There are 4 choices, 5 votes for Mary O's debate

Time to pray for miracles

Pope John Paul II, I believe to be a saint.

• Right after the death of a Saint is the best time to request miracles

  Pope John Paul II, I believe to be a saint. Historically, the best time to request a miracle is just after the death of one believed to be a Saint.

  Now’s the time to request the intercession of Pope John Paul II to interceed, along with all the angels and Saints in Heaven, to the Lord our God for miracles in need.

  The church will required a number of documented miracles in order to begin the process of Beatification and then Canonization of our Pope.

  Just a heads up.

  40%  Voted for by Mary O, ohsweetie2788.

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  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 7, 2005
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    You scare me.

    I don't need Pope to get a miracle, EVER! I am the intersessor to Jesus, according to Gods Word. Jesus intersesses for me.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 7, 2005
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    Intersession is a spiritual gift

    given by God through the Spirit to some and they do not have to be a pope or Priest either.
  • Mary O
    April 7, 2005
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    Well your right, frndofyaweh, but I'll just share something I've already written since it relates just to show where I'm comming from. I mean to have no religious battles. We often pray in numbers for the same results; that many voices will better our chance for prayer requests to be met. ~~~ We pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary, mother of God, not as a God figure, but as a good intercessor for our part, to interceed our prayer requests. I suppose you might say one very humbly steps aside to allow one who is known to be very close to God, of a saintly manner so to speak, to do our beckoning as well for our part. In another way I might relate a child going to his or her mother first to win their Father’s approval. All in all its a humble gesture. I believe God is pleased with the Popes service to His people of the world. The Pope has the love of God about Him and wishes for the salvation of all souls as well and could speak well to the Father for our behalf. However, I might add, I wouldn’t be so inclined to pray for a person’s healing if I knew the healing would contribute ultimately to the lose of their soul. Hence, reasons I assume why not all are cured. In the end God knows what He is doing for our better and good. We certainly don’t need to ask a favor of God by going through a saint but it doesn’t hurt either. As a husband loves his wife, he’d do just about anything for her, even if her request is for favor of their child. Where child might be refused going directly to the father, the mother has a way of soften the father's heart. It doesn’t take long for a child to realized this barganing power, yes? At the same time, where history relates many successful prayers answered through the intercession of saints, word gets around and we realize as well the barganing power. This is why I give a heads up at this time to pray for miracles. Its all about love and it does no harm to try at least to offer a pray for someone other than yourself, who may be in need. Or for the world for that matter. We often pray in numbers for the same reasons; that many voices will better our chance for prayer requests to be met.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 8, 2005
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    And I agree, as long as

    The prayer is sent through Jesus, who intersesses to God, for us. Since this is the case, The Pope is not needed. Mary may have been blessed, but once the physical death came to her, she was entitled to her reward of peace and eternal life. If Mary STILL intercedes then she is constantly tormented by our sorrows. That goes against Gods promise to her and me and you. She cannot be equal to Jesus or be helping Jesus Intercede for us. That makes Jesus out to be helpless without Mary's help. The entire catholic church was born out of roman deceit, against Ceaser Constantine. His assasination was for, his turning to Christianity. His senate was still with the greek gods. In order to make the Christian faith more palettable for romans; the catholic church began to write about Mary as the female figure of godliness. This had to happen, for romans needed a female god in the mix. All about mary is written later after Jesus is gone from earth and begins after Constantines assanination. She is nothing but a human being after all and deserves equal rest and peace in Heaven, not the torture of hearing our sorrowful pleadings.
  • • Mary O
      April 9, 2005
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      Blessed Mary is indeed suffering for our souls. Is why she has appeared to many. She is the Matriarc of the earth and is holding up the right hand of God for souls. She is not God nor His equil. The Church began with Apostle Peter who is our first Pope, "Peter though art Rock and upon this Rock I will build my church. . ..". All the other stuff you've written is hog-wash.
    • • 
        frndofyaweh
        April 10, 2005
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        Why???

        Why would Mary be robbed of her eternal gift of peace? That seems horribly wrong and makes God look like he has a claus in the contract.
      • 
        frndofyaweh
        April 10, 2005
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        Hogwash?

        I have books, I read books. That is where I got it all from. Maybe it is hogwash, but so is me needing a statue to have support from. I understand things like prayer beads. That is no different than keeping a prayer list handy. When a sin is committed and a need for forgiveness is there; you should ask forgiveness of the victim/s and of God. Through council from a deacon or priest. I do not believe however, that the priest alone; can forgive me. That takes away from the meaning of the word itself.
      • 
        frndofyaweh
        April 10, 2005
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        You have probably seen...

        My definition for forgiveness and giving of it. Today, people take the word too lightly. When I apologize to someone, I should also ask what I can do to rectify it. It must be made right to be truely heart felt desire for the forgiveness.
      • 
        frndofyaweh
        April 10, 2005
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        I have been in many denomins

        Baptist, Nazerene, Methodist, Church of Christ in Christian Union, A bit of Jehovahs witnesses, Mormons and a few other more obscure ones. Never been to mass or a Catholic faith, but I know a priest and several of his congregation members. Only because of my job and location though.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 8, 2005
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    Why do catholics touch his feet

    That is a the worst case of idol worship I have ever seen! Touching the foot of Peters statue??? That statue will most definitely perform wonderous miracles! Satan is no fool; he uses that statue, to make his church appear as the true one. The romans and the new rome! referred to in, Revelation and Daniel in the Bible. The last Pope will play a major roll in the anti-christs reign, whoever it may be.
  • • Mary O
      April 9, 2005
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      Catholic, means Universal. It is the one true church established by Christ Himself. Statues and touching statues means nothing really. Like hanging a picture of a family member is not adoration of the object but whom it represents. Pictures help give an identity to whom we are thinking and praying about. Idol worship, you've got to be kidding. Where did you get the idea we worship idols. How obsurd. It is prophecied that not this coming Pope but the succeeding Pope will reign at the period of time when the world will come to an end. These things don't concern me or many particularly Catholics. We realize our time is now, in the moment we have, to reconcile and become close to God in union with His grace and love.
    • • 
        frndofyaweh
        April 10, 2005
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        An Idol is:

        Any animate or inanimate object that takes the place of or aids in closeness with God or worship of said Father. The use of any device, is belittling Gods power and Jesus' work in progress. My faith and passion is strong, thus I have no need for a cross or picture or priest to confess to.
      • 
        frndofyaweh
        April 10, 2005
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        Ever seen a demon?

        I have. Ever felt an angel? I have. I am truly scared to ask and see an angel. Isn't it funny?; I am not afraid of the demons, they actually fear me. Yet Meeting an angel makes my heart pound at the thought. hmmmmm.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 8, 2005
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    Satan can only hear the spoken prayer not the heart

    This is why confession makes you vulnerable. You tell satan verbally what is on your heart and he can use that against or for you. Depends on what satan needs you to believe. Catholic prayers are most definitely answered, but I sometimes wonder by whom?
  • • Mary O
      April 9, 2005
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      Many Catholics have joined the Jehova Witness for reasons of going to confession. Jesus told the apostles to go out and forgive sinners. Christ our Savior gave to His apostles the power to forgive sin. It's a humbling experience to confess before a man. But at the same time there is such beauty and grace in this virtue of humility. When I confess my sins I'm at the same time saying, "Dear God I withhold nothing of pride as I kneel before you in my shame for my lack of love and disobedience. I beg Your mercy once again. I am weak and in need of Your grace and forgiveness. I give myself intirely to You for love of You. I love You more than myself. I give you my all." To empty ones self before God's ordained priests, a man, takes great courage and ultimately speaks of true contrition whereby nothing is held back and all of self is offered to God. No strings attached to pride. It's a true emptying of self with sincere heart and sincere love for God. We are not intertaining Satan and giving power to him. Satan is all about pride the opposite of what is rendered in the confessional when we lose all pride for love of God. I don't know where you come up with you twists. But you might let go pride yourself. It's the devils grip and where he wants you. Grace is receive through this sacrament whereby we are given strength to once again try to do right again.
    • • 
        Applehead
        October 31
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        "Christ our Savior gave to His apostles the power to forgive sin. "
        
        We all have been given a directive to forgive, it is stated within the Lords prayer and is in our best interests not only for our salvation but for the good of mankind. I have not read that forgiveness comes anywhere from else but from God fundamentally after all He is the judge and not us. If we sin against another man we should be asking there forgiveness and hopefully will receive it so. However without the blood covering of the Lamb we are all to be judged for our sin by God so forgiveness from a man be it friend foe or priest is only temporary. Because of the relationship dynamics involved in asking forgiveness it is clear as to why we should ask the person dealt the blow to forgive but why do we need to seek forgiveness from a priest when it is not him we have trespassed against but the man and in this man God, as we are all made in His image and His likeness and where born of His breath.
        
        
      • • Mary O
          November 1
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          Christ gave His appostles the power to forgive sins. In succession Peter the first Pope of the Catholic church carried out Jesus's request and the sacrament of Penance was instituted. We are taught of the sacramental grace receive by going to confession as help toward avoiding sin.
          
          The church places no judgement on other faiths for we believe that all can only be judged by what they know.
          
          There's particular beauty, along with the grace received, when confessing to a priest; one of God's anointed, and that is the will to empty oneself of all pride. What better way to show our true contrition as we humble ourselves before man and God. Essentially we are saying, "See, dear Lord, I love You above all even myself.
        • • 
            Applehead
            November 2
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            "Christ gave His appostles the power to forgive sins."
            
            Please could you provide your scripture reference for this? It is my belief that we are, when baptised with fire and born again into Christ, all are able to have direct relationship with God through His Holy Spirit as we dwell in Him and Him in us. And so it is my understanding that we possess the authority in Christ to receive anothers confession if they so wish. However forgiveness comes from God and from the receiver of any wrong doing. I completely understand why speaking to an annointed man of God with regards anything needing advice or prayer, it does puzzle me why Catholic confession is held in a box if we are to humble ourselves before man and God how can one do so when hidden by a box?
            
            1 John 1:9-10 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."
            
            This says to me that God is available for us to confess our sin to at all times and that He cleanses us from all unrighteousness through his Holy Spirit.
            
            
            "We are taught of the sacramental grace receive by going to confession as help toward avoiding sin."
            
            This hints to me of guilt which can lead to condemnation and the Word tells us that there is no condemnation in Christ, repentance means to confess and to change the behaviour we are repentant of which when difficult can be spoken into being through positive confession and prayer.
            
            Do you believe it is possible for self/Godly sanctification through relationship with the Holy Spirit on an intimate level without the need for another?
            
            Intercessary prayer is sometimes necessary Matthew 18:19 -20 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.” However the Holy Spirit is more than capable of changing us from the inside out when we allow His will in our lives. Revelation through meditation, study and prayer can all lead us to heartfelt conviction and confession to God Himself.
            
            "The church places no judgement on other faiths for we believe that all can only be judged by what they know."
            
            Thats good to hear, we are also not in a position to judge as God is Just and not us. Though we are asked to test all things, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 " But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" and so we cannot take a mans word for everything as men are fallible. The Holy Spirit inspired revelation, Word of God, and the Father are most certainly infallible and to be trusted implicitly.
            
            What is it you mean by "what they know"? Are you refering to intellect?
            
            Denomination is divisional. Christ has one body and Christians are that body. Christ has one bride and Christians are His bride.
            
            Please understand I ask these questions with respect and curiosity. After reading a few of your posts on this site it appears you are a peaceful, respectful person who has a loving reverance for the Lord and I do not wish to convey I believe otherwise. My methods of communication on this site have proved to be less than understood in recent times so I am attempting to avoid offence without intention
            
            In Matthew 6 Jesus explains the Holyness of private intimate prayer.
            
            I especially like the commentary by Wesley which goes:
            
            6:1 In the foregoing chapter our Lord particularly described the nature of inward holiness. In this he describes that purity of intention without which none of our outward actions are holy. This chapter contains four parts, The right intention and manner of giving alms, ver.1 -
            4. The right intention, manner, form, and prerequisites of prayer, ver.5 - 15. The right intention, and manner of fasting, ver.16 - 18. The necessity of a pure intention in all things, unmixed either with the desire of riches, or worldly care, and fear of want, ver.19 - 34. This verse is a general caution against vain glory, in any of our good works: All these are here summed up together, in the comprehensive word righteousness. This general caution our Lord applies in the sequel to the three principal branches of it, relating to our neighbour, ver.2 - 4: to God, ver.5, 6: and to ourselves, ver.16 - 18. To be seen - Barely the being seen, while we are doing any of these things, is a circumstance purely indifferent. But the doing them with this view, to be seen and admired, this is what our Lord condemns.
            
            My concern is, and not only for those of the Catholic religion, that people can so easily become bound by religion and the heart becomes repetitive, losing motive without recognition of Gods desire for pure intention and so the love we have for our God is clouded over by tradition.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 8, 2005
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    Satan will raise the dead.

    There is more in that quote than it appears. It speaks volumes about Satans reign and the power he has, even now to manipulate believers. We know absolutely, that one faith is true and one appears true. which is which? I am willing to bet my LIFE, that catholicism(although they have good intentions) is the best candidate for the false faith.
  • • Mary O
      April 9, 2005
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      How can a faith that preaches only love for God and His commandments be false and of evil? Certainly we have good Catholics and not so good catholics but I'm speaking of the teachings of the Church not individuals. We are all weak when it comes to love, God's love and we are all in need of forgiveness no mater who we are. Jesus is example of His great forgiveness to all when upon the cross He said, "Father, forgive them for they no not what they do." People who commit serious offense in crime and etc. are not completely aware of the extent of their crime. Just as you are not aware of your own lack of love and sin in making judgements of others. Just as you find difficult to master not to commit the smallest of sin, how then can you judge another whom has not God and His graces in their life. We ourselves are sinners just as everyone is. We are to ultimately do as Jesus did, love our neighbor as ourselves and forgive one another. How then can you assume catholism is a candidate for false faith. Incidently, why do you attack a faith instituted by Christ himself? Why are you affraid of the confessional? Pride is the biggest distroyer of mankind. It is not love and love cannot coexist with pride. Why would you hold back confessing to a man. Are you affraid? Is pride rooted in this fear? You might ask yourself. And then ask who or what is holding you to your pride. I garrantee it is not Love for love can lose itself at all cost just as Jesus did upon the cross.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 8, 2005
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    Do not be hurt

    I am not trying to be mean on purpose. I know my challenge to you is rightious. If I am wrong, then give me rightious anger in return, but back it up with some bible script. I will not be hurt or offended. If you can show me God in the catholic faith, I will turn to it and defend your faith. But, also show me Gods strength in it. How powerful is it? God casts out demons immediately in my faith. I have seen miracle healings, without any saint or Pope involved, Only one to intercede. miracles where the intersessor is anonymous. Healing can come with a handshake, while you are unaware. It is not the Pope or priests that are wrong. it is what they allow to take place that is wrong. John Paul II, was a great and wise Pope! I rally behind him, for all he stood for but; I still know the truth in my heart. The catholic church leaves itself vulnerable, like no other faith. It has flaws all through it, that does not follow Gods logistics in the Bible.
  • • Mary O
      April 9, 2005
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      Be rest assured the Catholic church will live on until the end of time. It will never fail in standards of faith and morals. We are the Church Universal and the the grace of God will keep it true. We as human fail at grace always but we know our weaknesses and we go to God in complete surrender to the best of our abilities. We all struggle in love. With faith we do our best. For all the wrongs in my past life, how wonderful should one forgive and pray for me rather than reject me. Then, I shall be eternally greatful. :) I have no power of persuasion. I can only contribute what I know and believe to the best of my ability and that's not saying much for me. I can only hope that I made some sense to you and God willing I said something good. God said, "Ask and you shall receive." Here is your best bet for persuasion. I will keep you in my prayers. BTW, I know you're not mean or at least I'm too nieve to tell. I only assume the love in your heart which I know is there. :)
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 10, 2005
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    You are touching on my heart

    That is the stuff that drove me from the churches. when I pray to my Dad is is like this: Hello Father, I love you so much! Oh boy another adventurous day! SWEET!... etc. Jackie needs you today father and Sam has this thing that..... I'll be needing some help today with that thing and this issue is, etc....etc,.. Oh yeah, before I forget; I have this one question , from a friend last night. Could you answer it for me? And .... Send it up, Jesus. No a-mens because we talk all day long. so I only say A-men when I sleep. Notice I talk to my Father, Like He really is my Father. I respect Him and His magesty. But My Father listens to my heart Not my words. Fancy sayings and prayers may not be bad, But it is plastic coating, not the way you would really talk, If Jesus was standing right in front of you. I come to God Humbly and unworthy. God also knows I think He is; "WAY AWESOME and KOOLest POP! I interact with my Father minute to minute, Not any fancy prayer stuff or funny clothes or silly statues. GOd is my Father I am His Son. THat is the church! That is all I need, to see the Beauty of everything under the sun.
  • Mary O
    April 10, 2005
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    Drove you from what chruch? Catholic, I'm guessing. As far as prayer is concerned, for some to have written words is helpful. By all means a better form is contemplative prayer, but not everyone finds this easy nor comfortable. Anyway, I'm happy you find confort in daily communication with God. And as I said before, we are only judged by what we know. I can't offer you anything more. I'm certain God knows what he is doing by you.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 10, 2005
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    I know what the apostles can do

    Peter was made a Pope after his death. He was crucified by the roman senate. I know all the history. Ceaser came up with the pope title, after the fact. YOU!!!!!! YOU GOT ME! Peter, is that rock that God will build his church upon. Figuratively and literally. I will have to look further into this, Very heart turning statement, Mary O.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 10, 2005
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    Maybe?

    I have been told, in my heart; that My arguments are hurtful and I brag some. I almost did not come back here for a bit. You must know that, I find arguing stimulating. I never get angry or offended or embarassed. Accept; Rightious anger. Justified temper tantrum. I say this: The Pope is in Heaven. He is promised eternal peace there, after all. He was a great Man, in physical life. A true faithful servant. But the catholic church does have open wounds, so do the other denominations. I know about the foot on Peters statue. That is based directly on the greeks need to touch their statues of Gods, it helped edify their faith and so the catholics prophess, that it edifies their faith in God. I need nothing to have the faith, My believe is very edified, I can move a mountain.
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 10, 2005
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    No not blond hair or short.

    My hair goes clear down my back. I have never shaved off my mustache, ever. I am 40 years old, Father and husband. I have been a drug dealer. Prisoner. Preacher. Minister. Sunday school teacher. a robber a robbee. Gun welder and gun wacked. Business owner. life saver. sacrificer. healer. church goer, church grower. wiseman. consultant. Intersessor. Deacon. Mentor. scientist. Mensa candidate. Carpenter. artist. poet. writer. musician. steel worker. barge driver. Supervisor. Councilor and candidate. minister and speaker. evangist. Host. true friend. God has let me use nearly every spiritual gift. If I became a priest of the Catholic denomin; I would have to hide for fear of becoming a saint.
  • • Mary O
      April 10, 2005
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      If married you cannot become a Roman Catholic priest. Perhaps a Deacon. For fear of becomming a saint? Many a saint lived as yourself before turning to God. Like the prodigal son, let's celebrated the return home, to God. :) Bragging: We all like to think of our self worth and be recognized for the good we've done; but, know that only by the love and grace of God can we lift a finger to do anything good. Therefore, we have nothing to brag about really and this self boasting only serves to heighten our pride making us feel we stand somewhere above another; that stinking devil. :) No, we need only be thankful to God to have been an instrument of sorts, to do something good.
    • • 
        frndofyaweh
        June 2, 2005
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        Moses a saint

        He was married.
      • 
        frndofyaweh
        June 2, 2005
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        Moses a saint

        He was married.
    • 
      Applehead
      November 2
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      lol we are all saints in Christ
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 10, 2005
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    Oh no!

    I bragged again. But it truly is not me. I do know that I am nothing without Gods power and will being envolved. I understand humility and Have performed greatness in anonyminity. Sorry cannot tell you more about that. Heheeehee
  • • Mary O
      April 10, 2005
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      Yes, indeed keep it to yourself, for what the Father sees in private will be greatly rewarded by Him alone. One who beckons for and receives a compliment from another human has already been rewarded, yes?
  • 
    frndofyaweh
    April 13, 2005
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    Mary, Mary

    I love you already, my true friend. The Catholic Church Is rightious, But that solidifies Satans determination, to use it for his gain. I prefer Leaving no obsticles or openings, in My relationship with Father/Christ/Spirit. I am currently studying more about Peter and his crucifixion. Also his journeys and interaction with Jesus, etc. I may be totally over reacting to the catholic faith. I will Know more very soon and will return to start a new thread here(religion Genre).
  • Mary O
    April 13, 2005
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    I'm happy to hear you're studying Peter. Find in his life, his own struggles with pride, or self-preservation, lacking full trust in God's will be done: paraphrased from sacred scripture, "He who saves his life shall die. He who saves his soul shall live." In the end he did reach such spiritual maturity that he surrendered all to martyrdom out of pure love for God. Another amazing story is the story of St. Paul, "Saul." Most excellent read as well. Saul went from Jew murdering Christians to Paul (name given him by Christ), becoming one of God's greatest apostolate’s, converting multitudes of people to the Christian faith. He disrupted the largest trade industry of the times which was the sale of idols by his spread of Christianity throughout the Middle East and Europe. This along with other reasons brought him to his final martyrdom where he was ultimately beheaded. Anyway, I love you too, my friend. Take care.

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