There are 8 choices, 19 votes for Joy Division's debate

Is Communism really bad?

  • Nope.

    A pure communism would involve everyone sharing everything equally and everyone providing a service for others. This, of course, can not happen in reality because most people do not always have pure intentions, and it is absolutely necessary that everyone have pure intentions for communism to be successful. The same goes for anarchy. Both forms of government (or lack of) would be perfect, could we only attain it.

    31%  Voted for by Morgaine, justonewish, CrazyRebel, looking4realtruth, Rosh. (6 total)
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  • yeah

    hell yeah it is, communism! everyone would make the same amount of money!! how can a guy who works at mcdonalds, spitting in fries, get as much as a pro sports player?? some deserve more than others, some are winners, some are losers we deserve what we deserve, not what everyone else is getting

    21%  Voted for by Luciferschild, RothMcVeReagan, Eye-Beam, petethemeat.
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  • .

    I don't think communism is bad; i just don't think it's better than capitalism. I don't like the idea that i can't go buy myself something extra with the money I earned doing extra hours at my job. I also don't like the idea that my personal efforts won't have a bearing on what i can do for myself- for example, if i graduate from high school and get a job as a waitress, i won't be able to afford a really really nice house, but if i graduate, earn a ph.d, make good money doing a job i really really enjoy, i could purchase a wonderful house on a big lot. with a capitalist system, the efforts i put into my life are reflected in the quality of my life, and i like that. i like that it's MY efforts supporting me, and not a standardized support system. with communism those things won't necessarily be true.

    just my personal opinion!

    10%  Voted for by gobuggy99, Eye-Beam.
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  • NO!!!

    Joseph Stalin once said “Democracy in the USSR…is democracy for all”. Granted now, Stalin went “mad” at the end of his so called “reign”, he had some very good ideas for the Soviet Union. However, Stalin’s “democracy” was communism and if one looks at the Communist Manifesto and Communist ideology, one will see that Communism has some very good ideas, but even with hose ideas, it has become like taboo to even speak of communism. The American people have labeled communism as repressive, tyrannical, treasonous and all around immoral, but how many Americans have actually looked into communist ideology before pointing a finger? Very few. So I pose this question: Is communism really bad? I think not, and I shall prove it to the masses. First and foremost, the virtues of communism are very simple: provide the masses with a fair, equal and balanced system of government and work and to ensure that personal freedoms are kept in check.. Human nature’s natural response to this statement would be “that is a flat out lie! Look at communism under Lenin and Stalin!” However, one cannot compare true communism to Lenin and Stalin, the reason being that both went mad before the end of their reigns. Engles said it perfectly when he said: “Everything runs smoothly without soldiers, gendarmes, or police; without nobles, kings, governors, prefects, or judges; without prisons; without trials; all quarrels and disputes are settled by the whole body of those concerned (Kort 39).” That is how simple and easy communism is. They are no elongated, elaborate trials or persecutions. There is simply a meeting of those directly involved. Furthermore, communism seeks to eradicate war, famine, poverty and all the other hideousness’ that plague our society today. At a meeting at the U.N., Scott Nearing, the representative of the Communist party, said: “Abolish war by organizing the economy of the world and building up a world administrative mainly on the basis of economy; in place of the nation-state, a world state… (Leone 33) The communists are not looking to take over the world in an imperialistic manner, nor are they looking to grab the world with an iron fist. The communist are simply trying to provide social, political, and economic stability worldwide. They would achieve this by using their ingenious system of government. The whole problem with communism is that people are afraid of it. It is a fear that is unnecessary. Terror is not a core value. Nothing about communism relates to terror of the peoples. It is a free, equal, nondiscriminatory way of government. Karl Kaustky, Marxist writer, once said relating on the subject of terrorism and communism “Terrorism…begins with the abolition of every form of freedom of the press, and ends in a system of whole sale execution.” (Leone 46) Kauskty is absolutely right about terrorism. Communism does not promote this in anyway at all. Communism is fair to everyone and everything. Mikhail Krutogolov once said at a conference: “The right of soviet citizens to unite in public organizations-trade unions, cooperative societies, youth organizations, spot and defense organizations, cultural, technical and scientific societies and professional unions-is guaranteed by article 126 of the constitution of the USSR” (Leone 53) This is not to say that communism is only effective in the USSR. The principles were merely founded there. Communism can work anywhere on the globe, the key factor rests in the peoples hands. It is not the leader who makes communism not work, it is the inflexibility and stubbornness of the people. The second point that needs to be proven about communism is its ability to create an industrial and political powerhouse, one that can never be challenged. Karl Marx once said: Labor is a commodity, like any other, and its price is therefore determined by exactly the same laws that apply to other commodities. In a regime of big industry or of free competition – as we shall see, the two come to the same thing – the price of a commodity is, on the average, always equal to its cost of production. Hence, the price of labor is also equal to the cost of production of labor. (Marxist.org) This proves that in a communistic society, that labor is at the core of it all. Strong work force= strong empire/regime. Now, of course people will look upon history and insist that this is a false statement because when communist mention “work force”, people automatically think “slave labor”. Not true. The communist work force provides hard working citizens the ability to advance themselves and their communities into a progressively advancing culture of technology and science without being “forced or tortured” into working. The Communist Manifesto, written by Karl Marx and Fredric Engles, stated: The average price of wage labor is the minimum wage, i.e., that quantum of the means of subsistence which is absolutely requisite to keep the laborer in bare existence as a laborer. What, therefore, the wage laborer appropriates by means of his labor merely suffices to prolong and reproduce a bare existence. We by no means intend to abolish this personal appropriation of the products of labor, an appropriation that is made for the maintenance and reproduction of human life, and that leaves no surplus wherewith to command the labor of others. All that we want to do away with is the miserable character of this appropriation, under which the laborer lives merely to increase capital, and is allowed to live only in so far as the interest of the ruling class requires it. (anu.edu) This spells out the working world in communism. People strive to make the world more advanced and better for themselve and still get trated with the same respect as everyother person. All social status is cast aside, the people are no longer divided into poor, middle-class, and wealthy, the people would be one collective, free society. A great example of this productive society in action was once described in the Communist Manifesto: National differences and antagonism between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto. In laymen’s terms this simply means that the social boundaries that once existed are slowly being vanquished under the rule of Communism. If we, the people, pull together under one collective unit under a communist government, we can achieve wonders in our deplorable society. Finally, the point must be proven that Communism is the only ture form of government that will work successfully. The evils of capitalism must be exposed. John Reed, an American citizen who was a member of the communist party, once said in a speech: “…But why do the American capitalists promise aid and food to Armenia? Is it out of pure philanthropy? If so, let them feed the peoples of Central America and help the Negroes of America itself. No. The main reason is that there is mineral wealth in Armenia, and that it is a big reservoir of cheap labour which can be exploited by American capitalists. The American capitalists want to win the confidence of the Armenians with a view to getting their claws into Armenia and enslaving the Armenian nation. It is with this aim that American missionaries have established schools in the Near East. But there is also another very important reason: the American capitalists, together with the other capitalist nations, united in the League of Nations, are afraid that the workers and peasants of Armenia will follow the example of Soviet Russia and Soviet Azerbaidzhan, will take power and their country’s resources into their own hands, and will work for themselves, making a united front with the workers and peasants of the whole world against world imperialism. The American capitalists are afraid of a revolution in the East.” (cddc.vt.edu) This is just an example of the evils of capitalism. The capitalists are only looking out for themselves and no one else. They care nothing for the lower and middle class citizens as they call them, but only for the rich and wealthy who essentially run the country. In communism however, the dictator and his government care and look out for the entire population, leaving no one behind. Leon Trotsky, once a person against Lenin but who later joined his side, once said in his essay titled The USSR and its Defense: “Why does capitalist society find itself in a blind alley? Because it is no longer capable of developing the productive forces, either in the advanced countries or in the backward countries. The world imperialist chain was broken at its weakest link, Russia. Now we learn that in place of bourgeois society there has been established a new class society. Craipeau has not yet given it any name nor analyzed its internal laws. But that does not prevent us from seeing that the new society is progressive in comparison with capitalism, for on the basis of nationalized property the new possessing “class” has assured a development of productive forces never equaled in the history of the world. Marxism teaches us, does it not, that the productive forces are the fundamental factor of historic progress. A society which is not capable of assuring the growth of economic power is still less capable of assuring the well-being of the working masses, whatever may be the mode of distribution. The antagonism between feudalism and capitalism and the decline of the former has been determined precisely by the fact that the latter opened up new and grandiose possibilities for the stagnating productive forces. The same applies to the USSR. Whatever its modes of exploitation may be, this new society is by its very character superior to capitalist society. There you have the real point of departure for Marxist analysis!”( architexturez.net) Trotsky makes VERY valid points. When this essay was written, the U.S. and other capitalist nations were lagging far behind in forces and production. Following WWI the U.S. wanted to become isolationist like the Japanese. Woodrow Wilson was elected on a campaign promising not to enter WWI. What happened after 5 months of his reelection? War. The people can not have a indecisive person as their leader. A leader must be strong and must stand behind what he says, not change his mind all the time. The communist form of government promises equality to all peoples no matter what race or color you are. Capitalist society on the other hand has separated whites from blacks in the sixties, and is now stereotyping middle easterners throughout the country. Communism was abolished with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. A fatal error. One can argue forever and a day that communism is repressive and tyrannical, but the facts are simple: the world has yet to see true communism in place. True communism is perfect. There are no flaws in its design. Capitalism on the other hand as seen economic crashes twice, leaving the country in massive recession and economic doom, while communist nations underwent a massive reform that changed the face of the world forever. Stalin’s two five year plans totally overhauled the Russian government and society transforming it from a mass farming land to one of the biggest industrial countries in the world. During the cold war era, communism was on par with the United States in a matter of ten years. An unprecedented short span to catch up with the most powerful country in the world. Scott Nearing said it perfectly when he stated: “Before the masses, the people all over the world, lie two possibilities. Capitalist imperialism, declining, disintegrating, dying, a rotting social system-that is one possibility. The other possibility is a socialized, planned world economy under working class control, out of which grows the new social order” (Leone 33)

    Now the tough part comes: convincing the masses that communism is the best way to run the government. I pose my question still: Is communism really bad? I think not. From the proceeding one has to be the judge. But looking at our current state today and seeing the deplorable state it’s in, these ideas would clean that mess up. The people must make a choice. Do you want a repressive, harsh, discriminatory capitalist society, or do you want a free, equal, powerful, nondiscriminatory communist regime. The power rests within your hands now.

    WORKS CITED

    • Kort, Michael Marxism In Power: The Rise And Fall Of A Doctrine Brookfield, Connecticut: The Millbrook Press, 1993 • Leone, Bruno Communism: Opposing Viewpoints St. Paul, Minnesota: Greenhaven Press, Inc, 1986 • Collected sources, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#.22Human_nature.22 • http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html#Proletarian • http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/history/international/comintern/baku/ch04a.htm • http://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/trotsky/works/1937/1937-ussr.htm

    10%  Voted for by Joy Division, midgetgothdoll13.
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  • Communism is bad.

    Communism is bad in theory, because it degrades the effort and goodness of some for the benefit of others. But its more serious problem is in the idea that resources can be effectively allocated in a communist system; they can't be. Economic calculation is impossible without a feedback system like prices. This is partly because value is subjective rather than objective. Value depends on people's choices and decisions, not on a measure such as the cost of production. In practice communism has proven to have a bad effect everywhere that it has been tried. All communist countries have either suffered economic collapse or have modified their system to allow more free-market transactions over time. It has proven wholly unworkable. Communism is wasteful. It is much more wasteful than the free-market because it destroys valuable things when there is a lack of economic information. Communism is inefficient, without the incentive of profit there is little motivation for improvement in any process. Communism is a lie. Under the guise of collective ownership there are always people, committes and managers who have actual control over resources and are able to use their disposal of the resources in exchange for favors if not for money. Ownership is a natural fact of nature and regardless of who owns the title it is the person who has final say in the disposal of a thing or resource who is in fact the owner.

    10%  Voted for by Eye-Beam, petethemeat.
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  • Communism is playing Go_ itself that they denounce.

    Communism isn’t bad or good. it’s just cannot happen in this world. Communism claim is about Equality but Equality in terms of what? Fundamentally speaking, we cannot all be EQUAL.. physically, mentally, intellectually and so do everyone’s effort. Man’s state is a dynamic nature and so are his wishes and wants. You cannot confine a man into just one endeavor or to have a single possesion. Only a Persona that can be powerful to all men can subject men to “equality”. And so we have “Communist Govt.” posing to be that persona which constitutes mortal men. Communism is animalistic and more than a religion which offers itself to be the Opium of the people, no wonder that the person behind that copycat ideology is nothing more than a scumbag who had strive for existence out of someone else effort. Communism is playing Go__ by itself. Whoever believes in communist brand of equality should be asking himself whether he is still want to be human or be an asshole machine.

    Voted for by butterman.
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  • one ponders...

    In theory, communism isn't a bad thing at all, it was meant to benefit mankind. The knowledge that one is equal in the eyes of his or her peers is enough to make anyone feel good. humans, however, still have that nasty disease called greed, a disease which is insatiable, and therefore, the idea that everyone in the world should give up his or her wants to benefit another is quite heinous in the eyes of some, which is where the conflict comes in. as always, humans feel the need to have someone in power, so the struggle is never over for who should rule.

    I think the idea of communism is good. However, the idea of the whole world or even an entire country being communist, seems a little strange. If I were ever invited to one of those communist camps that are sometimes seen in south america and such places, I would definately go and experience it in the hopes of expanding my knowledge so I may get the chance to help the world.

    Voted for by RavenesqueVibe.
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  • Depends

    Depends what is the definition of Communism. Overall, Communism can be from a nice ideal just like Democracy of equality or a name of annoying burocratic party. If we are talking about the various ideals, then It can not be evil. If we are talking about the many governaments that used Communism as propaganda to in the end just keep some dictadure as Stalin, then it is possible to call it evil...I would rather then Call Dictadors like Stalin evil.

    Voted for by Joao Camilo.
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