There are 2 choices, 3 votes for Crazyhead's debate

I Remember Afganistan

• I REMEMBER _____

  Before President Clinton left office the call for the invasion of Afghanistan started. of course at that time it was about woman being murdered and statues in Hindu Kusch.
  
  I read an article last night by human rights watch stating that there are 417 kids on death row in Iran the youngest is 12 who's only crime is that they have been accused of being homosexual. the article didn't state how meny adults have been murdered for the same "crime".
  
  Rowanda, darfur, Somalia, Hitler's Europe or my own little "peace keeping" time in Lebanon. you know when we were not allowed to put bullets in our rifles. it seems to me that Europe and the UN love to see the us rattle our saber as long as that saber is firmly kept in it's sheath or is made out of foam rubber. It's funny the Americans are imperialists when we use our military and we are wimps when we don't.
  
  Tell me why is there a UN? Is their sole purpose to clog the streets of New York?
  Is the United States a super power? If not can we sit out the next european, African, Asian murderer? Tell me when is the proper time to use the military?
  
  And the 64,000 euro question why is it that if America is so bad and is filled with evil imperialists are all the trouble spots in the world past French or British colonies?
  

  66%  Voted for by bob2314, cosmosis.

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  • 
    Weydon
    June 19
    Edit | Reply
    We need to decide what a superpower's responsibility really is. What is the border between policing injustice and butting into business that isn't ours? What is the price of entering a civil war that we can never end just by pouring in a third faction?
    
    There are, and always have been, hundreds of terrible places in the world. Underprivileged in wealth and progress, and flooded with death and prejudice and tyranny. We don't always go. We went decades without real war, and all these terrible things kept happening. We didn't crush the easily defined "bad guys" every chance we got. There were ulterior motives for the current war, and there happened to be such "bad guys" running amok there (for a LONG time) already. So we plaster the "defeat" of them all over like we're fighting the Nazi's all over again (boy that was an easily defined war...). And yeah, maybe we can chalk up a couple of lines on the Pros column. Saddam's out, more people have the capacity to freedom. Check and check. But do they outweigh the Cons? The thousands and thousands of deaths, both our own and the enemy and those stuck in between? Are we really all that much closer to WHATEVER measure of success we were looking for in the first place? Or are we looking at "another 100 years" of the Mission Accomplished War? Vietnam's success rate with an even longer stay.
  • • 
      bob2314
      June 19
      Edit | Reply

      on skull and bones and the hemp cha cha

      "There are, and always have been, hundreds of terrible places in the world. Underprivileged in wealth and progress, and flooded with death and prejudice and tyranny."
      >So far i agree weydon. i would just add that they are not America's responsibility.
      "We don't always go. We went decades without real war, and all these terrible things kept happening"
      >What decades and what makes a "real" war in your opinion. was Lebanon real? Somalia, Korea, Granada.
      my definition has always been when real people fire real bullets at you. and you fire back under orders from a real government.
      "We didn't crush the easily defined "bad guys" every chance we got."
      >I assume your talking about Saddam and bin laden. Saddam did the old hemp cha cha that tends to ruin your ability to be an international pain in the ass. bin laden is hiding in a cave somewhere making bad movies.
      I'd prefer his head on a pike in the rose garden but i think we can consider at least Saddam crushed.
      "There were ulterior motives for the current war"
      >Your going to have to get me up to speed here is it skull and bones, haliburton, oil, oil companies or a hidden plot I've missed this week?
      
      i'm running out of space and the only point left responding to is your misquote of John Mccain I'll save it for another post.
      
      
  • 
    Weydon
    June 19
    Edit | Reply
    "i would just add that they are not America's responsibility."
    
    So what is the current war about and possible war in Iran? Is it about the 417 kids on death row, or is that just a convenience in declaring war? You can be a cruel despot all you like, but don't piss off our profit margins because then we have a long list of bad deeds to go to war with you over that we previously looked the other way on.
    
    "What decades and what makes a "real" war in your opinion. was Lebanon real? Somalia, Korea, Granada."
    
    Yes, I believe the Korean War was a war. And I think GrEnada, and not Granada, was a much briefer military operation with questionable justification, but not a war--and the first major US military operation since Vietnam. I understand and respect you were a Marine, but I don't know why you're trying to twist my stance into the one that's uncaring about the effects of war. War is different from brief military operations not only in that actual war is not declared, but the duration and massive effects on the soldiers, families, public, and even economy are worlds apart. Yes, military operation, or flatfoot cop, getting shot at and shooting in return is scary--and losing lives of loved ones is always tragic. But it is not the same as war.
    
    "I assume your talking about Saddam and bin laden."
    
    No, I'm talking about the many terrible people and organizations we let run rampant. Which, as it happens to be, includes Saddam and Bin Laden in the PAST, as we essentially ignored them for quite some time. Just like we ignore other people in plight. You mention Darfur but we don't go there. That is what I mean. We pretend the current war is about spreading freedom and tolerance and justice and peace. It's not, we always ignore those problems in the world unless there's an ulterior motive. We could be pouring massive (trillions as it seems now) amounts of money into non-violent, or mostly non-violent means of helping people if our motivation was the pain in our hearts to injustice. But we never would, there's nothing to gain back.
    
    
    "Your going to have to get me up to speed here is it skull and bones, haliburton, oil, oil companies or a hidden plot I've missed this week?"
    
    Oh yeah, same old same old. I guess we can just ignore these problems as jokes since they just seem to stick around. Tee-hee!
    
    "
    i'm running out of space and the only point left responding to is your misquote of John Mccain I'll save it for another post."
    
    I'm well aware that McCain meant leaving military bases in the "Accomplished" war we're in. But unlike Germany in WWII, we'd be leaving bases in a military active zone. In a country torn apart by civil war, where many still hate us for interfering. This is not the same as other cases of leaving military in other nations. It, like slyly pointed out to my black heart before, would not be a WAR in semantics, but would be A HUNDRED YEARS or more of constant military conflict. While not a formally declared war, I would consider this more of a war than Grenada.
    
    Sidenote: After six years and 10 billion dollars, the US attempt at training an Afghani National Army to stabilize themselves and not have to depend on us someday: only 2 out of it's 105 units have been designated combat ready. Looks promising for whatever plans we have to stabilizing Iraq, Iran, and whoever else we decide a threat we should fix up (NOT Saudi Arabia, linked to the terrorist attacks unlike Iraq).
  • • 
      Crazyhead
      June 23
      Edit | Reply
      it seems more and more like the "war on terror" is not so much about terrorists...

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