There are 3 choices, 3 votes for loveyourfate's debate

How" did Jesus his dying, save us from sin?

• not simple in the least!

  this is a matter of faith thus not really open to debate. if you want IM me and we can exchange emails and I'll answer you i warn you it is long and involved.
  simple version; Jesus was born sinless. remained sinless through his life. was killed according to the old testament law on sacrifices thus turning himself into the perfect sacrifice fulfilling the law and all the old testament prophecies concerning the messiah.
  check out Jimmy Swaggart's web site he once did a bible study on this subject. i believe it was called the temple in the wilderness.
  

  Voted for by bob2314.

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  • 
    Dwn
    January 13
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    Having lived a perfect life he became our sin that we (his people, those in which he died for ) became his rightiousness
  • 
    bob2314
    January 13
    Edit | Reply
    he is our shield from the law of sin and death.
    he is our rightousness. we are whale poop.
  • 
    Dwn
    January 13
    Edit | Reply
    amen to that Bob. accept by the grace of God there go I, His blood made us clean in the eyes of God , and with that covering, we are rightious. I have an understanding of this , but I have none the less thought "what a filthy rightiousness we are"
  • 
    Molzahn
    January 14
    Edit | Reply
    I find that ridiculously ironic, that by killing him sin is annulled.
  • billbrando
    January 14
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    This is like asking how Santa Claus gets down every chimney in the world(well, at least the Christian world) in one night. As far as the question "not being open to debate," any time a claim is made about the world it is open to debate. I think what the above commenter means is that those who believe the aforementioned rubbish have no credible evidence that God even exists let alone that He came to earth as a man and died to save us; therefore, one has to willingly suspend disbelief in the same way that children who start to suspect ole Saint Nick is a fiction do.
    As far as the other stuff about the sacrifices in what is called the "Old Testament" by Christians but Torah by Jews, he's pretty much right. This is the standard Christian interpretation of the meaning of Christ's death. The idea is that God gave the Israelites the Law, but the Israelites were unable to keep it. The Law included a number of sacrifices, from lambs, pigeons, to the way one ate, dressed, treated the sick--basically it was intended as a removal from the world. One was to sacrifice the free right to live in accordance with the world and its virtues to show reverance for Him. The Israelites, however, were unable to keep this rather strict code (there were and are actually over 600 "Commandments" given to Moses on the mountain, a fact most people ignore), so God came to earth as Christ, the spotless Lamb of God, as a fitting sacrifice to save man. What, however, most people don't know is that this "man" meant only the Jew. It wasn't until after Paul that the idea of universal salvation, that including the Gentiles, was born. So, it isn't even known if Christ meant his message and mission to include non-Jews at all.
  • • 
      pnktrky
      January 14
      Edit | Reply
      he preached in the coastlands... aka the gentiles... good samaritan story is about a hated group... he hung among tax collectors... save a supposide whore... what makes you think his message is only for jews... if you cant get that what jesus have you been quoting? im sorry but what he actually says can tell you enough to know that. which by they way was not that much. paul is only in the other books... the gospel and to be more exact the quotations of jesus should be the full focus. but most ppl get cought up everwhere else.
  • 
    bob2314
    January 14
    Edit | Reply

    Jehovah shiloh

    molzahn, why were Cains sacrifices not accepted?
    was able gods "favorite" or was cane doing something wrong? sin calls for a blood sacrifice.
    Jesus became that blood sacrifice. that is why the vail between the outer temple (where the people could go) and the holy of hollies(where only
    the priests could go) was riped and cast down at Jesus death. we now can go boldly before the throne of god!
  • • endsofbread
      January 14
      Edit | Reply
      Actually the vail still remains. It is a holy vail in God's spiritual temple. not all of us can go before the throne of God. Only the 144,000 who are to act as priests and kings, bought from the earth, who sang a song no one else was able to master. Just as jesus said, at the beginning of his sermon on the mount, some will go to heaven while the meek ones will inherit the earth. everyone else who does not go to heaven will be ruled over (rulers and kings must have subjects, no?) on a paradise earth. There they will live forever perfectly. God is not only making a new heavens, but also a new earth. It will be inhabited just as God originally purposed when He created Adam and Eve, by perfect, loyal humans.
    • • 
        bob2314
        January 15
        Edit | Reply
        mark 15:38, matt 27:51, luke 23:45,
      • • endsofbread
          January 18
          Edit | Reply
          My point is that I agree with these scriptures, but disagree with your interpretation of them. However, I feel it would be a far too lengthy and complicated discussion.
          Yes the literal curtain was ripped, but that does not mean there are no spiritual barriers to God's throne. Hence, the vail still remains.
          Its really a moot point considering how vastly our faiths differ. I'm sorry for even starting a discussion about it.
  • 
    bob2314
    January 14
    Edit | Reply
    billbrando, I'm sorry i misspoke. you can debate me on any and all posts i make. my intent on saying that "this subject was not open to debate"
    was simply to avoid what you seem to want to do butt heads. it was not my intent to evangelize just to answer a rather complex question with a minimum of distractions sorry i am not a moderator nor do i own allphilosophy in other words i don't make the rules here i try to follow them.
    
    
    loveyourfate's question is extremely complex and does not lend it self to a debate site. in order to give the asker the answer he deserves i have to be able to jump from gen. to rev. and all points in between. no easy task if you have to defend every thing you write.
    
    BTW. i can defend my beliefs. you can challenge them any time you want that is what this site is all about. but as far as challenging my faith you my as well run headlong in to a brick wall. you will have as much success. and for that i do not apologise
    
  • 
    TeChNoWC
    January 19
    Edit | Reply
    The veil has been ripped, endsofbread, and we can go before God's throne. If we can't, it's because we don't know how. Now we may not physically be able to walk into heaven before the throne of God, but I believe the verse is partially figurative. It is to say our sins can be washed so as to bring us back into the ability to have a direct, unhindered relationship with the Lord our God, directed by the power of the Holy Spirit in commune with us.
  • truthsayer
    March 1
    Edit | Reply
    The death of Jesus hasn't saved us YET. The truth is, Jesus cannot save us, but we can save ourselves THROUGH Him. Ones own salvation depends entirely upon the individual. Jesus can only do so much. He provided an example for us to follow. It is up to us to follow it! There is nothing more Jesus can do. His ascending into heaven is the end result for all of us if we are to follow the path He laid. The Christ was not Jesus's last name, but the God conscience which dwells in all of us as children of God, yet shone brightly in Jesus. That is what can enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did indeed sacrifice something on the Cross that day, and not one christian knows what it is. Jesus had earned his right to enter the kingdom of god and become as one with the source. But He was given one final assignment. A true test of faith and unconditional love. To carry the burdens of the world on His shoulders. He cannot truly enter the Kingdom of God laden with burden. This is what He sacrificed for christians everywhere, and they only use Him as their scapegoat! While they continue to pile their burdens upon the shoulders of Jesus, they keep Him a prisoner to their sins. You hear them say,"Jesus loves us!", but how much do they love Jesus? Enough to begin taking responsibility for their own actions, follow the path Jesus laid out for them, (one of spirituality), and remove some of their burdens from His shoulders? We will see.
    
    R emaining on the dark side of
    E nlightenment.
    L iving in total
    I gnorance of the truth within the word
    G od has spoken.
    I nstilling and worshipping fear while
    O ppressing all understanding of the true
    N ature, which is God.
    
    
    S ouls journey along an ascended
    P ath toward enlightenment.
    I ntegrity and
    R ighteousness lead the way, converting
    I gnorance and fear into
    T ruth and
    U nderstanding.
    A scending into the
    L ight, fear is erased,
    I gnorance replaced by
    T ruth. Gods wisdom and understanding are
    Y ours throughout eternity.

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