woohoo

I disagree with Nosferatu because part of the discussion is about who decides, which is where god is established. Or atleast the idea of god in my mind. In my opinion, speaking in a more atheistic stance(not that I am) it can be said that god was established to add a name and punishment for sins commited by man. God was from then on the parental figure associated with humanity, much like a real parent is with their children. The parent decides what is good and bad, in their mind based on their morals and values, thus creating Good and Evil. Speaking only on morals not refering to historical occurences, in my view, God could have been created to be that parental figure that people seem to need to make it by day to day without killing each other.

Good and bad are judgments that humans associate with EVERYTHING. To prove god you would have to prove that there was once nothing. This is like the yin-yang you cannot have something good without something bad ... something beautiful without something ugly. And who is it that began these ideas? Us *supreme beings* that have to name everything. "This is _good_" “this is _bad_" frankly it is what it is.

Are you serious?????

If ,first, you can explain to me who is going to decide what is "good" and what is "bad" and on what criteria this decision is based ...then,perhaps,we can move on to a discussion of spiritual matters. Unless,and until that discussion (and all the questions that come with it) is dealt with, Keyman, your argument, and conclusion are pointless. And in my opinion are fundamentally flawed.

Both religious and secular historians agree on this one fact: in its infancy, humanity was chaotic and somewhat amoral. This went on until the Code of Hammurabi was established; this is commonly accepted as the first written set of laws. [Note: the Ten Commandments were given about two thousand years later, during egypt's tryst in power.] These laws came about to keep people from hurting themselves and one another. From this, living in accordance with the law was "good," whereas violating the law was "bad." It's all relative to mandates ultimately handed down from a mortal man.

Good for you.

Good and bad is a matter of opinion. I do believe the Ying-Yang concept. Ok, lets say my cat dies, Id find that a bad thing right. But my next door neighbor would be glad cause my cat always craps in his yard. So his bad, contrast with my good. Therefor god could represent the goodness, but not all goodness, basically, "god" in this concept, would be only a personal god, and maybe, in others eyes, satan.

Hard as you tried to prove that God does exist, and I applaud the effort, it simply can't be done. Personally, I believe that he does exist, and that he determines both good and evil, though he has only created good. Especially since if God does exist he _must_ determine what is good and evil because there are things that an eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being have to determine as absolutes in order to be able to define himself so that he can know who the heck he is. And he being God, he decides what's right (good) and what's wrong (evil) and then there's nothing anyone else can say or do about it 'cause he's God. And since there aren't exactly any other gods around...well, it's not like anyone can stop him.

However, I have continually found that there is no argument anywhere that can be given to prove that God does indeed exist. It's simply impossible. So why do I believe that he does? Simply because there is also no possible argument that anyone can give to deny that he exists. That also, is simply impossible. Believing in the existence of God is a matter of faith, a jump forward through darkness if you will. You can either take the leap and risk falling off a ledge into a bottomless pit or reaching a place from which you may progress further towards a place where you can live in the utmost luxury, or you can stay were you are and rot safely. Simple as that. Personally I've decided to take the leap and hope I'm still on the right path.

It would be better for society as a whole if God's existence was not confirmed beyond question. Think about society if God were proven to exist: people would cease to function properly, economy would collapse, people who were dying would just give up and die. Afterall, who needs this life if there is a definite afterlife waiting for you (and an eternal one at that). People everywhere would think: I must devote my life to the one true God so much so that I neglect this life, because eternal happiness lasts a whole lot longer than temporary happiness. Think of all the bloodshed that would occur: religious minorities would be slaughtered immediately. All signs of other religion would be wiped off the face of the earth. All those who had preached otherwise would be executed.

Then think of the quality and value of religion. Religion would become a science. It would not be something that you do for the sake of betterment of yourself but purely for the sake of fear or lust for reward. The quality of religion should not be based on lust of heaven, but for want to lead a virtuous life (which just so happens to lead to heaven). It would be a greater defilement to Christianity for everyone to believe in God and be virtuous for the sake of their own greed than for only a fraction of the world to believe in God but follow through with great commitment and zeal and purity. Because what matters to religion is not the size of its following, but the intent and the commitment and the purity of its followers.

Of course this is a stupid, meaningless argument, but this part right here is especially weak: "Therefore, if all badness finds its root in something good, then good must precede the bad. This must then therefore mean that at one time, there was an all goodness." There was an all-goodness, eh? Your argument is something like this: Take a bag of Goodness, a bag of Baddness, put in a blender and press puree for 2 minutes, remove and sprinkle with some "God" words. You're done!!! Ready to serve to Allphilisophy!

if something good is all perfectly good and that because of this reason it must still exist.. how come that something all good would produce or give way to something bad?? does this all good perfection became lesser good? then the big good would not be existing?? so God is not existing... Unless, all good is not nec. God.. or all good is not God.. It is better to believe that a creator is existing... why? because of all the reasons that every religous person can offer, or maybe because there is no better explanation for everything, though that is not philosophical... But it is not good to believe that this God wants us to live this way or that... because if he is existing to dictate rules and what good must be, then what can be his reason for letting us have our so called judgement?? Now... What is obvious is that, we are existing to move towards what is good for us.. Such that all sciences and technologies that sprouted from introspection came to be.. People do bad things because there is something good that they gain from it... They do good things bcoz they find pleassure in it.. They pursue pleassure because...???? I don't know yet... There are too many people to generalize the answer to this one... But the fact remains that goodness exist as long as evil exist... and that if something is really of all good, then nothing that is bad can come out of it---even those evil things that are meant to have good results...

In order to PROVE this theory you must first prove that they're an absolute right and an absolute wrong. Go read about Moral Relativity