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noit's stupid to think that war is needed. it's only needed because of people trying to take control, if not for that, i'm pretty sure we would be fine without it...Voted for by zga.
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June 23, 2009
If WW2 never came around, you might not have airplanes that are as safe as the ones today.
Just take that into consideration a bit
Crazyhead
June 24, 2009
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dont get me wrong... there is indeed a silver lining to war (as there is to ANYTHING if you try hard enough)... but it is by NO stretch of the imagination WORTH the war...
June 24, 2009
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you don't have start a war to put money into making better technology.
June 24, 2009
It's not the only war that's brought technology. That was just one example.
Crazyhead
June 24, 2009
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June 24, 2009
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But we are talking about human beings here.
June 25, 2009
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Also, if Germany didn't have anyone to go to war with, and were just killing people without anyone stopping them and countries just rolled over and let the German military take their land, then they would have never tried to invent jet engines. America would have never begun to develop nuclear technology. A lot of good has come out of nuclear technology. A better understanding of the universe, quantum physics, and in the future a cleaner source of energy. Possibly a source of energy with no moving parts, something that is required for the human race to go fourth from the boundaries of our current world. You can't generate a power source in space without gravity unless there is a power source with no moving parts.
Hell, we already have the hydro powered engine, which has no moving parts, but that is electrochemical energy, not nuclear energy.
What about Iran? They are about to go to civil war. This is necessary. They have a dictator that is doing the same thing Hitler was doing years ago!
Weydon
June 25, 2009
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He's completely right in this aspect. If no one went to war with them, we'd just have many more dead people and a world run by Nazi's, Imperialist Japan, and Imperialist Italy (though they may have turned on each other in the end). THAT is the neccessity of WW2.
The idea of technology coming about through war is indeed just a silver lining to a terrible situation. I'm glad good came out of it. But it's not worth it by any means. Yes, I'm thrilled about the advances of jets, it is how I am on my vacation right now. But if instead millions of lives were saved because no crazed, murderous dictators ever came to power in the Axis nations, I'd favor a slower, more peaceful development of technology.
Crazyhead
June 25, 2009
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it also never would have been a war if politicians hadnt deemed early intervention unnecessary... the entire war could have been prevented diplomatically, but no one could be bothered...
Weydon
June 25, 2009
Germany was annexing (essentially hostile takeovers) Austria and other territories, and each time was diplomatically reprimanded. Germany loosely apologized but did not give up any of their gained land, and countries like England and France said "Okay, but you better not do it again!" And it did, again and again. Until one final warning was given, and Germany invaded Poland anyway. They were not going to stop, diplomacy and appeasement did not work, so they had to be forced through stop--otherwise known as war.
The United States was LITERALLY in the middle of peace talks with Japan when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Not like on the phone, sometimes corresponding ideas of peace between them. Diplomats (as in diplomacy) from Japan were in the US, negotiating peace, in full knowledge that an attack was being planned. As Pearl Harbor was being bombed, the diplomats handed in a declaration of war. The US responded with their own declaration of war, and Germany declared war on the US because of it.
What should have been done differently??
June 26, 2009
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Scientists really can't get much done without money, and the government starts to fund research when war is going on. That is just how it works.
There's a few reasons we need the new technology. Not only to save peoples lives in the future, but to save our planet. The imminent threat of an asteroid hitting us tomorrow is there weather or not it's a big or small chance. New technology is the only thing that will save us from this. We don't have the ability for a rapid response to protect us from this threat.
A lot of medical advancements have taken places because of war as well. Treating injuries for wounds. The people on the front lines are there because they choose to, and if the war they are fighting is generating a better way to treat bullet wounds, it will save INNOCENT lives later down the road.
Also, there are robotics engineers working on mobile soldiers, and they even have some robots disarming IEDs out in the field in the middle east today. This alone saves countless lives, and would have never had the funding to get off the ground if there wasn't military intervention to fund the projects.
I'm not saying it's right, but we are STILL talking about human beings here. No one in power cares about the future. They just want to win. So they inadvertently help develop technology that will help the human race survive in the future. They don't care that it will, they just want victory in the present.
In THE PERFECT WORLD technology would just be funded by the government for the sole purpose of looking into the future. Hell, it would probably advance further and faster, but like I said. Human beings WILL be human beings.
To me, the best thing that comes out of a war is technology, and war is a necessity if we want to continue developing new technology because human kind will not fund it otherwise.
Theres nothing we can do, until an outside threat, something beyond our world, makes itself apparent and the world unites itself, seeing as humanity only responds and unites to a threat.
We can only hope that we stay united when the threat is resolved!
Crazyhead
June 26, 2009
for one, that shouldn't have been allowed... if other countries in Europe had actually taken a diplomatic stand instead of adopting an appeasment-based diplomacy they likely could have stopped the expansion early...
if a trade embargo had been employed, germany wouldnt have had the supplies to start building all those weapons... you cant tell me we didnt see them building up stockpiles of weapons... then what? they take over poland with sticks and pistols?
Alexander Hine
June 26, 2009
Sorry, but you are simply wrong about this, if anything things would have been better if Britain had attacked far earlier before Hitler could gain more territory and strength.
Crazyhead
June 27, 2009
how does that not include Russia?
Weydon
June 27, 2009
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Yes, if everyone did the right thing, war would never happened--but that includes Germany! They would've found a way to amass weapons, ie building their own.
"for one, that shouldn't have been allowed... if other countries in Europe had actually taken a diplomatic stand instead of adopting an appeasment-based diplomacy they likely could have stopped the expansion early..."
They DID try diplomatic stances. France, England, and the Soviet Union were the only countries strong enough to have any say in the matter, aside from Italy who was allied with Germany. You said appeasement-based diplomacy was stupid, and it certainly was. But it was the only path that could have POSSIBLY avoided war (it didn't, btw
Alexander Hine
June 27, 2009
That's the problem with diplomacy, it assumes that everyone will go along with signed agreements, but this is often not the case.
And if you're going to suggest that someone should have forced Russia to co-operate through military means, then we're in a circle which, though fun to spin in, is flawed as argument.
Further, nobody knew about the agreement - it was secret - so it couldn't have been addressed anyway.
You're right that WWII could have been avoided, but it would've meant abject capitulation, the extermination of worldwide Jewry along with millions of gypsies, gays, slavs etc and a division of the world into fascist German, Italian and Japanese empires - who would undoubtedly wage ceaseless wars between each other.
A. H.
Crazyhead
June 27, 2009
Weydon
June 28, 2009
Was it necessary for illegal actions to happen? No. We just explained away every crime, every injustice, small or large, in all of human history. What does that mean? Nothing. Bad people do bad things, selfish people do selfish things, criminals break the law. What is your point? What should have been done differently? Criminals shouldn't have been criminals? Great, you just solved all the crime in the world.
Crazyhead
June 30, 2009
i'm not arguing that war is always avoidable or even uncalled for.... just never strictly NECESSARY, because they are caused by unnecessary actions...
Weydon
June 30, 2009
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It seemed like you were arguing exactly that. That is the point we are arguing against.
Are crimes and brutality necessary? No. That is why sometimes war IS--in order to stop horrendous crimes and brutality.
Alexander Hine
June 28, 2009
To clear things up: say you see a woman being attacked in the street and you run over and beat the bejeezus out of her attacker. In this situation Weydon and I would deem your actions sadly necessary (assuming one wishes to prevent harm to the woman); on your account we would deem such actions unnecessary because the man's attack on the woman was itself unnecessary.
Perhaps it's just my unenlightened stance but I see your position as somewhat absurdist.
A. H.
Alexander Hine
June 28, 2009
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A. H.
Alexander Hine
June 27, 2009
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Thus true, but the diplomatic stand would have to have been backed up by military force - and if the bluff was called Britain should've attacked.
Alexander Hine
June 26, 2009
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I know that sounds ridiculous and, in a sense, it is - but what I mean is simply that war will never go away until people, of their own accord, stop attacking each other - and until then even peaceful countries are well-advised to keep an army. Sadly, I can't imagine such a thing happening anytime soon of ever.
A. H.
July 22, 2009
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Here's my two cents.
I honestly don't believe that war will disappear over night. The way I see it. War is driven by belief. The belief that the opposing "side" is the evil/bad/wrong etc. The Nazi's in WWII believed that they were right and that we were wrong. To put it simply. The Nazi's didn't think that what they were doing was wrong. I know that sounds horrible but it's true. Now I do not mean the entire German people. I don't mean that at all. The Nazi party did think that the genocide that took place was right. Where the allies on the other side believed that they were right and that the Nazi's were wrong. No one would have fought against the Nazi's unless they believed that the genocide was wrong. No one would participate in the extermination of a race unless they believed it to be correct thing to do.During the Cold War it was the same thing. Communism against Democracy. Two strong and different beliefs going against each other both believing that their course of action is the correct one. I don't want to say that if there are two different beliefs that war will never end because here in the USA we are at the least. Somewhat accepting of other peoples beliefs.
I'm just going to end this by saying that unless we can all learn to accept each other; or until people learn that not everything is worth dying for. War will still be around.
August 5, 2009
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Yes
War is a population controller....think about it every what 10 years or so we have an all out war against some country. Tell me a better way to control our over populated cities.Please register or login to comment! It's fast and totally free!