There are 24 choices, 4 votes for ennoia's debate

How do we know religion isn't just brainwashing?

Millions have a religious faith.

But WHY?

Are there actually any *logical* reasons?

(please, no appeals to "you're not a christian, so you don't understand God!" - which is neither philosophy or very sensible if you're supporting the anti-brainwash side...)


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  • NOT TRUE!!!
    I don't believe all of religion is brainwashing at all. There are the one or two radical cults etc that may take up 'brainwashing' in order to gain followers, but mostly religion is sensible. Religion is, always has and always will be a faith and belief system. I FEEL and CHOOSE to follow what I follow. I don't believe anyone has ever forced me to think a particular way or been told stories I MUST believe.

    If you don't feel or believe what you are being told, then leave, ask for guidance whatever. BUT they aren't exactly trying to brainwash you into believing a particular way. You are given a choice that you agree with, don't or are undecided with. YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO DO OR SAY ANYTHING.

    I would probably add more to this but I've got to go and I'm sick of debates that always end up criticizing others for no reason. If you have a problem or want more send a message to my profile. TA TA.
    Voted for by tfry.
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  • It's hard to say.
    Imagine that you are a child, not very familiar with how the world works. You have only started going to school, learning elementary concepts of mathematics and science, asking your parents where babies come from and being told a story about a stork. Mind the cliche.
    As a child, you absorb the knowledge quickly, with a clear and eager mind. It is easier to accept facts than to question them and find out for yourself, and you have not yet learned of a means to do so, or even a reason to doubt what you're told. Your parents feed you everything you know, as well as your teachers.
    Now imagine that your parents take you to church every week, and tell you that if you read the Bible and do what it says, God will love you and accept you into heaven. Otherwise, he'll throw you into a pit of fire where you'll be tortured with pitchforks for eternity.
    So, is following these beliefs your personal choice? or did you have a choice in this scenario?

    Agreeably, at school, a scientist can tell you that all people came from monkeys, and you may believe this as well.

    The difference, of course, is the method used to reach these results. God comes from a book, or a story or tradition passed down orally through the generations, or illogical deductions stating that "since there's no hard evidence proving beyond a doubt that there's any other explanation, then it must be God's doing".

    However, with a truly open mind, one cannot reject religious ideas completely. I will admit that, logically, they are illogical. It would be logical to scientifically deduce solutions to problems. However, our logic could just be the curse of knowledge, brought upon us by God because Eve ate the apple. It's never possible to know the truth, and thinking on such levels can never go past the point of speculation.

    So does it make more sense to be logical, or to blindly trust the ideas behind religion? Certainly, a scientific person may tell a religious person that they are being "illogical", but this should not mean much to the religious person. Logic is not a concern to the religious - where they lack in logic, the scientist lacks in faith. These two sides are quite different, and only the person himself/herself can decide how to think.

    The problem is the aforementioned scenario - religion and its popularity is based on traditions, so children who have not learned both sides of the story are, in effect, forced into it. Sometimes, once they reach adulthood, they may choose to leave their faith and begin a logical lifestyle, or convert religions as their life experiences change their beliefs.

    To sum up my thoughts, religion itself is not "brainwashing". The responsibility can not be placed on a belief - it is the followers that have the potential to brainwash others.
    I believe that the mind experiences flux in a linear, gradual sort of way. Your mind or identity, or "soul" if you don't bind the word to a religious context, lies within your train of thought. You have your memories, and experiences, and mental abilities, and you use them together to form a belief structure. If you have a strong opinion on something, you probably won't just immediately change your mind and go to the other side - it will take a lot of work for your mind to get off the path you were set upon, by gradually feeding you thoughts that slowly convince you in small doses that what you believe may be wrong to you.

    What I'm getting at (respect to you if you've read this far) is that religion is not brainwashing - it is just a set of common beliefs, which may very well be true. However, it is the social level that executes these religions, makes it part of their lives.
    If your family chose some time ago to become part of a religion, and take you to church from a young age, how can you be expected to tell them you're a heathen and reject the beliefs that they have come to see as fact?
    It is as difficult as convincing a scientist with 6 more PhDs than you that evolution is barely possible - you'd feel silly. This, of course, is in essence brainwashing.
    If an adult with enough wisdom and experience to make a choice based on memories and experiences decides to join a religion, then that is in no way brainwashing.

    Another issue not touched upon is that many theologists, clergymen, and generally well-educated people who claim to be religious, do not literally take in the meanings of their religious texts and teachings. A religious text such as the Bible is often seen as a book of lessons, like Aesop's fables. We don't need to believe that Jesus is the son of God who died for our sins and came back as a ghost - the goal is to teach people about self-sacrifice for and kindness to others. It is open to interpretation - and you again have the choice of going to church and accepting a clergyman's interpretation, or deriving your own.

    As a final note, I would like to take my personal position on the matter. I am leaning toward the scientific method, which is responsible for all of our knowledge to date. The progress of logic and science has existed since the birth of mankind. We can prove this because every concept known by science can be broken down into its basic components - experimentation and experience - pretty much any living creature that has a brain (and many that don't, if you believe in pure instinct) is able to experiment and use these experiences. Monkeys can use tools, birds can build nests, etc. Evolution is the ultimate experiment - it explains that we come from the trial and error of nature.
    Religion, on the other hand, does not last as science does. To scale - Judaism has lasted for about 6000 years. Christianity, 2000 years. Remember those books you read about ancient Greek mythology? In Ancient Greece, this was not mythology but their religion, and it lasted past the fall of Greece. Countless other religions in various regions have come to pass - meanwhile their beliefs ranging greatly and often dividing into sects.

    I think that science is the "logical" choice, but if you've read what I've said so far, you'll know that it doesn't mean you should be brainwashed into believing everything a scientist says.
    Voted for by Supplyer.
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  • Use your own judgement
    Some religion is just brainwashing, but there are those based in real faith
    here a a few ways you can tell them apart

    1. do they claim to be the only truth? if so, beware!
    That is one of the first signs of a cult.

    2. do they DEMAND monitary contribution? I'm not talking about the usual ten percent, but excessive amounts of money as a condition of remaining in good standing in the church. if so, it is possible that they are trying to control your finances.this is especially true if they offer to take care of your personal needs in exchange for your financial independance.

    3.do they push for a closed comunity? if a church asks that you deal only with members, or buy only from church-related businesses, they are probably trying to isolate you.

    6. does the religion have a leader who claims to be more in touch with God than everyone else? if so, he or she is probably a false prophet.

    7 does the religion have it's own doctrine, which it claims is equal to other doctrines, but is in fact held in a higher regard? if so, it is probably false doctrine.

    8. does the religion actually discourage reading parts of it's own doctrine. or revise it's own doctrine from time to time? if so, they are probably hiding something.

    9. does the religion threaten to discipline or excommunicate people over minor offenses, such as asking the wrong questions. if so, they fear losing control.

    10.does the religion place you in the care of an overseer, who monitors your private life? if so, they do not trust you, and are fearful of what you may learn.

    I know these things because i live in an area that is heavily populated by Church Universal and Triumphant, and all of these things are true about CUT. that's why they're a cult. if anything resembles CUT in any way to me, I'm outta there! I've seen what they do to peoples lives, and they ain't doin' it to me!

    Voted for by NeferMaatNetjer.
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  • Very logical reasons
    Not necessary to disprove god. The brainwashing just didn't take - for millions. Many people don't realize the consequences of teaching children facts, then throwing in that they must accept the idea of god/s also as fact. From a very young age, reasoning abilities are damaged. Because it happens so young (for most), it is very hard to undo. It takes a lot of faulty reasoning to accept the bizarre and barbaric, and view it as loving and right. If a mother is seen favoring one child over the other, it is considered abhorrent. But when a god favors one group of people over the other (and also tells the favorites to kill off the others who don't satisfy the god's need for obedience[slavery], including children and animals(wtf), it's okay. Brainwashing isn't just a weird cult thing - mainstream religion uses repetition of its rules and family like acceptance for positive reinforcement as well. When everyone around you is doing it, especially family, it is bound to take. If you question things to the furthest extent, you'll get the throw-up-your-hands answer similar to 'we can't understand the grand design, the master plan, with our feeble brains'

    Ask yourself this every day without fear, without the taught (pre-programmed) responses: Why would a perfect, omnipotent, loving god create imperfect beings, only to punish them for it? If you do it without the taught fear, things get uncomfortable...and interesting. But for most, it's just not possible because it's a loop or flowchart. Every response will be pulled from the book, like rote memorization of multiplication tables.

    I'm glad I took the RED pill and woke up. )
    Voted for by kiwi888.
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