ok, so... so God created Adam and Eve and they were said to be just like we are now (or at least in the pictures) *but* evolution is said to be the proccess of changing over time, which there is proof of.
*so*which is true???
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My opinion...19% Voted for by lordmonkey, ennoia, D8TisMeXD, morrison, Kahliya. (6 total)
Let's see.
For evolution, we have evidence.
For creationism, we have faith.
Which makes more sense? Proof or belief? I'm going to have to go for evolution.
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Evolution.16% Voted for by UpsideDownFrown, Lazarae, Cherub, Alpha Omega, petethemeat.
An all-powerful God who creates man in His own image is not, no matter what an apologist will try to excuse away, compatible with science.
God is little more than a fairy-tale that everybody believes in. Science is science, and if I offend any religious people, well, thanks for the Inquisition, the Crusades, homophobia, and burning Galileo at the stake. You've earned it.
God is a fallacy, and at this point in human history only stands in the way of progress.
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Dialogue with an Atheist Professor12% Voted for by nashwa, McKlatch, CountCrimsonMaryian, A.Far.Cry.
"Let me explain the problem science has with God.", The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
Professor: "You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?"
Student: "Yes, sir"
Professor: "So you believe in God?"Student: "Absolutely"
Professor: "Is God good?"
Student: "Sure! God's good"
Professor: "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
Student: "Yes"
The professor grins knowingly and considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"
Student: "Yes sir, I would"
Professor: "So you're good...!"
Student: "I wouldn't say that"
Professor: "Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't"
[No answer]
"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"
[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. "In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones"
"Let's start again, young fella"
Professor: "Is God good?"
Student: "Er... Yes"
Professor: "Is Satan good?"
Student: "No"
Professor: "Where does Satan come from?"
Student: "The student falters. From... God..."
Professor: "That's right. God made Satan, didn't He?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen". He turns back to the Muslim.
"Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"
Student: "Yes, sir"
Professor: "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"
Student: "Yes"
Professor: "Who created evil?"
[No answer]
Professor: "Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the terrible things - do they exist in this world?"
The student squirms on his feet.
Student: "Yes"
Professor: "Who created them?"
[No answer]
The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Muslim's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?"
[No answer]
The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me, he continues, How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time? The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"
[No answer]
"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"
[No answer]
"Do you believe in God, son?"
The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do"
The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. You have never seen God, Have you?"
Student: "No, sir. I've never seen Him"
Professor: "Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?
Student: "No, sir. I have not"
Professor: "Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"
[No answer]
Professor: "Answer me, please"
Student: "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't"
Professor: "You're AFRAID... you haven't?"
Student: "No, sir"
Professor: "Yet you still believe in him?"
Student: "yes..."
Professor: "That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?"
The student doesn't answer "Sit down, please" The Muslim sits...Defeated. Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?" The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering"
The Muslim looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"
Professor: Yes, the professor replies. There's heat.
Student: "Is there such a thing as cold?"
Professor: "Yes, son, there's cold too."
Student: "No, sir, there isn't"
Professor: The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold. The student continues. You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458, You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it"
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
Student: "Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
Professor: "That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?"
Student: "So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
Professor: "Yes..."
Student: "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you... give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. "This will indeed be a good semester. Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"
Student: "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."
The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!
Student: "Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears.
Professor: "Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality", the Muslim explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it"
The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor, Is there such a thing as immorality?"
Professor: "Of course there is, now look..."
Student: "Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Muslim pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"
The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless. The Muslim continues.
"If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? Islam tells us it is to see if each one of us will, choose good over evil"
The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable"
"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going", the Muslim replies. "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"
Professor: "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."
Student: "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"
The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.
Student: "Professor, Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?
Professor: "I will overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
Student: "So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"
Professor: "I believe in what is - that's science!"
Student: "Ahh! SCIENCE!", the student's face splits into a grin, "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..."
SCIENCE IS FLAWED..? the professor splutters.
The class is in uproar. The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has subsided.
Student: "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?"
The professor wisely keeps silent. The Muslim looks around the room.
"Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen air, oxygen, molecules, atoms, the professor's brain?" The class breaks out in laughter. The Muslim points towards his elderly crumbling tutor, "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?"
"No one appears to have done so", The Muslim shakes his head sadly. "It appears no one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I declare that the professor has no brain!"
The Muslim sits...Because that's what a chair is for!!!
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both6% Voted for by footballfan385, viscosityofwords.
both are true, ever heard of intelligent design?
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Creation all the wayVoted for by Makessenseright.
Non-life does not suddenly become life, no matter how the scientists try to twist the facts. Has anyone ever observed evolution? Even in our most advanced labs we can make so much as a bacteria. Believing in evolution requires an immense amount of faith that I frankly don’t have. In the name of science I worship God.
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In harmony - why not?Voted for by ennoia.
When Newton devised his laws of motion, and Einstein later proved that they were really only 99% correct, no one went round burning Newton text books and condemning him to hell, they just accepted he was mostly right, and that the laws had proved satisfactory for the time, and just got on with it.
When the Bible was written it was satisfactory for the time. Essentially, the Bible should not be treated as the word of God, it is man's ideas of the word of God, and much of it changed and was lost in translation. Many people, I myself included, are guilty of picking out all the archaic fumbles and contradictions in the Bible, which is easy to do in retrospective, just like its easy now to see that Newtons Laws aren’t entirely accurate.
What we really should be doing, is not reinterpreting man’s ideas of the word of God, but trying to suppose what God really meant in the first place. Now, it’s not philosophy to pick and choose from the Bible, but, there is some merit socially, and perhaps even philanthropically, in trying to give a more sensible meaning to the old text.
I do not deny I find it impossible to accept the universe, and earth as we know it today, was created in seven days. But why should seven days of creation be seven literal days? I think a ‘day’ wasn’t even possible until ‘Wednesday’, because of the order in which things were created. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that the ‘days’ are symbolic stages of progression. Scientifically, you could put 10 billion years between the first verse of Genesis and second, and it would work. No one should see any problem in this – if God really is all powerful and all-everything, etc, 10 billion years is a walk in the park.
Essentially, the Bible is just a long poem, man’s ideas of God. People can analyse what they will, just as we analyse Shakespeare and Wordsworth. With a little imagination the Bible can fit into the universal scheme of evolution, there’s no real reason, if you are open-minded, that God can’t have imagined an evolving world. After all, man was, apparently, created last. Who’s to say there wasn’t millions of years between each species? I think evolution is beautiful, and by the chances of chaos, or inspired by a deity, it’s no less beautiful.
It’s when the Bible is liberally interpreted as a political weapon, or discriminatory social tool, against homosexuals, different ethnic backgrounds and women, etc, that we should really worry.
There is such overwhelming proof that evolution exists, it can be seen within a few generations of rats, for example, that anyone who denies it is a fool.
But there’s no concrete reason as to why God cannot be in harmony with the theory.
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BothVoted for by Sharcu.
If there is a beginning,t here must a be beginner. Someone had to have started it as a certain point. In Genesis 1 (from the Bible) where it refers to the creation theory in the Biblical sense, God spoke and things created. Now, can you imagine God speaking? Well, I imagine it as a loud booming noise. Loud noise... bang? Hrm... possibly. So possibly the big bang does exist. If is does, then I can tell you all that I know "the banger."
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OkVoted for by -Forgoten-.
Look people are going to go round and round trying to answer the question till they drop dead, and frankly I don't know why, and whats it matter anyway, what are we going to do if we find out how its done wont change much save for people trying to make there out planets and such. I don't think we'll ever know not truly its beyond our understanding and maybe its not for us to know, maybe the truth is to horible to know... This is to upside down frown, Inquisition, the Crusades and burning Galileo at the stake, non of these I'm proud of. I wont talk about gays or any of that here because its another topic, but God doesn't keep people from progressing anything, I'd love to be a scientist, in fact if is wasn't for science I don't know whare we would be...but if evolution is right and there is no God than what is the point, were no more than mindless animals living our some pointless excistance here on this planet with no greater cause but to grow multiply and kill eachother....I'm sorry but if thats what the truth and enlightenment is I'd rather be stupid and a fool....here a quesiton why arn't animals still becoming somthing else, why arnt people evolving further, if we are thee final stages of evolution....than it needs work......UpsideDownFrown hey if you ever want to talk to me, or convince me why I should side with you ok...I'd love to talk with you...whoknows this could be the start a friendship...LOL..sorry
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Read...Voted for by street-crazy.
Neither or both. The beginning of all life, death, creation and destruction is beyond our comprehension and understanding. So quit trying to prove what is the truth. The only way (even in the next million years) to seek the truth is to die. Which the outcome or the anticipation acts as a double-edged blade.
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The Chicken or egg?Voted for by Synith.
Depends on what faith you follow... but if you look at Greek Mythology, everything came from the Gaia (It's referd to as a void, a nothingness.. yet still somehow alive).. then from that came the Titans.. who gave birth to Zeus & Hades and other people... Zeus is the ruler of all gods (All gods came form the titans) and Hades is the ruler of the underworld (Hades is also refered to Satan in the Bible)..Zeus had sevral daughters and sons.. as well as Hades.. Zeus' daughters formed the everything in the land.. seperated sea from sky.. and so on. Anyway.. if you read up on Greek Mythology, It makes a hell of a lot more sence then just the big bang.. Here's a cool link: http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/europe/greek/
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December 15, 2005
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December 30, 2005
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December 30, 2005
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December 30, 2005
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December 30, 2005
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Was something misunderstood?
My point was that science proves that God is bullshit and that evolution makes more sense, not that science proves God to be more right than wrong. (If you were talking to me D8TisMeXD)February 22, 2007
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evolution is scientific?
Hmm I’m sorry but science no more proves evolution to be right than it proves intelligent design to wrong. If you’re trying to say that evolution is actually scientific, you had better look up the definition of science, because it does not fit key hole. Science is observable, and if someone can say that evolution can be observed from a rock, you have some serious drawbacks. It is easy to say there is no God when you cannot study it, observe it, calculate it, or do anything but say he exists. But if you look at the possibilities by implying that there is no God or never was, you’re putting into motion the idea that everything we have today was a result of something coming from nothing 4 billion years ago. Out of every natural law that we have found, none of them would support that claim it’s also surprising to know that all but two of the founders were Christians including the father of the scientific method sir Francis bakin. If people have solid observable evidence to support what evolution has to say, I’ll listen. But only if it derived of proof not based on bias.March 30, 2007
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evolution IS scientific
well, you see, evolution is really really really really really really really really really really really really SLOW. SO it cannot be examined, in that, a person isn't going to GROW an extra arm. BUT however that doesn't mean that there is no evolution. it can be observed the same way air is observed. we can't SEE it, but there is EVIDENCE and FACTS that PROVE it is THERE. evidence that was (cough cough) observed "in a rock", so to speak. assuming you meant those silly little things called INDESPUTABLE FOSSIL RECORDS.April 1, 2007
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Evolution requires blind faith. The bible doesn't. You cannot prove evolution. With evolution, you have to believe things just happen without any intellegent designer. Like a tornado going through a junkyard and producing a toyota (with the odds for that happening is still surprisingly a lot higher than the odds for evolution)
YOu also have to believe that there is no creator to account for the amazing complexity, diversy, and order of the universe.
And You also need to go against SCIENTIFIC FACT!
We have no proof of macro evolution. just microevolution or natural selection. There has not once (observed) been a mutation that has made an animal more complex! And out of the trillions of creatures we see today, we should see at least a few hundred. But no, we see harmful mutations that allow creatures to survive (like sicklecelled disease allowing people to survive milaria) (or bacteria not being able to produce a cell well properly, and thus not being affected by pennicilin), we see mutations REMOVING genes to help an animal survive. (like lactose tolerance). We see natural selection that uses variations of THE SAME GENES. =P No proof for macroevolution so far. But evolutionists still have blind faith that is CAN happen. because they blotted out the fact that there is a God, and thus try to explain our origins with the wackiest ideas out there.
Plus the fossile records go against evolution. We have trees going througmultiple layers (the top of a tree owuld be completely eroded away if the leyers weren't dumped on eachother with little time in between), we see fossiles in layers they shouldn't be in. We see layers out of order, or wee very complex animals at the bottom of the geological columb (trilobites have the MOST COMPLEX EYE in the world, even though they lived 500 million years ago), we see animals that went extinct a long time ago alive today. And the list goes on =P
So no, evolution requries faith, in fact, more faith the creation. And observational science supports creation.
October 24, 2007
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DECAY OF EARTH’S MAGNETIC FIELD
Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field. (4) Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth’s magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the atoms necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth’s entire history is young, within a few thousand years
so if evolution takes a really long time then theres no way that all of this happened in less than 20,000 years
November 14, 2007
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BOTH
March 25
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Belief...
Yes. But what's to say that there must be one or the other? Proof is only another type of Faith... After all, we're having faith in what is proven is true, no?Evolution... S'posedly proof. But what says that evolution disprooves God? Be specific.
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