost all societies exercise it, yet it is one of the worst possible crimes being committed on the face of earth, according to the Abrahamic Religions.Kazrith
June 18, 2005
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