There are 2 choices, 4 votes for webdemon666's debate

Illegal Immigration

Wha are your thoughts on the subject? In my oppinion the boarders in this country need to be secured, for many reasons.

• "ILLEGAL" Imigrants,

  In the news lately there have been several articals on illegal Immigration. Most of the articals in the mainstream will tell you that the illegals are unfortunate, and the The idea of weeding the illegals out and securing our boarders to prevent more from entering the country is wrong. The fact is that these people are breaking the law by coming into this country uninvited. They will tell you that most hispanics are for less stringent rules for immegration when the research and polls say the contrary. American born and naturalized hispanics are against boarder jumping. Their thoughts are that either they were born here and are proud of it or they went through the process of becoming an american and so should everyone else. They will write articals attesting that the illegals are a major contributer to the american economy when reasearch has proved the contrary. The illegals that come into this country looking for work, number one do not pay taxes, Cheating the government out of billions of dollars in revinue, and number two, illegals send money to mexico to maintain their families to the tune of over Two hundred million dollars a year. So how do they boost the economy? The media will maintain that the illegals take the jobs that americans don't want. Why then are skilled constuction workers denied a job when the illegals are being hired on construction crews. Fact is most americans will work any job when they are falling on hard times. with the unemployment rate at current levels, the jobs that would be freed up, if we cracked down, would be a welcome sight. The media and liberal advacacy groups will tell you that there is no need to secure our boarders and doing so would be a violation of their civil rights, yet over ten thousand arabs that were on FBI watch lists were caught crossing the boarder last year, plus the chinese nationals, and surbian rebals. The media will tell you that it is outragious that we've passed laws to prevent illegals from obtaining drivers licenses, which is completely rediculous because alowing them to get a license makes it harder to identify the illegals. My point is that Illegal imigration is a crime. and an international crime at that. In every other country in the world there are strict penalties for being in a country illegally, why not this one? Well, because we have to be politically correct and not accept the reallity that bad people do bad things. We have all been brainwashed into believing that because illegals are minorities we can't express our feelings on the subject. I say screw that treat the criminals like criminals no matter what nationality they are. besides in Mexico, Mexicans aren't minorities.

  75%  Voted for by webdemon666, Axilla2, The Blind Bandit.

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  • ElisaRose
    August 26, 2005
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    I absolutely agree with you. Most liberals think that if you are for securing the borders than you are against civil rights, when all we are trying to do is protect them. I'm not saying we completely close off borders and let no one in, I'm just saying we ought to close off borders to illegals. If you want to come to this country, do it legally and no one will make a stink about it. Illegals DO NOT contribute to society at all. I remember watching Hannity and Colmes (I hate Colmes) and Colmes had the audacity (or stupidity) to say we shouldn't call them illegal immigrants, we should call them "undocumented persons". I seriously didn't know whether to laugh or throw the TV. We can't have appeasment of crimes, because coming into this country ILLEGALLY!!! is a crime, no matter how you want to dispute it. People need to start smelling the coffee and try to protect America instead of whining about how unfair it is.
  • • webdemon666
      August 26, 2005
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      I almost spit my drink on the screen.

      I was listening to Hannity on the radio today and a guy called in and said that he watches the show too, but when colmes opens his mouth the guy hits the mute button. Actually I like that show because if you are a liberal, your idiotic point of view gets put out there for everyone to laugh at. I am a member of Gen-X. I was raised during the rise of political correctness and I have never understood it. I have always been an advocate of telling it like it is.
  • ElisaRose
    August 27, 2005
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    That's true, Colmes can be so naive and dumb it's funny but at times he can be downright obnoxious. I always say to my dad that he ought to wear a paperbag as well. I remember one time, when Ann Coulter was on, she called him a liar and he freaked out on her. His face was so red and veins popping out everywhere, now that was laugh worthy lol.
  • webdemon666
    August 28, 2005
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    I'm glad that there are some in the gimme generation that have sense.

    Number one how old are you and I have to commend you for the gutts you have to be a conservative in these liberal times. I remember a day when I had to feel like I was a freak because I had the ideas I had. I got kicked out of class on several occasions for asking the pertanant questions like "Are you fucking retarded" (tobey whitlock in government class) Sorry I had to make you an example tobey if you are out there I love you and I thought you were hot anyway. Tobey is a girl if you wondered. Anyway I was a political conservative in a very liberal time, and I felt the effect of that every day. I know how it feels.
  • ElisaRose
    September 4, 2005
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    I'm 19 and yes school was filled with a bunch of simple-minded tools, but I always enjoyed arguing with them and making them all hate me, heck they hated me anyway. I bet we would have gotten along very well in school. I live in Massachusetts, so you can just imagine how liberal it is here. It's relieving to know that there still is some brains out there. ;)
  • heresyistheway
    September 14, 2005
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    Oh ya, all you gather and glory at your amazing intelligence. It's so interesting that it's the more educated states (more people with college educations) on the coasts with more "wordly" people that vote more "liberal" and yet its you so smart Bible belters that get your way. Anyways that's more a rant about the comments. The actual post: You have NO RIGHT denying ANYONE entance to the United States because you're (and I'm American too so myself included) FUCKING ILLEGALS. You STOLE land for the real "Americans" and took their land, destroyed their population, did your best to destroy their culture, and most definatly warped their little economy. America is one big heap of illegal immigants. Unless you're 100% Native American you have no righ to claim any "birth right" or "nationality" in terms of America. I'm sure the REAL Americans are dying for you fucking illegals to get the hell out of THEIR COUNTRY.
  • ElisaRose
    September 17, 2005
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    HAHAHAHAHAHA you are a moron. The Native Americans weren't here originally lackbrain, so look into history. Also, America was created for freedom for all races and religions, so if you come here legally then you aren't an illegal, if you come to this country and suck money out of the economy and don't pay a cent in taxes then you are a drain on society, hence why so many don't like illegals. America was never the Native Americans or Indians or whatever you want to call them's country, they had the land but they had NOTHING to do with the creation of America. You are a complete illiterate who doesn't even deserve to live in this country.
  • heresyistheway
    September 20, 2005
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    Excuse me? One you are incredibly rude. Two the Native Americans were here far before any Europeans (the Vikings) or Asians who were said to have come even before Columbus. So yes, this was THIER land they got to North/South America on the ice bridge long long ago. And with the "creation of America" there's also the point that it is commenly believed that the Iroqois Nations' system of government was a strong influence on the forming of the "European American" govenment. Three, just because someone cannot read they don't deserve to live in a country? Aren't you an elitist. Four, I think redneck oil mongers like the current president are a strong drain on our economy and society, but that does not mean he does not have the right to live here. Also America was not originally created for the freedom of all races and religions. When the European Americans first formed their America it was freedom for only white men. And mostly for Christianity, although the most influencial writers of the Declaration and the Bill were athiest or deists. The people (civilians) of the nation were still religous fanatical fucks. So, stop your childish name calling. And get your own fucking facts straight.
  • ElisaRose
    September 20, 2005
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    .........

    Ok, first off America, or should I say the land America now inhibits, was never one specific group, it was a bunch of groups, a bunch of Indians. If you take a look into history you'll see that all they did was kill each other, Indians weren't as peaceful as everyone seems to think. So stop acting like we just came in and disrupted their lovely peace. Here is a direct quote from you, "Unless you’re 100% Native American you have no righ to claim any “birth right” or “nationality” in terms of America. I’m sure the REAL Americans are dying for you fucking illegals to get the hell out of THEIR COUNTRY." Ok, Indians never made America, is that clear yet? Who thinks like that? You are talking about something that happened over 200 years ago. If you want to go by that theory than no one is a legal citizen in their own country. Also I didn't say you didn't deserve to be in this country for your illiteracy, it's because you sit here and criticize America as if it's some horrible country. That makes you a moron. Another quote from you, "When the European Americans first formed their America it was freedom for only white men. And mostly for Christianity, although the most influencial writers of the Declaration and the Bill were athiest or deists. The people of the nation were still religous fanatical fucks." Yes America was first created for freedom of all white men and women off all religious backgrounds, but if memory serves me right, then blacks were freed and have all the rights even more than the whites, so that's cleared up. Second, the most influential righters of the Declaration were Masons. They weren't fanaticals, I'd like some proof on that one. I have my facts straight, you just seem to want to contort them.
  • heresyistheway
    September 21, 2005
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    First we have to get tems straight. When I say "America" I mean the general North American continent, because I'm not aware of any name that came before this one, which was given to it by Europeans after some sort of mapmaker if I'm remembering right. The "USA" which is the country that now exists on part of North America has little to do with the Native True "Americans" other than that bit of the Iroquois Nation being used as a model for some of the bases of the USA's system of government. "America" the North American place that was, in the time period I'm talking about, not refered to AS America because the Europeans were thousands of years from it, was populated by different tribes yes, but the same genius of people. No the Indians weren't all peaceful, the Tanos that Columbus discovered and betrayed were. As were many of those that offered the newcomes help, and were then betrayed. But yes there were "war oriented" tribes. And peaceful tribes that got fed up with the Europeans treatment and turned mean. Indians never made the USA but they WERE the people of "America" (though again it did not go by that name) until about 240 years ago. And while there is something to be said of the fact that most places are now inhabbited by "conquerer" people or people who were not part of the original population, this is a much more recent "conquering" of people. The European Americans that created the USA created without any claim to any of that land, they got it through bloodshed. And that is true of many countries, however, we used a horrible lot of deception (signing treaties and then turning around and breaking them in the same second) to get it at a point in time where we should have been just a little more civilized. USA Americans owe Native Americans for what they did to them not too long ago. But that's all besides the point, USA Americans don't have a right to keep anyone out of todays America because none of them really ever belonged there anyway. Most peoples parents came over as illegals even after the USA was founded. We're a country of mongrols that didn't like where we were. We can't suddenly "change the rules", it's immoral and unfair. If we do that lets go back and look at everyone's lineage and find out just how many of the pretty white USAers should really go back to Ireland. Or any other country, it's just an example. And I said that the PEOPLE of the new USA were religious fanatics. The Founding Fathers were far from it, but had to make some rules so that they wouldn't be lynched. Jefferson and others were often threatened with being arrested for their athiest/deist thinking. And America was ORIGINALLY created for the freedom of FREE WHITE CHRISTIAN MEN. Not indentured white men. Not red or black men. Not white women. Not Jewish white men. The rights for all these people came later. While the Constitution did specify that we were a country for all religions, if you came into one of the original states and announced that you were a Buddhist, things would not go well. That was all the beginning though, of coures things have changed in that aspect.
  • ElisaRose
    September 21, 2005
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    The constitution was written by Jewish people so yes Jewish had freedom, America was created for freedom of all religions and the fact remains that all religions were here. You said, "USA Americans owe Native Americans for what they did to them not too long ago." We don't owe them anything, did you fight in that war, do you know anyone that fought in that war? WE don't owe them a single cent. We fought a war and they lost OVER 200 years ago, you can't feel sorry for it, especially since America would never exist if we hadn't fought. Another quote from you, "And peaceful tribes that got fed up with the Europeans treatment and turned mean." You are seeing this from the wrong angle, what about the innocent white men that were just sitting with their families and an Indian tribe would come through town and rape and pillage their wives and daughters. I know this is true, I live only 10 miles or so from Plymouth Plantation. My uncle lives in a house that was built in the 1700s and they have a secret room where people used to hid if the Indians came through town. You make this all look like the white men were wrong and the Indians were the victims, it was a war, both sides contributed to their fair share of maiming and killing. You just seem to be stuck on this irrevelant notion that Indians somehow were the wronged and peaceful ones. Whites didn't just wrong them, the Indians wronged them as well, it was a 50/50 thing and war ensued and the Indians lost, end of story.
  • heresyistheway
    September 22, 2005
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    I would like to know who was (openly) Jewish that wrote any of the Constitution. And how many Buddhists were living in America at the time of the Consititutions writing. How many Muslims? Hindus? Pagans? Aside from the Native Americans of coures that still held their old religions. And no I understand that the Native Americans did attack villiges too, but Native Americans didn't send anyone on a Trail of Tears did they? At the beginning a lot of the tribes were kind and if it weren't for them the first Europeans on "American" soil would have died because they didn't know the land. Often, even though the MOST and that's not to say ALL there were bloody warring vicous tribes, freely gave information and were facsinated by the newcomers. And when I say we "owe" them I mean the USA was a founded legal nation by the time they made many of the contracts and treaties with the Native Americans, that they later broke. The USA govenment today is still the same USA govenment that signed those treaties and contracts. It has evolved, but it's signature still legally binds it. There are many treaties the USA govenment should now be honering. But thats impossible, we cant give huge tracts of land back to people who, though may rightly deserve it, is now being lived on by thousands of other people. It's a sticky situation. One I do not know the answer for, but it is not really the topic of this thread. The topic is just that America, wether it likes it or not, has always been free land, that anyone who didn't like where they were would come. From the original people who crossed the Icebridge to get here first, to the Europeans that came to escape intolerence and get richer, to the people from all over the world that come seeking freedom and better educations. We have no right to lock them out now, when our forefathers did the exact same thing not so long ago.
  • ElisaRose
    September 22, 2005
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    Your words, "We have no right to lock them out now, when our forefathers did the exact same thing not so long ago." I never said to lock them out. All I said was stop them from coming here illegally. If they want to come here legally then I couldn't care less, I just get angered when these illegals come here and get paid under the table, never pay taxes, and suck money out of the economy. I can't stand that. This is true here, if an illegal comes to this country they get free medicare but my sick aunt can't even get medicare to help her pay for her cancer pills and they cost over 1,000 bucks a bottle. Now do you think that's fair, do you think our founding fathers would have wanted that? We owe it to America to be fair to its citizens and giving NONCITIZENS free healthcare while LEGAL citizens suffer is extremely unfair and surely a smack in the face. So for you to say it is unfair to close the borders TO ILLEGALS then you are an ignorant narrow-minded liberal, and that's not being rude that's stating a fact. You can't go around saying we owe people this and we owe people that when all America does is help everyone. You need to stop complaining about how bad America is. I was just looking at your earlier post and how you called me rude, but before that you said, "Oh ya, all you gather and glory at your amazing intelligence. It’s so interesting that it’s the more educated states (more people with college educations) on the coasts with more “wordly” people that vote more “liberal” and yet its you so smart Bible belters that get your way. Anyways that’s more a rant about the comments." YOU are such a whining baby. WHO ever said I was a bible belter???? Who are you to make that assumption? You have a verrrrry narrow way of thinking with your only smart educated people think liberal and only religious bible belters are conservative. You are a fool, call me rude, heck it's hilarious, but you are extremely prejudice and hypocritical but I wouldn't expect anything else from a liberal.
  • heresyistheway
    September 22, 2005
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    I can't help but point out that those "illegals" then spend their under-the-table money on American consumer goods so it all gets recycled back into our economy. And no Americas healthcare policy is horrible and much in need of being fixed, but I would adore any country that both took care of its own and anyone who comes needing help. What does it say on the Statue of Liberty that Americans are so fond of? "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free". We claim to be open to anyone seeking freedom and the "American Dream" and yet do you know how amazingly difficult it is to become an American Citizen? Even after you do make it legal you are unjustly watched by the government. My father came to the United States fresh from Iran as an engineering student. He never did ANYTHING illegal or that could in any way entice the CIA to check him out, and was just a poor village boy in Iran, but still as an undergrad barely scraping by with a child and full blood American wife he has repeatedly been told by friends and business colleges of weird calls they get from the government asking for his personal information. Who wants that? It's not fair and it's NOT what America should stand for. And yes I'm sorry if I think that calling someone "a moron" "idiot", etc. is rude. I have not called you any of those things because though I think your process of thinking is extremely warped, you do sound educated so I won't be that rude. "Neo-conservatives" ARE just religious freaks, Bushes flock. Go back to say Regan "conservatives" and they made sense where "liberals" went crazy. But todays form of conservative is based solely on crazy ass Christians who want to impose their beliefs on everyone else and like to pretend America was founded on their religion so they have a right to make us all conform. And please, you talking about how "prejudice and hypocritical but I wouldn't expect anything else from a liberal" how is that not stereotyping? You're as much a hypocrite. And about the more educated states, it's true you can find it out for yourself. Me saying how all conservatives (todays conservatives) are redneck Bible thumpers is as bad as you saying those things about "simple minded tools" insinuating that anyone not like you is stupid, or that you're "glad there's someone with brains out there" when seeing there's another "conservative" to agree with you. You lecture me on assuming when you assume I'm a liberal? Yes I did get carried away, its annoying to come across a thread like this where all you all talk about having the "guts" to be conservative. Please you are being just as stereotypical and abrasive about other people’s ways of thinking as you always claim "liberals" are about yours. Stop throwing "hypocrite" around when you are one. And as an after thought on the whole "Hannity and Colems" show. Of course you can't stand to listen to Colems. I can't. Not the most "liberal" person you could find could. He's hired by FOX to play a “liberal”; of course he's going to be douche. FOX is probably the worst network if you're looking for fair and unbiased coverage. Just like there is a predominantly "liberal" media out there, FOX is predominantly "conservative".
  • ElisaRose
    September 22, 2005
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    You whine too much. We both said crap about each other, no one is the soul victim of word slinging here. And yes Colmes is a flaming liberal, if you watched Hannity and Colmes you'd know that. I didn't have to assume you were a liberal you came right out and said it, "It’s so interesting that it’s the more educated states (more people with college educations) on the coasts with more “wordly” people that vote more “liberal” and yet its you so smart Bible belters that get your way" That ignorant statement led me to believe that you think of yourself as an educated wordly liberal. You pulled the bible belter out of your ass because not once did I mention anything about my religious beliefs. I also have to comment more on your Fox News bashing, it isn't biased and it is fair, they report everything and sometimes even I can sit there and get angry at O'Reilly or Hannity but they are fair. The station only leans more toward conservatives because the conservatives want truth and not muddled up half truths. Fox shows what's really going on while a lot of the other news stations out there fail to report a lot of it. That is fact.
  • heresyistheway
    September 23, 2005
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    Yes we both said crap, I never said I was innocent. But reading through your other comments you have a very nasty habit on insulting people personally during what should be friendly debate. And FOX is not at all unbaised or fair, its all connected to the Bush administration and reports for that agenda. No one wants "half truths" no matter how much you like to demonize "liberals" so that's just a arrogant statement. I live in the Middle East and get far more "truthful" news because not only do I get newspapers from these regions but have friends whos family is being killed everyday and are involved with the whole shit. And I can tell you that FOX is a highly biased network. I have seen Hannity and Colmes and like I said, he IS a "flaming liberal" because FOX wanted soemone to portray liberals as overly PC muddlebrained idiots. And please stop saying "that is fact" to emphasise that you simply have a very strong opinion on, if it's not FACT it's not FACT.
  • ElisaRose
    September 23, 2005
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    First, I don't insult people in friendly debates. If you really did read my posts you'd see that when I do get angry its when someone says something extremely ignorant, arrogant, or plain hateful, maybe even all three. Don't try and make me look like all I do is insult people because I get way more insultful people yelling at me than I yell myself. You said you never claimed you were innocent but ya did, "I have not called you any of those things because though I think your process of thinking is extremely warped, you do sound educated so I won’t be that rude." Second, while Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity are Conservatives, they are not reporters! Fox's popular prime time line up does NOT pretend to offer hard-core news coverage, but commentary and debate. The fact that liberals do not like Fox's content does not indicate a right-wing bias any more than the "L.A. Times" traditionally liberal editorials necessarily indicate prejudiced coverage. Here's a prime example of media bias. Do you remember when Kerry was running for president and his affair with some woman and the media said that the story was unsubstantiated, based on hearsay, and not worthy of major news? Remember when the media was pushing their accusation about Bush and his National Guard service, despite the fact that Bush had mounds of records, dental x-rays and an honorable discharge from the military as proof of his service? Why wouldn't the media throw that accusation out as unsubstantial and hearsay? So there's the proof. Also, I'm sorry you live in the middle east, I know I wouldn't want to live there.
  • heresyistheway
    September 26, 2005
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    No I never did personally insult you. I never called you an "idiot" but I did make stereotypes on what really is a stereotypical party (liberals and conservaitves) and that was wrong. And while the actual news programme of FOX is not as blatant as O'Rilley and all of them, it does subtely emitt news that would go against the message it wishes to send. But other stations that are claimed to be more "liberal" don't even have it all. How long did it take Americans to get those pictures of the soldiers coffins? Outside of the American Bubble that information of the high death tolls was old news. And of course media and hollywood and all that shit is going to jump at the chance to spit on authority, it's the natural (but not always correct) way of things. The fact that Bush gets so much more flack is because he's so uncommonly horrid. But the media doesn't even get him on what they should. Who honestly cares if a president has had an affair? Wasen't a soldier? Snorted coke at 20? No one SHOULD. They should focus more on how his "environmental bills" hurt our environment, how he sold off thousands of wild horses to make more room for his fucking cattle buddies, how "Leave No Child Behind" is a miserable failure and rejected by most teachers, how his pushing for abstinence only lessons in our public schools is only resulting in MORE unprotected sex. And that's just inner-nation problems that man is creating. The media is always at odds with the truth because the truth rarely sells, both sides are guilty of bias. But FOX is more biased than should be acceptable if it claims to be a "true" news source.
  • Axilla2
    October 13, 2005
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    It seems apparent that the immagration problem in this country has reached a climax over recent years, to the point where more and more Americans are beginning to suffer. I am sick and tired of the influx of illegal immigrants coming to this country, namely Hispanics. Where do I begin, for starters, let me say that the phrase "drain on the economy" does not even begin to exemplify the situation that we have endured at the hand of these people. I'll give you a quick scenario; 19 year old Mexican female, makes it into the country while toting 2 toddlers and one on the way. She makes it in (illegally), and meanwhile has left her two oldest children with the rest of her tribe of a family in Mexico. She gains employment through falsifying papers and starts a life here. By age 22 she has a total of 9 children 4 of which are attending public schools, 2 are toddlers, and the other four are in Mexico cashing the checks she sends them from America. This woman pays no taxes, contributes nothing but deliquent children to our streets, and sends the little money she has left over to Mexico. Someone please explain to me why this is so frequently the case? And if you think I just made that up, try again because that is the story of a woman who works as a clothing presser and the clothing store I work at. Curious as to how I found all this out? Well lets put it this way, I first found out she was illegal when she had one of the english speaking hispanics that work with her offer me 5,000 dollars cash to marry her. SICKENING, purely SICKENING. Shame on anyone who supports illegals or sympathizes with them. America has it's own problems lets start taking care of our own a little more.
  • ElisaRose
    October 21, 2005
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    Axilla, I agree with you 100%.
  • heresyistheway
    November 10, 2005
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    Have you no compassion? A poor 19 year old girl just trying to make a better life for her and her children? I love how the people that oppose immigration the most are Conservitives, who also claim to be Christian most of the time. I would THINK a Christian would have more care for a human person than money, but I guess that's just hypocracy for you. And I made a comment a long time ago on ElisaRose's last comment, but for some reason it got deleted. So here's the reply. Making a personal insult because you think someones being irrational, or because they "did it first" is childish. And NO I never did personally insult you, I never said "You 'ElisaRose' are stupid". And they're not reporters for the main news show, but it's a newsnetwork is it not? It's not presented as hard news (though their real news show is biased too) but people get news from hearing debates too, they gain information from hearing that sort of thing, and when there's no real oppisition present they're only getting one sided commentary, that's very irrisonsible of any network that pledges in any of their shows to give "true and unbiased coverage". And no News show in the States that I've seen is reliable or completely unbiased. They're MEDIDA they want to sell, they want to get talked about, and I'm sure each huge network that controls them has some agenda with one politician or anothe r(ie Fox being Bush's bitch). While I don't like living here either, as an expat child going to a very fortified American International School with unnerving security standars everwhere, maybe a trip out of the American Bubble would do you some good. News here is biased too, but you get glimpes of a side you never see in the States, just as someone here going there would. Getting a little culture wouldn't hurt.
  • heresyistheway
    November 10, 2005
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    Have you no compassion? A poor 19 year old girl just trying to make a better life for her and her children? I love how the people that oppose immigration the most are Conservitives, who also claim to be Christian most of the time. I would THINK a Christian would have more care for a human person than money, but I guess that's just hypocracy for you. And I made a comment a long time ago on ElisaRose's last comment, but for some reason it got deleted. So here's the reply. Making a personal insult because you think someones being irrational, or because they "did it first" is childish. And NO I never did personally insult you, I never said "You 'ElisaRose' are stupid". And they're not reporters for the main news show, but it's a newsnetwork is it not? It's not presented as hard news (though their real news show is biased too) but people get news from hearing debates too, they gain information from hearing that sort of thing, and when there's no real oppisition present they're only getting one sided commentary, that's very irrisonsible of any network that pledges in any of their shows to give "true and unbiased coverage". And no News show in the States that I've seen is reliable or completely unbiased. They're MEDIDA they want to sell, they want to get talked about, and I'm sure each huge network that controls them has some agenda with one politician or anothe r(ie Fox being Bush's bitch). While I don't like living here either, as an expat child going to a very fortified American International School with unnerving security standars everwhere, maybe a trip out of the American Bubble would do you some good. News here is biased too, but you get glimpes of a side you never see in the States, just as someone here going there would. Getting a little culture wouldn't hurt.
  • ElisaRose
    November 12, 2005
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    How do you know I can't see past my 'American bubble'? A bit presumptious. I also don't care if you insult me because it's funny when you do. Also, there is nothing wrong with immigration, the only problem I have is ILLEGAL as in against the law immigration. I don't like when they come here and take everything and give nothing in return. They don't pay taxes and they get free healthcare. Before my aunt died of cancer she had to take these pills that cost her about a grand a bottle while an illigal immigrant gets it for free. THAT makes me angry and I won't apologize for it. _________________________________________________ Also, why is FOXNEWS Bush's bitch because they happen to agree with him? Would you call CNN Kerry or Clinton's bitch because they agree with them?
  • cafegroundzero
    December 12, 2005
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    Interview with Andrea Cruz

    [Andrea Cruz is a social worker and community activist who directs South East Georgia Community Centre, in Lyons, Toombs County, Georgia. I was fortunate to be able to visit, meet her for the first time, and interview her on a sunny winter day, a Tuesday last week. Here are some excerpts from our interview]: cafegroundzero: As you may have heard, Homeland Intelligence and the Immigration and Naturalization Service has announced some policy changes recently. What news has filtered down to the Hispanic or indigenous Latin American immigrants here in this (southeastern)part of Georgia? A. Cruz: Very few people understand this... We have a radio show which puts out the word. It's depressing. (The U.S. governement and the state of Georgia) is making it very hard to allow these people to come together, to come out --to become more identifiable--into the communities...It's like they're going underground. Q. Does this new policy really grant an immigrant a possibility to enter into a permanent legal status? A. Cruz: There's no form. They're not giving them any options. It's basically a joke. We're supposed to have intelligent people in the country, but they don't see beyond their (finite) vision. Q. So what does the Guest Worker program do for Hispanic immigrants? A. I think it's a way to trap these people. Six years (they work in this country), and you're out. They're able to detect that you left the country. What are they (then) going to do in Mexico? Starve? Because that's what they're doing in Mexico. Q. Has there been any other program put forward? A. Cruz: We need to have a program which will offer them permanent legal status. We all have dreams. We live in a country of dreams. We want to see our people salir adelante, move forward. Another thing, we're a country of immigrants. So it's really hard to go home in the evenings, and think what my country-- the USA-- is doing to (Hispanic immigrants). These people are the hands that feed us, that plant, sew, harvest, butcher... that make all these wonderful carpets for our homes. cafegroundzero: Many Americans are saying that the undocumented aliens are taking away jobs, are depressing the wages. What do you say to that? ...As advocates we need to be proven wrong. We need to be shown that they are NOT needed. That they're taking away jobs from other Americans--that's a big lie. I personally don't practice politics. I practice policy. (I provide) low level information that can be shared with real people who need to hear it. Information that they can use is what we offer. cafegroundzero: Are there any people going to other parties or institutions to try to get solutions, to say "THIS is what we need?" A. Cruz: The National Council of La Raza, MALDEF, LULAC, they're taking these issues higher. There are a lot of things that need to be done. I'm in the right place to see that these people are educated at a local level. cafegroundzero: To you all, what is a local level? A. Cruz: At a local level-- county, city, town... At the state level the leadership are blind to reality. They need to tackle these issues that eare confronting the people locally.

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