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The other side of GodAccording to Christians, they tell us that God is Love, Mercy, Compassion and most of all Moral. However, the bible paints a rather different picture. If the Bible were the word of God, then God himself would tell us that does both Good and evil and that he is the cause of all things.37% Voted for by ChristSmith, Nephilem, Sent1nel.
God's "word" tells us the following:
"To every thing there is a season (an appointed time), and a time to every purpose (event) under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
AND:
"I know that, whatsoever God does...NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it" (Ecc. 3:14).
First we see that God’s own words tell us that he planned EVERYTHING to happen at an appointed time and NOTHING can be put to it nor ANYTHING taken from it. God had done it!
Many will make excuses and attempt to tell us that we have taken his word out of context or we don't understand the word of God. In my opinion, it is perfectly clear. If we are to believe in the Bible as the word of God, then EVERYTHING is OF HIM. Everything!
Let us look at a few more scriptures that further explain my point:
“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…” (Rom. 11:36).
“And ALL THINGS are of God…” (II Cor. 5:;18).
“…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).
OPERATES - To Control the Function!
“Declaring the END from the BEGINNING…” (Isa. 46:10).
“For in Him we LIVE, and MOVE, and have our BEING (‘we ARE’—we exist)…” (Acts 17:28).
"...IN Him [Christ] is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth..." (Col. 1:16).
"For OUT of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR is ALL" (Rom. 11:36).
"In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works [Greek: ‘is operating’] ALL things after [after what? His ‘free’ will?] ... After the COUNSEL of His own will" (Eph. 1:11)!
"God is operating ALL in all" (I Cor. 12:6)
"Yet ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
Yes, those are a few examples where we have God clearly stated everything is of him. We will still have people telling us that this doesn't include evil.
What does God say? Let us take a look:
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil” (Isa. 45:7).
“And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow… the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:9).
“It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Literal Old Testament).
“I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11).
“…I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction” (Jer. 4:6).
“…Hear, O earth; behold, I will bring evil upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19).
“…Thus says the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you…” (Jer. 18:11).
“…so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land…” (Josh. 23:15)
“What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?” (Job 2:10).
We can see that God's own words clear. The man that kills the little child or abuses a child, is of God and it was "planned" by God and "approved" by God. This is all according to the Bible, God's word.
"The Lord has made everything for his own ends, even the wicked for the evil day."
God has stated he makes the "waster to destroy" and it was all "predestinated according to the purpose of HIM who works ALL things"
If we believe the Bible to be the word of God, then we must admit that it is God that planned everything, causes everything, controls everything...."all in all".
Now, we can see that this God, is the reason a child is killed, abused, tortured because Everything is OF HIM and this is his word claiming responsibility for ALL THINGS. I do not call the abuse of Children moral or good but those that believe in this God, call him Moral and give him Praise and he admits to created the wicked for the evil day. The wicked that harm children.
Some will tell us that God doesn't do these things. Seems they forget that God himself claims to have flooded the world and murdered most all life, to include children, the pregnant women (abortion) in a slow, torturous flood. I call that sick and NOT moral. Yet people praise and worship this God for his mass murder?
This very same God, according to many that believe, PROMISES to TORTURE billions and billions in a lake of fire that provides an eternity of pain and suffering. They call this God love? Peace? Mercy? Compassion? MORAL?
If we are to believe the "word" of this Christian God, then he causes everything and that would include all death, suffering, destruction, evil and good.
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Do you expect Christians to listen to you?When you are apparently not Christian and you just picked through the Bible to try to make an opinion on God(like you are an expert)? Are you a Bible scholar? Do you know the context and meaning of each of those verses? No, you don't(this is especially apparent with your citation of Job ).37% Voted for by Carpool, ChristSmith, Eresipel.Please login or register to comment.
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No, I Do Not Care If Christian Listen.
I do not care if Christians listen to what I have to say. They will most likely what you have stated.
I want those that have yet to decide and are not yet brainwashed to think critically about this entire God thing.
The scripture is clear. Christian may not like it that God stated "EVERYTHING is OF HIM" even men's "steps are not of himself". When god stated in the bible that he "operates all in all" (controls the function) then it is not me to argue with his word.
Scripture after scripture supports exactly what I have stated. Do you have a scripture that states "NOT all is of God" or "God doesn't operate all in all"?
I do have a solid understanding of what is stated in the bible in both the Greek and Hebrew translations. I am not an expert or a scholar but I do not believe a God would expect everyone to be an expert or scholar to understand his simple words. It is very easy to understand the words "everything" , "all" , "all in all" , "NOTHING" and to understand the context of those words.
Think about it, Jesus gave an example of how "everything" is of the father and you can do "NOTHING" but for the father. He gave many examples....here is one:
Do you remember the disciples when they told Jesus they would never deny him? Jesus told them they would. They repeated that they would never do such a thing. Jesus told them they would. What happened? They denied him. They thought it was according to their will but the story in the bible makes it clear it is NOT of them but instead, just like the scriptures I posted.....OF the Father.
So, to answer your question, NO, I do not care if Christian listen but I work to help the youth understand what is really stated in the bible.
Additionally, the bible makes it clear that ALL men will be saved. Not 5 percent but ALL of the world will be saved.
It also makes it clear that NONE are saved NOW and it is instead a future event.
However, there are many religions and hundreds of denominations of the Christian religion, I am sure you may have picked the right version. -
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God is not the author of evil
But he may use evil to accomplish His will(this is the entire point of the book of Job )
- The Bible does not say that all will be saved(not sure about newer translations of the Bible)
-What do you mean none are saved now? How can you be sure it is speaking of a future event? In the Old Testament, the messianic prophesies are written in the PAST tense; although Jesus had not yet come.
It is because you are not a Christian that I asked if you were a scholar on the Bible, because you need to be able to understand the context of the verses(ie what the author's intent was when writing it). You can't just pick up an ancient book and be able to understand what the author was trying to say.
God's will works through everything, but God is not the author of evil.
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I am not sure what you are not understanding about the bible which is clearly stated: God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil...scriptural fact. God created evil...scriptural fact. God created the wicked for the evil day...scriptural fact. God created satan and ALL things, Scriptural fact. God created the waster to destroy...scriptural fact. God himself does evil...scriptural fact, read the bible. I am happy to post some of the numerous scriptures to support this fact as well. God drowned most all life on earth, to include babies, infants, sucklings, unborn children still in the womb of the mother (abortion), and even little helpless animals in his flood which caused many to die slow, torturous deaths. This is evil. To torture a baby, is evil. even if that baby did something wrong, it is EVIL and imoral! that is a fact. God is EVERYTHING, and this means he is both evil and good and all things between. scriptural fact.
About all being saved:
As I stated in my last post “Everything is of Him (God) and this is directly from scripture. Also we have learned that God created the “wicked for the evil day” and the “waster to destroy” and that he “operates (controls the function) all in all” and that you and even Jesus could do “nothing but for the father. As a matter of fact, we learned from the bible that even though we, like the disciples, think we have free will do what we want, we can NOT. Just as the disciples thought they had free will to Not deny Jesus, Jesus made it clear it was not their decision. Again, the bible even tells us that the steps of men are not of themselves.
Now, since the bible states all the above, then we would all understand why it also states that all men will be saved. Why? Because it is not men’s will that is done but it is the Father’s will. If someone does something back (wicked for the evil day) it is god that “before ordained” it to happen. He “planned” it from the beginning to include the ending. Therefore, it is not man that is accountable for what he does as God planned exactly what everyone would do and scripture that I have posted supports my statement. I can provide more scriptures in support of this as well.
So, again, this is a very good reason for God to say that all men will be saved, because it is not you or I that directs all things but it is God, according to the bible (EVERYTHING is OF HIM, ALL is of GOD, You can do NOTHING but for the father….).
Many will say God doesn’t save all men but if the bible is the word of God, then they contradict God.
"God our Saviour; Who WILL have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." I Tim. 2:4
Notice again the word “ALL”. Notice it didn’t say some, or part, or only those that believe a specific version or translation or denomination of a religion. It clearly stated ALL.
Now, I get some Christians to tell me the word WILL is really to be interpreted as “desires”. Guess what? The bible (“god’s word) states that God’s WILL, God’s Desires and God’s Pleasures WILL be done. However, let us not take just that one scripture as proof, let us look at a few more.
"The Lord…is NOT WILLING that ANY should perish …" (II Peter. 3:9).
My guess is that if the All Powerful God is NOT willing then he will have his Will. If he is not willing that any should perish then they will NOT perish. However, we have many more scriptures to support my “opinion”.
"Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has it cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him making peace through the blood of His cross, through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Col. 1:14-20).
COMMENT: Let us look at it again…..EVERY Creature, killing the enmity, makes both one, creating the two, in the heaven, on the earth, the visible, the invisible, in all, all is created, before all, all, the entire, to reconcile all, on the earth,in the heavens. Wow...i didn't notices the billions and billions of people that christians think are going to hell fire forever.
Could there be more? Of course there is more that supports that All will be saved and continues to prove that it is not man’s free will but the will of God, according to the bible.
"I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL [Gk. "the" all] men unto me" (John 12:32).
"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified" (I Cor. 15:22).
Yes it is pretty clear but let us see what more we can find but which religious types will NOT want us to learn.
"To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD unto Himself, NOT imputing [reckoning] THEIR TRESPASSES [SINS] AGAINST THEM" (II Cor. 5:19)
Wow, the WORLD….not just a portion of those in the world. The World! Is it not clear enough? OK, another witness:
"And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our’s only, but also for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2).
Now he clarifies it with more precision. The WHOLE WORLD…..one can not get much clearer than that, can they.
Christian will say this is not possible but does the bible state?
With men this is impossible; but with God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" (Matt. 19:25-26).
On top of all this proof I have provided to support my statements, we have yet more.
Remember, what does one have to do to be saved? They have to confess that Jesus is lord. What did God say in his “word”. He stated, “every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord”. This God is claiming EVERY TONGUE is going to confess that Christ is lord. Therefore, again, supporting what I have stated, all men will be saved and that is because it is all of god anyway.
"For God has concluded them all [both the Israelites and the Gentiles—see verses 25-31] in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon ALL. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God? How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor? Or who has first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen" (Rom. 11:32-36).
Oh, there is so much more to reveal and expose of the Christian version of the bible. No wonder they have so many denominations, they all want to make their own twist and none seem to actually believe what it actually states clearly.
NO WHERE in the bible does it stated you are saved NOW. That is one way to be sure. I can break down how the word shall is used if you want and how in every instance in the bible it is discussing a future event. you shall be saved....not you shall be saved NOW.
This is the problem with so many religions. they teach what they have been taught from birth without actually reading what is really stated in the bible.
you make statements and yet you provide no support from the bible. i provide examples and scripture from the bible to support what i state. you have no argument if you cannot show how i take it out of context or how your can provide scriptures that state what i have stated it not true.
i used to be a christian and took it so seriously that i studied and took classes and started to read the history and use reference books for hebrew and greek. you can claim and say i do not understand and i can claim the same about you.
however, one of us is providing scripture and examples and the other is NOT.
Do you have a scripture that states god is not the author of evil? if you do, then God didn't created all things.
"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God, [like: ‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION" (Mark 7:7 & 9).
Think about it!
Where does the bible state is the home of satan or where satan lives? if you don't know, it is the CHURCH. Where do you learn your version of Christianity or where did it originate? The Church. you follow the exact doctrine provided by the standard Christian teaching from the Church. it contradicts the actual word of god.
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look at verse one, of chapter one, of the book of revelations out of your king james bible. "it was signified by the angle" signified, or put into symbols....NOT Literal. The fire of God is NOT literal but instead is the spiritural fire of god that will purify men of their impurities so they can stand with him and before him pure. but like many christians, you may just follow what you are taught, i don't know what you believe but i do know the standard christian teaching as i was one for much of my life.
look at the book of revelations. notice chapter after chapter of symbols and then suddenly when it comes to the verse about hell fire and the second death....christians claim it is literal. come on, give me a break. -
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you are lost.
First of all, God created the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, not ‘God created evil’. When Eve ate of the tree, she became ‘as God, KNOWING good and evil’. Nothing God can do is evil. He is all love, all good, and all truth. He is also a very JUST God, who allows the wicked to be punished. When he destroyed those people in the flood were they not warned? Now let me ask you something, you would know better than God if his punishments are just?? Yes there probably were lots of children that died, but is it worth preserving the body to go to eternal death(hell)? Do you think those children are in hell? How many times in Scripture does it say we will be judged according to our WORKS? So we know that those children were saved. Not the bodies, but the souls. “What doth it profit if you inherit the whole world and lose your soul?” God does all things for His will, which is all good. God did not create satan as you think of satan. He created a beautiful angel, Lucifer, the morning star, the light bearer. And He also gave him free will. So when satan became jealous of God’s glory and power, he tried to become as God(just like he told Eve to do).
Yes, God wills everyone to be saved, because he loves us. But he would not be a JUST God if he saved the people that reject him, do evil and abominable things, worship inanimate objects, persecute his prophets, etc. He wants everyone to be saved and to be with Him, but he also gave us free will. JOHN 12: 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself [et ego si exaltatus fuero a terra omnia traham ad me ipsum]. Yes, He draws all to Him, but He also makes it VERY clear that not all men are saved. 1Corinthians 15:22 And as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive [et sicut in Adam omnes moriuntur ita et in Christo omnes vivificabuntur]. Yes, all IN CHRIST. All who FOLLOW Christ. Your interpretation does not make sense. How can you be in Christ if you reject Him(reject the will of the Father)?
2Corinthians 5 :19 For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing to them their sins. And he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation [quoniam quidem Deus erat in Christo mundum reconcilians sibi non reputans illis delicta ipsorum et posuit in nobis verbum reconciliationis]. That does not mean again that the whole world will be saved no matter what. It means that through Christ ALL MEN CAN BE RECONCILED, AND BE FORGIVEN, no matter what sins they may have committed. That does not mean that all men will choose to be reconciled with God. Now look a couple verses later: 5: 21 Him, who knew no sin, he hath made sin for us: that we might be made the justice of God in him. Now ‘might’ and ‘will’ have very different meanings. Matthew 3 10 For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 5 20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 6 15 But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.
Matthew 7 13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. 7 14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! If you haven’t noticed there are plenty of examples just in this part of the book of Matthew that clearly show that not only is salvation not guaranteed to all, but VERY FEW will find it. I agree with you that nobody is guaranteed salvation now. Even if you find the grace of God and the Holy Spirit you can still fall from grace. But you can still be reconciled with God again. St Paul worked out his salvation with ‘fear and trembling’. You make the same mistakes that you accuse Christian denominations of doing: You are passing your PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of Scripture as TRUTH. 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 3 :15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, 16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. This is what all Christian denominations do(save Catholicism). Catholicism has the whole Bible(Septuagint & deuterocanonicals) and the writings and Tradition passed down from the apostles and their successors(e.g. St. Ignatious was appointed Bishop of Antioch by St. Peter the apostle). If you are looking for Truth and not dead ends(as I was) you will find it in the traditional (pre-VII council) Catholic faith(as I have). The writings of the early Christians like Ignatious are beautiful and can help you understand the mindset of the early Christian and help you put things into context. I hope this helps you, and you will be in my prayers.
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Didn't I reply to this already?
I am new so maybe my reply didn't submit. -
i do feel sorry for you and hope you find truth one day
sorry but according to the bible, God created ALL things. According to you and your opinion god created NOT all things. the scriptures are clear but like many religions, you all interpret them differently because you are taught to believe the way you do.
next, like all religions and all gods. you can't provide a shred of evidence to prove your god is real or your opinion of god.
like i tell others. my goal is to educate kids/teens on logical and critical thinking with respect to religion. we can look at the history of religion and see how it is all invented. we can look at the 16 saviours that came before jesus and were all born to virigins just like jesus, but born before him. look at all the other gods before jesus with the same kind of story. and you think your jesus is original and real?
you are lost if you believe any of them are real.
but maybe you had some evidence to show us all your version of god is real? maybe? I can promise you that you do not. I can promise you that your god can actually do nothing but he claims in this bible to create all things. yet you don't even believe him that he created all things. you define for yourself what he can and cannot do and then make excuses for what you do not want to beleive. it is that simple.
so now you tell us that your God didn't create all things and that even if jesus can do nothing but for the father and he staed others can do nothing but for the father, you claim you can. wow. what a delusion. -
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When did I say He did not create ALL things? He gave us free will, so we may choose even to deny His very existence. Did you even read my post? Oh and don't start me on the Jesus/pagan myth thing; if you are such a critical thinker you would know how inaccurate this is e.g the virgin birth' parts in pagan myths were not added until after the ressurection of Christ.
And how about refuting my arguments against you instead of attacking me personally? Did no one ever tell you that personal attacks just give credence to the other side of the arguement? Do you want evidence or are you just trying to mock me more? I suggest you research Eucharistic miracles, the incorruptable bodies of the Saints, resurection from the dead, and the Stigmatists. Yes, my Church has thousands of years worth of evidence of God's existence. But I don't think you will bother, because it will disrupt YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM. You have so much anger and hatred against religion that you have made it your own religion. And you, being a 'high priest' of your religion are out to shove YOUR belief system down everyone else's throats. Is that fair? Show me one shred of evidence that God does not exist. How do you suppose we got here? I think the law of conservation of energy has your belief system beat already. I will keep you in my prayers. -
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no free will
Read the scriptures:
[1] "To every thing there is a season [appointed time],and a time to every purpose [matter or event] under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
AND:
[2] "I know that, whatsoever God does...NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it" (Ecc. 3:14).
"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).
"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).
“…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).
“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…” (Rom. 11:36).
“And ALL THINGS are of God…” (II Cor. 5:;18).
“…calls those things which be NOT, as though they WERE” (Rom. 4:17).
“Declaring the END from the BEGINNING…” (Isa. 46:10).
“For in Him we LIVE, and MOVE, and have our BEING [Gk: ‘we ARE’—we exist]…” (Acts 17:28).
All energy, all matter, all creation, and all humans are in God. We can only “live and move… IN HIM.” And this is why:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
You can't even say jesus is lord of your own free will. it is not up to you.
"...no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit."
sorry, you don't even have free will to do that. I even gave you scripture and a story that showed jesus telling the disciples it is not their will that will be done. They denied jesus, even when they stated they wouldn't. no free will in that one either
"Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, YOU SHALL DENY ME thrice" (Ver. 34).
what happened folks? we know that these disciples thought they all had free will and they thought they would never deny their jesus. let us see what happened.
"Peter said unto Him, Though I should DIE WITH THEE, YET WILL I NOT DENY THEE. Likewise also said ALL THE DISCIPLES" (Ver. 35).
They all stated they wouldn't...go figure.
it is all according to the will of God. there is no free will in that statement.
See if you can find free will in this scripture?
"In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, of any human] Who WORKS ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL" (Eph. 1:11).
I didn't see it. i see God's will. but not man's.
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the FATHER IN ME? The WORDS that I speak unto you I speak NOT OF MYSELF; but the Father that dwells in Me, HE DOES THE WORKS" (John 14:10).
"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is NOT MINE, but HIS THAT SENT ME. If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of GOD, or whether I speak of myself " (John 7:16-17).
"...IN [Greek is ‘in’ not ‘by’] Him [Christ] is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth..." (Col. 1:16).
"For OUT [the Greek is ‘out’ not ‘of’] of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR [Greek is ‘for’ not ‘to’] is ALL" (Rom. 11:36).
Wow, seems i can provide several scriptures that show you have no free will.
"God is operating ALL in all" (I Cor. 12:6)
"Yet ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
apparently all is of him...including evil.
did you notice that word "operating"? look it up...it means "to control the function". if god is controlling the functions ALL in all, then you have no free will.
again:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
that is right, even your own steps are not of YOU. You can believe yourself or the word of God. seems you don't believe the word of this god you have
the bible even stated "none seek god".
if god planned it, and put it all into motion and determined the end from the beginning, then you have no free will.
sorry.
But maybe you have a scripture that tells us NOT all things are from him. Or God Doesn't operate all in all? do you? i didn't think so.
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THE HOLY GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO ST. LUKE
18 8 I say to you that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth? -
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In the End, ALL will believe
Like the bible states: "every tongue shall confess that jesus christ is lord". How does one get saved? that is right, they confess jesus christ is lord and believe. Of course, they will believe when the all mighty, all powerful, overwhelming power of God stands before them. God said they would and they will confess, according to scripture.
Then, we have scripture after scripture that states the world will be saved or all will be saved or the whole world will be saved. we even have scripture that says all will be saved "especially those that believe"....meaning all will be saved.
but if you want to read the book of revelations like many do, and claim god is going to torture children with fire, then go ahead. but the book of revelations is not literal. it is symbolic and the bible makes that clear in many ways for which i have detailed already.
seems christians believe in their own ideas and ignore the word of god.
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look, you do not have free will if god planned it. god already knows what you will do before you do it. because he planned it from the beginning. i provided you with the scripture to prove it. but if you don't like his words, just tell him. good luck with that one.
virgin births came long before christ. read history as it is full of the stories long before christ. what argument did you have against me? i am not attacking you personally, i am only stating some facts. i have my view, you have your view. my view seems to have a great impact on the teens that read it. i receive several emails about those pamplets and they want to know more.
i do not need to mock you and really, you have no evidence. if you had a shred of evidence, it wouldn't be called a belief or faith. you think it is real but you have not proof or it would be a fact.
Every church has evidence and every cult has evidence ...in their own eyes.
nice that you make the judgment that i have anger and atred against religion but i guess that is your personal attack. go figure. my "belief" system doesn't kill anyone. your believe system has a history of killing, support for slavery and even hitler claimed to be doing the work of his christian god.
if you claim there is a god, then the onus of proof is ON YOU. i cannot prove that god is not real. you cannot prove that you don't harm children. prove you don't do it. so, if you can't prove you don't do it, can i claim you do it? without proof? don't be silly. you are just making more excuses.
how did we get here? i don't know. you don't know. to make up a god story ....actually there are many....doesn't make prove anything.
how do you know my magic dog didn't create all things. prove he didn't. see how silly that statement is? not just silly, but i would be stupid if i made such a claim.
you can keep praying for me. i have an idea. if you have faith the size of a mustard seed. please pray for all the hungry children in the world that god will feed them. I again, promise you that i will not wake in the morning and notice your prayer answered. yet, whatever you ask, you will receive, if you believe, you can say to a mountain ..be moved. seems you don't even actually believe any of it. seems not a single christian believes this as we see many hungry kids. but then again, maybe you just don't care if they die of hunger. one or the other. oh yah, i guess we have another option, ...there is no god. or at least, not your form of god.
just as we have NEVER seen an amputee healed. NOT ONE. good is too busy healing people of things for which we have no evidence we can link it to god. but it is easy to make the claim he did it. unless it required actual proof.
i hope that one day you will find the truth and release your anger. just because i have the truth, doesn't mean you have to hate me and have anger towards you for trying to help you break the long term brainwashing you have received in life. i just want to help you so you too can have a life as wonderful as what i have come to experience.
i will keep hoping for you to be free in life.
take care and stop hatting. hate only makes life unhappy. -
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In nomine Patris, et Filii. . . .
I asked you for proof God was not real and you answered with challenging me to prove I don't harm children. . . ? That is an unfair argument. You should not be saying to people that if their God exists they should be able to wave a magic wand and stop all suffering on the earth. Do you know that the Church is the largest charitable organization in the world? What atheist groups have millions of people taking care of the sick, diseased, and underprivileged all over the earth? Are you lobbying to the UN to stop the sanctions against governments that are starving those children? Did you ever think that just being an atheist takes a giant leap of faith to believe that there is no God? And how can you say you have the truth when you yourself admitted that you have no proof?
Why are you still passing off your private interpretation of Scripture as Truth but everyone else's interpretation has to be wrong? I have faith in my interpretation because I have the Tradition to go with it - e.g. Oral Tradition had to accompany the Torah and Tanakh for the Jews or else it would NOT make any sense. So stop throwing 'proof' from the Bible at me. You just told me in a previous post that Knowledge of good and evil = evil. You are terribly confused as to what Catholic Christians believe(I am assuming you used to be one of the 38,000+ Protestant denominations).
Ok back to the ‘Jesus myth’: Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism "pagan" fail. Catholic doctrines are neither borrowed from the mystery religions nor introduced from pagans after the conversion of Constantine. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other. This cannot be done. Until you do that why should I listen to you? I can only speak for Catholicism though, because we know now that the chief architects of the Reformation belonged to occult societies; and many rituals of the Latter-day saints, for example, are stolen directly from occult rituals. I do not speak for all self professed ‘Christians’, so if you want to make a connection between paganism and their particular denomination, I cannot defend them. You should not be so biased against Christianity when you are claiming to want the truth.
Do you want links for the evidence or not? Have you ever heard of Padre Pio? He was the most photographed person in the world. He had the visible stigmata for 50 years - How does one lose a cup of blood every single day for over 50 years and live? Do you know what kind of investigations these miracles have to go through by the Church? Did you know that Secular and Atheist scientists are welcome to investigate? I knew you never looked this up. http://www.michaeljournal.org/eucharist3.htm Are you saying that even if I show you even a ‘shred’ of proof it still won’t be proof for you? Why did you ask then?
By the way, I have seen plenty of amputees healed, and I’m sure you have too. Do you mean you’ve never seen an amputee SPONTANEOUSLY REGENERATE THEIR LIMBS? There’s a big difference there.
By the way I was not ‘conditioned’ into a Church, or brought up into my church. I was looking for truth as an adult and I found it.
If Hitler was so "Christian" why did he send all of the clergy to death camps? You should know(being such a critical thinker and all) he was doing like all politicians do, pretend to be religious for popularity with the masses(most politicians are Freemasons/occultists with ties to the CFR/socialism). I’m so sick of people blaming Christianity for Nazis and the such. It doesn’t make any sense. Do you not know that the mass murder starts when atheists and occultists get into power and persecute religious? Remember Stalin? Remember the Bolsheviks? Remember the French Revolution? Here’s some info for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians You are terribly confused and I will keep you in my prayers. You need to find the love of God in your heart because your 'truth' will never make you happy.
"The [secular]media have no idea what a real Catholic is. If they did, they would scream for his martyrdom, they would scream for his skin."
-H.E. Bishop Williamson, 2005
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Onus of proof is on you.
It is not unfair if i ask you to prove something you cannot prove. No more than it is unfair for you to make a claim you cannot prove.
I find it amusing when a person makes a claim, for which they cannot prove, and then attempts to tell others that because we cannot prove their claim is not real, therefore it is real. This is typical behavior from those that believe in superstition or any of the other cults. Again, the onus of proof is on those that make a claim. If you make an extraordinary claim, then you should have extraordinary evidence to support your claim. You have NONE and I have seen you list NONE. If I claim my Dog farts magic dust that heals then I should be considered rather ignorant unless I am able to prove such supernatural abilities. Then, when someone tells me I have not proofed, I can just say I do have proof but if you do not believe, you cannot see him or the proof. You have to have faith to see my invisible magic Dog that is everywhere. Again, that would just be complete ignorance on my part, especially if I expected people should actually accept such absurd claims.
Lets just list some of the claims made by religious types for which you have NO PROOF: There is a God – NO PROOF, There is a Satan – NO PROOF, There is a Son of God – NO PROOF, There is a Holy Spirit – NO PROOF, There is a Heaven _ NO PROOF, There is a Hell – NO PROOF, That many will be tortured this God with Fire – NO PROOF, That God can heal – NO PROOF (again, he never heals an amputee), That a snake talked – NO PROOF, That Jesus walked on water – NO PROOF, That a man lived in the belly of a whale – NO RPOOF, That Jesus flew up to heaven bodily _NO PROOF, That Jesus rose from the DEAD – NO PROOF, That Noah put 2 of every creature on an ark – NO PROOF….etc.
What religious types do is make a claim and from that claim attach many other claims. They feel if they claim God is real, therefore all the other things they claim are real and true with respect to the original claim. NOT a shred of evidence required.
Free Will? NOT if the bible is correct and God planned everything from the beginning, if all is before ordained, all is predestined according to HIS will. Notice it is not according to your will.
[1] "To every thing there is a season [appointed time],and a time to every purpose [matter or event] under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
AND:
[2] "I know that, whatsoever God does...NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it" (Ecc. 3:14).
"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).
"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).
The two scriptures alone make it impossible to have free will, according to the bible. Then we could list many more scriptures and examples as I have already listed to show it is not up to man but up to God. Again, even Jesus stated he can do NOTHING but for the will of God. God stated “his will be done” , “his desires be done”. Not man’s will and desires. Jesus stated that you can do NOTHING but for the father.
“…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).
“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…” (Rom. 11:36).
“And ALL THINGS are of God…” (II Cor. 5:;18).
“…calls those things which be NOT, as though they WERE” (Rom. 4:17).
“Declaring the END from the BEGINNING…” (Isa. 46:10).
“For in Him we LIVE, and MOVE, and have our BEING [Gk: ‘we ARE’—we exist]…” (Acts 17:28).
All energy, all matter, all creation, and all humans are in God. We can only “live and move… IN HIM.” And this is why:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
Yes, what I present would be my interpretation of the bible. Just as what you present is your interpretation. I cannot prove my view is correct any more than you can prove your view is correct or the over 300 other denominations of the Christian Religion can prove their other variations are correct. It is just a claim we all make. I believe and have been able to show that kids that have been taught the traditional Christian view take hold of what I present and it makes logical sense to them. Also, they are very happy to have another view for which they can discuss with parents and friends in school. Nothing wrong with people debating the topic and actually searching for truth.
I also find it rather interesting that Christian call God love, mercy, compassion, peace, just and so on. Yet this very same God has instructed others to kill, even dash babies to the stones, rip a child from the womb (abortion), drowned most ALL life (to include babies and bunnies) in a torturous flood and threatens (according to many) to torture billions with fire, day after day of pain and screams as God watches on. Christians praise this being, give him glory, worship him…..this kind of behavior is acceptable to Christians because it is done in the name of God or by God. Hitler killed millions, in the name of God and many thought it was the hand of God directing him. I call that sick and vile.
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mudgod
July 27
July 28
Mudgod
You say it has to be "his way". According to the scriptures, it is ALL his way. He planned it ALL from the beginning, to include the ending. We cannot Disobey him because it is all "before ordained". You cannot choose good or seek god, according to the scripture. It is not "of you" but is it "of him". You can do "nothing" but for the father. Even Jesus stated he could do "NOTHING but for the father"."You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
AND
"There is NONE that seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11
"For it is GOD which works IN you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
If God is real, and the bible is really the word of God and if he is ALL powerful, ....it all shows that it is according to his will and not the will of men.
So, if a child is molested, it is "of him" for "All things are of God". It is "all according to his will".
If you get cancer and suffer a terrible death: "…and what have you that you did not RECEIVE….?" (I Cor. 4:7).
That would make him All Powerful if this is true. Scripture supports what I have stated and he does say "everything is of him". and that he "operates all in all".
mudgod
July 28
July 29
Remember:
You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
AND
"There is NONE that seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11.
mudgod
July 30
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No, it is not my opinion, it is in the Bible. Many times God tells us to choose. We have free will and can choose to do right or wrong. We can even decide for ourselves what we believe is right or wrong. Adam and Eve had choices (unfortunately they chose wrong). We have choices. You claim to go by the Bible. Do you kepp God's commandments the way they are documented? Is God #1? Do you keep the seventh day sabbath holy? If not, you are exercising your choice to do what you want instead of what God wants you to do. God does call whom He will, but it is only a little flock right now. God cares about your choices but He won't direct your choices unless you ask Him to.
July 29
"Without doubt there is no faith" I understand, but with all this doubt i find faith rather doubtful.
July 29
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Here is one scripture i will post again along with others that demonstrate what I am stating:
"God our Saviour; Who WILL have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." I Tim. 2:4
Notice again the word “ALL”. Notice it didn’t say some, or part, or only those that believe a specific version or translation or denomination of a religion. It clearly stated ALL.
Now, I get some Christians to tell me the word WILL is really to be interpreted as “desires”. Guess what? The bible (“god’s word) states that God’s WILL, God’s Desires and God’s Pleasures WILL be done. However, let us not take just that one scripture as proof, let us look at a few more.
What do you think?
TeChNoWC
July 30
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Remember to always look at the context of a verse. This verse talks about the salvation of Israel, and also that God can never owe anything to man, because He gave man everything. I cannot refute this verse on the grounds that you use it to support your doctrine, however, this verse alone I do not believe is proof of your claim, as it seems to be referring to, contextually, GOOD things, and not evil. It leaves the question still up in the air.
Also note that we consider, at large, Satan to be a counterfeit. He does not create. Therefore all creation was of God, yet Satan bends it to another form. So all things, to the exclusion of evil (possibly, I won't just assume this outright) are, as you say, created by God. But perversions of this creation are mere counterfeits through evil. Sex is of God. Eating food is of God. Medicine, law, war, we could all consider as being of God. Even I would consider hate, though many preachers will tell you God can't hate because He is love. Yes He is love, but the Bible also says that God hates many things, that being basically sin. Hate however can be used for evil, as can just about all that God created.
"To every thing there is a season (an appointed time), and a time to every purpose (event) under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
This does not mean that God orchestrated it, but rather that God does allow it and authorise it (in as much that it CAN occur, not that it should occur), and that it all has A purpose of some sort; and that God can mould things to His purpose.
I know that, whatsoever God does...NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it" (Ecc. 3:14).
Does not prove that God does everything, but rather that whatever God does do, is for Him to be credited for. Evil is not a thing that it has value nor adds to the kingdom of God. It may CAUSE or be a factor in such in some way, but in essence, is not.
“And ALL THINGS are of God…” (II Cor. 5:;18).
Not only did you take this out of context, you changed the verse. It says all THIS is from God, in reference to what was previously stated, basically that being SALVATION.
“…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).
Can be read as everything that is of the counsel of His own will, and that He turns everything around for the divine purpose of His will. In saying, that He pre-destined our salvation from sin, and even amongst a world of evil turned that evil on its head so that it would be a sign of my necessity for salvation. That the devil's counterfeiting and plan for our damnation, that all his efforts canbe disrupted and turned around for the will of God.
“Declaring the END from the BEGINNING…” (Isa. 46:10).
Yes, God does have that authority.
“For in Him we LIVE, and MOVE, and have our BEING (‘we ARE’—we exist)…” (Acts 17:28).
Yet God was saying this because He WANTS us to not worship idols. This is still not definitive proof of your doctrine, but simply shows that God is the 'author' of mankind. That without God's intervention, to whatever degree that may be, we would not be able to be alive, nor would we even 'be'.
"...IN Him [Christ] is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth..." (Col. 1:16).
Yes, again, the concept that God created ALL, Satan simply counterfeits. God also allows all (not endorses). God created the demons, but when He created them they weren't demons, they became that of their own right. We weren't (initially, tracing back to Adam) created as sinners, but we became that of our own right, and by the seed of our corrupted fathers.
"God is operating ALL in all" (I Cor. 12:6)
Again, you took this one out of context and changed it. You left out the word 'men' off the end of the verse, and also the verse referred to the works of the Spirit, and if you look at how it is worded, it doesn't necessitate ALL MEN WHO EVER LIVED AND EVER WILL LIVED. Taking it this literally we could assume God doesn't work in women. It meant that all who would enable God to, all of their works can be different, yet all of them are credited to the one same God, and He did the works through them because they surrendered to Him. 'No longer I that lives but Christ in me'.
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
The word here better translates to disaster, not evil. A 'bad' or 'terrible' thing, for the work of good, but not an 'evil' thing. Like Jesus turning the tables - God is a destroyer of evil because evil is not of Him, and therefore true, eternal destruction to all of mankind - whereas the destruction of the Lord brings reproach, conviction, repentance, resoration and salvation. I allow God to destroy that that is within me that is evil. to 'purge me of all sin and unrighteousness' for His glory.
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil” (Isa. 45:7).
Again, the Hebrew word here is better translated to disaster, not evil. Yes God does create darkness through the absence of light. Whether this be in mention to Him withdrawing light where man no longer wants it (of his free will), or that, as others attain to, there is a holy 'dark side of God' (as to whatever that attains to I am not sure, but it is not synonymous with evil) or that he orchestrates the night, or it is more of a metaphor for disaster, as the verse does indicate, for His purposes. But it does not mean evil.
“And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow… the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:9).
The knowledge of evil is different to evil itself. God has the knowledge of evil; He is aware of its existence, He knows it and all its form, better than probably Satan himself, simply because He is the all-knowing God. But this does not mean that He has fellowship with evil. The knowledge of evil does make one open to be able to commit it, as Genesis would allude to, and why the Bible tells us that 'in regards to evil, be like infants' (unaware of how to commit it).
“It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Literal Old Testament).
That sounds more like what someone has derived from the verse than the verse itself. The verse is actually about Solomon devoting himself to studying wisdom, and that God has placed a burden on man. This is not 'evil'. No where does it mention evil nor say what you wrote.
“I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11).
Better translated to calamity.
Jeremiah 4:6 - better translated to disaster.
I think for a lot of these verses you have gone onto Bible gateway, found a word that might mean evil, and looked it up under all the different Bible translations, found ONE (Fred Phelpsian Bible
July 30
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that is your opinion. this is not fact
You can make excuses for not believing what is clearly stated in the bible.So,if god didn't create evil then he didn't create all things. If you do what you want with free will, then God didn't plan, and before ordained and predistine all things for which he said he approved of.
so you contradict your god in order to believe the lie you have been taught. god stated he sends lying spirits and he would do that perfectly without you even knowing you are lied too. but i am sure you can give an excuse for why you are not lied too.
bottom line, your god is a myth. you can provide not a shred of evidence to prove it or show that it is real.
no i present yet one other version of your christian faith with all their denominations. yet you can not prove any of the gods is true or not true. buddha is just as real as your god. you just happened to be taught about your god and think your god is real. you didn't bother to question it beause if you did, you would have looked at the other religions and then proven they are not real or proven yours is real. becasue everyone believes just as you do that their religon is real. sorry, but you can't all be right.
i can promise you that you are all wrong.
but if you want to worship a god the mass murdered most all life on earth and praise him as moral for this threat to torture all men that he created, then go ahead. i don't care. i work to develop pamphlets to help kids question and make logical decisions. and it works well.
TeChNoWC
July 31
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Sure, I will gladly take your word for it.
You had a good point, but unfortunately the Bible oozes with the fact that God hates sin. I don't even need to quote a verse, there are plenty old and new testament. Not one verse in the Bible condones it.
Evil is an absence, it is not a creation. It is like saying that God created darkness or cold... Sure maybe He did, but He didn't have to for them to exist. They are merely the absence of what He did create.
The Bible does not say that God created evil nor does evil. The Bible does say that God created all things, but evil is not a 'thing' that it should be created. God had a knowledge of good and evil. One could even say, in hypothesis, that maybe good and evil have been around as long as God has (eternal). Good being the aspect of God and evil being non-God. But all 'things' that are creatable, are created by God. There is support to believe that there are things uncreated because God is one of them.
July 31
if you say so
you say evil is the absence and not a creation. give me a break. the bible even states he created evil and he himself clearly has murdered most all life in a flood, i call murder evil. he clearly ...according to christians...will torture billions. in my book murder and torture are evil and none of that would be here if he didn't create it all.The bible specifically states he created evil and the wicked for evil and the waster to destroy. you can make any excuse you want to claim god didn't create evil but scripture after scripture shows he does it, instrusted it, created it and everything includes everything. play with your words all you want to excuse the evil your god does and apparelty promises to do and had done and has instructed. killing babies, is evil...even if your god does it.
god even stated " if evil has happened, have i not caused it"
you are doing your best to rationalize what you have been taught. that is expected. anyone following any cult does exactly the same thing.
August 2
Heh
I concurAugust 2
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interesting the claims they make
it is interesting they want to claim there is some invisible man that does all these invisible and supernatural things and then they want us to prove it is not real. I could just as well say my dog is invisible and heals people, but only if you believe and only if you truly believe can you see him. pretty stupid for me to make such a claim for which I cannot prove. Just as it is silly for them to make a claim they cannot prove.August 3
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ALL is of God
According to the bible, ALL is of God. That includes ...ummmm....ALL? If someone dies, All is of God. If someone suffers, "all is of god". If a child is harmed, "all is of God" ....not only is it OF HIM but he watches it happens, and he chooses to do NOTHING when he hears the cries for help and the end of pain and suffering. Christians call this God moral. I do not believe the torture or suffering of children and then to let it continue would be moral. This is not how i was raised. Christians accept torture in the name of God. If God does it, they claim it is moral. even when the bible shows god tells others to "dash babies to the stones" and "rip the child from the womb". wow. Sorry Christians, this is NOT moral.TeChNoWC
August 4
There are a few verses I have come across in the Bible mentioning dashing children against the rocks, and if I remember correctly, all but one were referring to the immorality of the other nations (no wonder God wanted their destruction). One other verse, (correct me if I am wrong), is a prophet citing his own anger against these nations and basically saying we should do the same to them. It was never commanded, mandated nor recommended; more of a moral outcry.
I do not remember the Bible ever talking about ripping babies from the womb, other than what many Christians today use as evidence that GOD HATES ABORTION (in as such that would denote the verse had a negative connotation towards such an act)? Please show me the verse(s) with references where this information is located.
August 4
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Out of Context?
Are you telling me that you have scripture that states "NOT all is of God" or "NOT all is according to his will" or "God DID NOT plan all things"If God killed people in his flood to include pregnant women, then he committed abortion. Are you telling me God did NOT kill most all life on earth as his Word stated?
Apparently you didn't read the bible:
Hosea 13:16 ... because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
Here are a few more evils of God for which God claims in Scripture "all is of God".
Isaiah 13:16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:18 Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants nor will they look with compassion on children.
Hosea 9:16 "Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring."
Psalm 137:8-9 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Apparently you failed to read the bible and my comments with scriptural facts and notice how it is IN context. If God states everything, all is of him. Not much context to get out of those two all inclusive words. If god stated you and even Jesus can do NOTHING but for him,...not much context needed.
I even provided scriptures to prove evil is of God.
Do you need it?
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil” (Isa. 45:7).
even your own steps are not of yourself:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
You can't even choose god of your own will and none seek him.
"You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
"There is NONE that seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11
You cannot go to god of your own free will, he has to "draw" you to him. Not your choice:
"NO MAN CAN COME TO ME [by his own free will choice] except the Father which has sent me DRAW HIM [Greek: DRAG HIM] and I WILL raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).
It is god that works in you and me and all people to do HIS will. According to scripture:
"For it is GOD which works IN you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
You are not saved by your own doing...it is not your free will to be saved. It is all up to God. Read the scriptures:
"For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that [that ‘FAITH’] is NOT OF YOURSELVES [well where does it come from then, if not from US?]; it is the GIFT OF GOD" (Eph. 2:8).
There is NOTHING that you have that you have not received from God:
"…and what have you that you did not RECEIVE….?" (I Cor. 4:7).
If the bible were true, maybe the following scripture was posted for those that believe like you do:
"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God,[like:‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION" (Mark 7:7 & 9)
TeChNoWC
August 4
I think I already addressed this above, but if you would like I would look into it more extensively.
"If God killed people in his flood to include pregnant women, then he committed abortion. Are you telling me God did NOT kill most all life on earth as his Word stated?"
I already covered this elsewhere on the site, which is why you need to stop posting the same thing everywhere or your posts will be deleted on the basis that you are spamming.
"Apparently you didn't read the bible:
Hosea 13:16 ... because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
Here are a few more evils of God for which God claims in Scripture "all is of God".
Isaiah 13:16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:18 Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants nor will they look with compassion on children."
Taken from http://www.studybibleforum.com/spages/Hosea.htmV
"I can see why an unbeliever or a seeker would be shocked at the book of Hosea. There is a lot to be shocked it during this time. The people of the Northern Kingdom had turned completely away from one true God, even to the point of sacrificing there own children to a false god called BAAL. The book of Hosea is God prophecy to the Northern Kingdom warning them to change their ways and to do it quickly, or face the consequences of their prideful actions. You can see God concern and hope for the Northern Kingdom although Hosea, but Chp 14 pretty more answers the question about, is God being cruel or not. God is willing to Help, Heal and forgive those who turn back to Him. As far as what we see in:
Hos 13:16 “Sama'ria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. “
Again this is prophecy about what was about to happen, which was the invasion of Shalmaneser king of Assyria. (You read about this in 2 Kings 17:5) So prideful and sure of themselves the Northern Kingdom held out for three year against Shalmaneser, but after that Shalmaneser took his revenge on them by sacking and plundering the cities, take the population into slavery and trying to end any future claim or inheritances as a people by kill the young/unborn."
I think it is more a consequence of their sin and independence from God; a warning from God that is very graphic for the reason that He really wants them to know what is going to happen to them if they do not come into repentance, not something that God has done directly (in this instance anyway).
Let me finish here but I will get back to your quotes (those I have not addressed). Your post is quite long, need some sleep soon and will prayerfully ponder over the remainder in the meantime
August 4
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which god
we keep going back to your god. which one is he. is he the real one? fact is, god claimed he did all and does all. no, you don't have scripture that states "not all is of god". but i have scripture that states "yet all is of god". and many more supporting scriptures and examples.August 4
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something to think about
you make claims of your god. your claims are based on what you are taught from birth about god and what you happen to learn from the bible or others around you and you make your interpretation of the bible. I make mine. My claims are just as valid but happen to be supported by many scriptures. and yes, i can provide many more supporting my statements.your claim has no more merit than claims made by any other religion.
now, when you have some solid evidence, then we can maybe start to put the links together and determine which god is real and which claims are true.
there were people like you hundreds of years ago. they would claim that others are witches and should be burned or killed for not being like you. for not believing in your version of god. yes, those people, like you, thought 100 percent they were right. yet they were wrong. I do not make a claim in a god but only give another version of the story which happens to be supported by scripture.
August 4
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i do understand
do you realize how many christians have gone back and read scripture and then came back to me with yet a different explaination of what they thought scriptures meant? do you think you are the ONE that has the scripture correct and maybe we should follow your way?don't be so proud. you didn't even realize the scripture of god ripping open a pregnant woman so i doubt if you are not aware of it and haven't studied the bible enough to know what else i have stated, you will likely need to go to yet another link to get your answers given to you.
search the net, you will find many different opinions on scripture. i know, you got the right version....am i correct. haha.
i only give yet another version which happens to follow logic and scripture. but you are welcome to look up what you want and then give us your opinion.
TeChNoWC
August 4
August 4
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I have beaten nothing
I do not try to beat anything. I only give another opinion. I and you can both go in and explain away most any interpretation. I can give you an explanation of hell fire and the second death out of revelations and it would make perfect since for a loving and compassionate God. But most christians will deny this and prefer to claim god is going to torture billions with fire. the threat is thrown around in most all discussions with christians on their form of God.so, what you will be able to do, as many will do, they will look at the scripture, find the answers that best fit what they believe or want to believe and then present them as fact.
But really, there is very little argument against a GOD that states "yet ALL is of God" or that states "God operates all in all" the examples and the scriptures are abundant.
The scriptures I could post go completely against the christian idea of God. yet i can post scriptures and explain them in a way that this god would truly be shown as love, even if all is of him. christian will deny it and go search for a reason to deny it.
really, if the bible stated god planned it all, there is little left for the imagination.
TeChNoWC
August 12
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Comparing me to such people is like comparing you to Pol Pot. Don't do it.
""Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God,[like:‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION" (Mark 7:7 & 9)"
If you are claiming that I do not love you, then I am sorry I have not shown you such love. I do love you mate; and you have much to offer even me in terms of my spiritual growth through harsh critiquing of my walk with God. I crave it, and it is good. Thank you for such blessings that you bring; and if you like, I will pray for you.
"Hosea 9:16 "Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.""
God threatened to cause a famine of infertility on Ephraim for their continual sin. He was no longer willing to bring children among those that would only lead such children astray, so God was denying to breathe life into the womb, and 'slay' the biological occupant (cause the flesh to die). This is not murderous abortion in as much as abortion today would not be should the growing baby not be being formed by the Lord in His image, with His breath of life. However, God orchestrates life and He demonstrates this in this verse to humble the people. Even though man and woman come together, God can withold life giving.
Even so, God has the power to take away life from the evil because HE IS JUDGE. If He appointed others to do so in the form of capital punishment, then this is not murder. However today I am inclined to believe, as the New Covenant enables the fallen to be restored and the restored to be sanctified, that capital punishment is not the Lord's will. However, He reserves the right to take life and give it as justice sees fit. He is God.
"Psalm 137:8-9 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
This is a tricky one, and I do remember coming across it before. Yet as I explained above, I think that this verse is an indicator of moral outrage. Babylon had committed so many atrocities against Israel that the writer of the psalms was fed up, and felt that, due what Babylon had done, that the Israelite people would be so damaged, beaten and enraged that they would delight in killing even the babies of their adversaries. I have seen many a people with such anger before, and yet we ourselves have never experienced what the Israelite people went through.
Whether this expression was Godly or not I do not know; and this is merely my interpretation, so true I could be wrong; but still picking and choosing verses, warping them to produce efficacy of your own morality and misleading the intent of such verses can lead to some forms of self deception. If you wish to disprove the Bible by the Bible, you still have to work within the moral parameters that the Bible itself attests to, and not your own; for all you have done then is simply proven that you do not like the Bible.
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