The bible was written by mortal man. It is said to be the words of God. So if that's the case then why didn't Jesus, the son of God, write the bible himself? So are the words of the Bible actually real.
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Intresting18% Voted for by Weydon, wandering poetess, Boudica, raven shadow 13, The Blind Bandit. (6 total)
Mankind is known for wanting power. So what better way to get power than saying the words they wrote are the words of god? Not only that but the bible is also not complete. So if you if put all these things together it makes me wonder why didn't jesus write the bible in the first place. Or did he and the church didn't like what he write so they eliminated it from history?
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His purpose was to save Mankind, not promote scripture.9% Voted for by wisdomsearch, bachelorette, NeferMaatNetjer.
Jesus did not come to promote the Bible. He wanted people to start thinking so that Earth could be saved. The people of his time were not thinking well. They were living by the rigid rules of Scripture. Jesus opposed the Pharisees because they lived by the rule book of scripture to the letter, while ignoring the sinful state of their own souls. Unfortuneatly, Christianity has become a lot like that today and Jesus would oppose it. He would be trying to wake the people up to think with wisdom and common sense, not demanding they "accept" Jesus as some kind of god.
Jesus is reported to have said, "Why do you call me good? Only your Father who is Heaven is good."
He is also recorded to have said that he expected his followers to do greater things than he.
He was not setting himself up as "God." It was only the church that did this later on.
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I hope you arent one of those Bahai fellows.
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Reply to TeChNoWC
I am not Bahai fellow. Not even sure what they believe. I am one who believes most of what Jesus said, thought and did never was recorded, or if it was, it was destroyed. I also know that there has been a lot of manipulation of the gospels through the centuries and picking and choosing of which ones to use to build Christianity. The so-called "Canon" is made up og gospels written 35-70 yearws after Jesus had died. Think of someone well known in your town who lived 35 years ago and then think of writing an account of their lives now. How accurate would it be? How inclusive? Consider also you are living in a time when there are no books and most people are illiterate. The Bible writers all had agendas. This is evident in the many discrepancies between gospels. Some immediately start saying I have been reading too much Da Vince Code when I say these things. Well, I have never read or seen it, and that really has nothing to do with this. That is a book written to make money, not get at the truth. I have thought these things for forty years. I do believe the early church tried to make Jesus into Christ in order to establish legitimacy with the people. But I don't Jesus ever claimed to be God, nor do I believe he ever intended to start a church. His goal was to wake the people up in his day - to get them to start thinking. This is clearest in the earliest gospels in the Bible (Matthew) which does not attempt to portray Jesus as God. The only gospel that strongly promotes the idea of Jesus being God is John. Well, now maybe you see a little bit where I am coming from. -
Why believe, considering the uncertainty? You are not sure what to believe, so how do you even know if Jesus existed or if He was a good fellow or rather a sleaze or even an evil dictator? Sorry, but your faith must be so flawed - it is hard enough, without having to be a 'conspiracy theorist' over the innerancy of the bible. I either believe it all, or it is flawed, and therefore wrong. How do you believe without being a foundationalist, or for that matter, how can you be a foundationalist without any foundational truth?
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Do you believe Jesus to be a prophet from God?
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to answer that question is actually qite easy... things are written for a pupose, to its audeance. so where the gospels. take things not literal but the meaning which they convey to that audeance of that time. Jesus didnt write anything because he believed above all else in love by example which will lead to a society where love dominates in every aspect of it. we could call that the closes you can get to Utopia, which ofcourse means nowhere.
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Cuts Out Bragging6% Voted for by ForbiddensCure, NeferMaatNetjer.
If Jesus wrote the Bible, it would sound like he was saying "Hey, I am awesome!". Having people other than Jesus or God himself write the Bible shows faith instead of a Bragfest. God chose who he wanted to write the Bible. Those people could have refused. Written this way, it is more authentic because people wrote it-they wouldn't write things that make this other guy sound so good if it wasn't true.
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Of course they would.
Playing Devils advocate, I can think of plenty of reasons they would have written "things that make this other guy sound so good if it wasn't true". First of all, by the time the bible was written he was dead, so they weren't really conceding any power to him. In fact, they were gaining power by writing a book that told people how to act and name dropping to give it some credibility. They were also gaining power by suggesting that not everyone could commune with God directly or interpret his words (theirs) without help. Tada! A whole class of people who make their living telling people what God wants and what he means by the things he (they) said in the bible. As a side note: they made LOTS of money doing it.
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Dyslexia6% Voted for by nanrek, Nephilem.
Maybe Jesus had dyslexia?
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Yes Word of God power is Gods6% Voted for by frndofyaweh, SoS.
You seem to forget; The Bible is a book about Gods power and mans weakness. Why would a man wishing power, write down claims that power is not mans, but for God to have and give it?
In order for our choice to be ours, God cannot write it Himself, nor His Son. God grants vision to those He chooses. The Words and stories in the Bible will justify themselves. Read and see for yourself.
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"Why would a man wishing power, write down claims that power is not mans, but for God to have and give it?" Subtlety. "In order for our choice to be ours, God cannot write it Himself," Why not? I have often heard claims that even though God didn't physically write it, it is verbatim the Word of God. So what's the difference He physically wrote it, or used another guy as a pen?
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Another guy as a pen
That is the point of it, right. heheee. Believing in Faith alone, has an edifying watermark to the believers. ----- A man was able to be the vessel for the Holy Spirit. This signifies Gods power through man. This also gives us hope for our future and eternital life. ----- Men who loved God like a son to a Father, were obedient men and meek men. They were willing vessels for Gods Hand. This is just one of the watermarks of faith, most important to all who believe. ----- How come, no man has been able to duplicate the complexity of the Living Word? How is it that a super computer, cannot duplicate the complex dimensions of just one passage, from the Bible? Have any of you ever compared the Koran and Bible and the Morman Book, Pearl of Great Price, the Apocryphial books? There most certainly is a noticed difference in the style, writ and messages, complexities, of all these different books. When an open hearted as well as open minded person, compares them; they will see that all of the others lack something very significant. The other books when put beside the Bible are not alive. They do not speak to the heart in an undescribable way, such as the Bible does. -
"A man was able to be the vessel for the Holy Spirit. This signifies Gods power through man. This also gives us hope for our future and eternital life." I'd be more hopeful if God revealed Himself to the world as often as He "did" back in Biblical times. "Men who loved God like a son to a Father, were obedient men and meek men. They were willing vessels for Gods Hand. This is just one of the watermarks of faith, most important to all who believe." That doesn't answer the question asked. That's great for them. It really is. But why didn't God write it himself? Laziness? "How come, no man has been able to duplicate the complexity of the Living Word?" That's opinion. "How is it that a super computer, cannot duplicate the complex dimensions of just one passage, from the Bible?" Because "super-computers" can't even write a good novel yet. "Have any of you ever compared the Koran and Bible" Yes. " and the Morman Book" Yes. "Pearl of Great Price," No. " the Apocryphial books?" Yes. "The other books when put beside the Bible are not alive. They do not speak to the heart in an undescribable way, such as the Bible does." It sounds like you're having a discussion of prefered music. "Yes, metal is all well and good and it takes astounding talent to pull it off. But it cannot speak with your soul in the way blues can." Yeah. Ok. Aesthetic appreciation of your relgion over another. This means nothing to proving yours is right (Aside from being right to you) and nothing to do with answering why God didn't physically write it himself.
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quran
u just c the quran. u will just know how allah has sent it to us. he sent prophet muhammed to us as a messenger of allah. -
See.
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Yes I do see
But like I have said before. There is a special seeing; only Believers in Christ can see and NO MAN can relate it to another. It must be felt by the individual, to be understood. Same answer as many times in the past: FAITH. If God wrote it; we would have undeniable physical proof of Gods existance. Then you would not believe in Him on Faith, but on evidence. No choice for you now. It is either believe in the facts or deny the evidence and look silly. ----- “A man was able to be the vessel for the Holy Spirit. This signifies Gods power through man. This also gives us hope for our future and eternital life.” ----- Weydon said; I’d be more hopeful if God revealed Himself to the world as often as He “did” back in Biblical times. ----- He still does. What you seem to be missing is the fact that those revelations were to the believers in Bible times and He still reveals Himself to us today. Many times in a day even. Only you are not taking part in it. It is still being written and documented also, you just are not wanting to find it and God has always done one thing the same; open invitation, but not in your face. We must come to Him and ask for Him to come into us. Then you will begin to see things occur in your life that are only explainable in one way. ----- Weydon: friend,....do you not see, that God has helped me give answers to you; right here before you now and in many topics here. That is correct friend; God answers you through a mans keyboard. Many times I have been given a response to you, by prayer with Father and He DOES answer us. ----- When I compared the Quran and Bible. I was on a quest for God, a spiritual quest for truth. I did not accept the Bible either back then, but all of the books I searcherd felt dead. They seemed Easily dreamt up by men or copied from God Himself and it was very very clear to me, as I studied. I began to understand why they say; The Bible is alive, because the verses although never changing their words, still changed there message for a timeless existance. No other book I studied could do this neat trick. It is like magic, I guess you could say.--------------------------------- Jesus explained it also: Only those who seek it can see it and those who have it cannot describe it to those who do not. -
"But like I have said before. There is a special seeing; only Believers in Christ can see and NO MAN can relate it to another. It must be felt by the individual, to be understood." This can also be applied to musical taste, but more to the point: what sulthan said. He feels as you do, but about the quran. You have no more "proof" than he does. There's nothing wrong with that, but you are both equally right about which book speaks more correctly. "If God wrote it; we would have undeniable physical proof of Gods existance. Then you would not believe in Him on Faith, but on evidence. No choice for you now. It is either believe in the facts or deny the evidence and look silly." AND!? Why is He doign this to us? What kind of child makes a test that goes: "Believe in me even though I defy all logic and will never give you any reason to aside from ancient texts. You have every bit of reason to believe in me as you do any other wrong-religion. OH, and before I forget, everything else you do on this world SHOULD be with logic and reasoning. Choose 'wisely' (luckily) and I'll see you when you die (or not!)."? ------------------------------- "He still does. What you seem to be missing is the fact that those revelations were to the believers in Bible times and He still reveals Himself to us today. Many times in a day even." Preposterous. In the Bible His deeds affected the world. Leveled cities that opposed His believers. Scoureged non-believers, rewarded the faithful. Bread rained from the sky because people were hungry. Today turmoil is everywhere, OVER belief in Him and He won't even come down and say "Chill.", let alone STOP the wrong side. People starve EVERYDAY (FACT, none of that "only if you believe" stuff)--WHERE'S THERE RAINING BREAD? Why would He so often reveal Himself to the converted? I understand not abandoning them once they reach whatever level you say is required, but what about the rest of us? We are the lost sheep. We are the prodigal sons asking our Father for support. And we are still alone. "Only you are not taking part in it. It is still being written and documented also, you just are not wanting to find it" Now I'm interested. Are people writing down the "New-New Testement" as we speak? "God has always done one thing the same; open invitation, but not in your face. We must come to Him and ask for Him to come into us. Then you will begin to see things occur in your life that are only explainable in one way." I have come to Him. I have begged with Him. I have seen the pain and horror in the world at large and in every single person's personal life. The most I have seen change is the most mild sense of comfort in my heart, that I'll never know if it is my subconcious, God, or appreciation of irony (or alcohol...or a combination!). -------------------- "Weydon: friend,....do you not see, that God has helped me give answers to you; right here before you now and in many topics here. That is correct friend; God answers you through a mans keyboard. Many times I have been given a response to you, by prayer with Father and He DOES answer us." I respect you very much frnd, but your beliefs conflict with the very core of my beliefs. Both rationality and natural inclination tell me that in our differening relgious and ethical beliefs that I am right. I can not go against this because there's a chance God felt bad for my prayers so sent you along. There's an equal chance that sulthan was sent by God, or someone else, or ME for YOU. Sometimes I feel when lost on smaller issues that something indirectly or directly advises me to a solution and I think "Hmm..." but I also know that it's very likely that you yourself would disagree with my choice or outcome. ------------------------- "The Bible is alive, because the verses although never changing their words, still changed there message for a timeless existance. No other book I studied could do this neat trick." I think that's great for you, but it has had quite the opposite affect on me. It has it's good points and bad points--and the bad points are really bad. I feel it has become rather outdated and far too rigid for society.
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Why is society correct?
Based on your very logic system; is the Bible too rigid or is our society too lax and lenient? ----- Who chooses the line between, harsh law and reasonable law? ----- My Bible answers these things and no other Book can answer them, without repeating Bible wisdoms. Ancient is still correct even today. ----- 6 Day war; sept.1949 and on the seventh day was the Jewish sabbath and Isreal was a new nation and they rested. That prophecy was in Isaiah, 4000 years ago. from a military standpoint; The 6 day war is considered strategic genious or plain miracle event. No other battle compares. ----- 1987 USSR falls, sickle and hammer flag comes down and bear flag goes back up, after 70 years of communist oppression. In Isaiah this was predicted precisely. Nostradamus cannot compare to the details of these prophecies. "....And the country known as Rosh(Russia) under the sign of the bear, shall be oppressed for 70 years...." 1917 the russian Zsar and his entire family are massacred, murdered and Marxism performs a successful coop. Communism fell at 70 years in 1987, exactly to the day! ----- 1988 second exodus to Isreal; thousands of Hebrews return to their homeland after 2000 years of wandering and tent cities pop up all over the Gaza strip. Not only the old prophets, but Jesus Himself said this would occur, just before He returns. ----- God is still raising cities and razing cities, make no mistake on that friend. I have 100's of these prophecies and they are mostly occurring in present times. ----- Jesus said that Earthquakes would increase just before His return. 1969 to 1979 only 5 earthquakes over 5.0 on the richter scale occurred. 1999 and 2006 over 100 and counting over 5.0 on the richter scale. ------ There are literally 100's of these prophecies coming true or evidentially substantiated in the recent past. ----- all those Bible stories occurred over a span of 4000 and better years. most of them were 100's of years apart. Look at today in a larger expanse and it is clear that each heavenly day brings us a revelation, a world wide change or event. History calls them reinaisance periods, if you would like. God does not cause cancer man caused it. Man forces Gods hand in every case, because God must act to protect the innocents, or He truly would be an uncaring god. -
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"Based on your very logic system; is the Bible too rigid or is our society too lax and lenient? Who chooses the line between, harsh law and reasonable law?" Such is the nature of philosophy. You could go into a whole philosophical debate about whether or not anything IS right or wrong outside of mere point of views, but I naturally believe there is. I have applied great thought into and reached the view that the Bible is too rigid, while society is progressing towards somethign better. Though society itself is too rigid if you ask me. But the change needs to be gradual or it will fail. ---------- "The 6 day war is considered strategic genious or plain miracle event. No other battle compares." Genius and perfect oppurtunities. I do not know of anything divine happening, and the conflict in the area still goes on today. I guess God's onetime involvement in a "holy war" since Biblical times was short-lived. ---------- "1987 USSR falls, sickle and hammer flag comes down and bear flag goes back up, after 70 years of communist oppression. In Isaiah this was predicted precisely. Nostradamus cannot compare to the details of these prophecies. ”....And the country known as Rosh(Russia) under the sign of the bear, shall be oppressed for 70 years….” 1917 the russian Zsar and his entire family are massacred, murdered and Marxism performs a successful coop. Communism fell at 70 years in 1987, exactly to the day!" What is that from? Regardless, I don't really believe in any prophecies really. Seems to go against free will, and makes me feel insulted that God was able to map THAT out 1000's of years later for unknown reasons, but couldn't stop other suffering. ----------- "Jesus said that Earthquakes would increase just before His return. 1969 to 1979 only 5 earthquakes over 5.0 on the richter scale occurred. 1999 and 2006 over 100 and counting over 5.0 on the richter scale." Why would He do this? People are dying and their surviving loved ones are devestated. Where is He? ----------- "all those Bible stories occurred over a span of 4000 and better years. most of them were 100’s of years apart." True. "God does not cause cancer man caused it." What? "Man forces Gods hand in every case, because God must act to protect the innocents, or He truly would be an uncaring god." I don't understand. Innocents are hurt every second.
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Me the same!
"I have seen the pain and horror in the world at large and in every single person’s personal life. The most I have seen change is the most mild sense of comfort in my heart, that I’ll never know if it is my subconcious, God, or appreciation of irony (or alcohol…or a combination!)." ----- There you have it. It really takes faith. We actually think alike. pain and suffering started 1000's of years ago, but with each milinnium(or heavenly day) we get closere to the Father. Jesus was born on day four and 2000 years later we are on the eveing of day six. Pain and suffering is about to lose the battle, Weydon and it is going to go out with a huge fight. I know God is real, because I plead also and sometimes the answer is not apparent or takes longer than our human mind can wait. ----- I have suffering and my loved ones parish. Hope for eternity makes this easier to understand, but I still feel the hurt and sorrow. A tornado can strike my city and kill many of my friends, but as Believer in Christ; I feel sorrow but cannot be emotionally traumatized by the damages, because of hope, becuase of my peaceful wisdom and knowledge, becuase I understand that these things must occur as they have been set in motion by us and God will use our mistakes, to actually turn things around. In God all bad things, will eventually work for ultimate good. Rains on the just and the unjust, but flowers grow from the rains, the flower is eaten by a deer, but the deer grows from this. -
"Pain and suffering is about to lose the battle, Weydon and it is going to go out with a huge fight." Can't wait :( ----- "because of hope, becuase of my peaceful wisdom and knowledge, becuase I understand that these things must occur as they have been set in motion by us and God will use our mistakes, to actually turn things around." I wish I could see things like that. I really do. But these things can only make me bitter and frustrated. I can not even comprehend an explanation. All I can hope for is that He will forgive me for being so angry and presumptuous, if that's even something He would care enough about to require forgiveness for. "In God all bad things, will eventually work for ultimate good." I refuse to believe that whatever "ultimate good" we're going towards couldn't have been achieved WITHOUT most of the horrors we have around us.
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Well guess you must be there...
Patty needed by-pass surgery and things looked grim. Her son asked for prayer and as the second day of prayer came up; Over night: Patty suddenly improved with medication alone. Surgery had even been scheduled for that morning. Her son is now wanting to go to church and know how Father did this. True story and God made a heart attack save a sons life. Bad was turned into good. pattys over eating caused the H.A., God did the good parts to end it. Now it is our choice to believe; was it God, a miracle, medicine or just a coincidence. -
I refuse to believe that everytime someone DIDN'T get a miraculous cure it was because no one prayed for them.
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Me too.
Bible shows that intercession is not always an Earthly request. After seeing 100's of similar cases, it gets pretty hard to NOT believe, there must be something to it. Of the four choices I gave above; coincidence is far from correct. Too many eye-witness accounts for the believers who are active in prayer. -
This explains nothing. I want to apoligze for sounding angry lately with these posts, but something like this can only infuriate me. If it's so simple to save people, why aren't more saved? Why were only 100's worthy of God's healing hand? Everyone else wasn't good enough? Too many people.
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They did not ask and God only invites
Your going back to the same point though: God cannot intervene and heal everyone, because everyone has not invited Him. For God to truly be a loving and just God; He must allow us to come to Him without being swayed or forced. Proof of God is for those who do not need it. Those who believe they must have proof to belief in God; have just missed why they can never believe: becuase they want the proof. they cancel their ability to understand God and believe on faith alone. This will answer nothing either, but because of the complexity of Gods Word, it does help to explain why Jesus could never write it Himself. He is Humbliness incarnate, Meek and mild. Writing it Himself would have taken the eyewitness humans out of it and taken the interaction between Father and children out of it. The Bible although burned into copper tablets by the finger Of Christ, would have been destroyed and forgotten, unless the eye-witnesses accounted it. then it becomes a best seller, so to speak. You are watching prophecy come true today, just watch CNN/MSNBC: what is happening right now in Isreal is not a coincidence it is prophetic and a wrning signal to the entire world. Even a slightly curious person, would tend to wonder; why this small obscure country is so hated and so focused on by all Nations. Watch closely: more countries will join in on this war and then the next occurance will be a world wide out-cry for peace such as never heard before. Strangely China is silent in this right now: Of course the Bible does say, "Beware the dragon of the east for when she awakens" China is the sleeping dragon that has all the might behnd her and when China finally takes an initiative of any kind, the whole world should take heed. Russia was never the superpower the world thought it to be and the Bible said that also. China is the one we need to look at here. All in the Bible and all coming true. -
"Your going back to the same point though: God cannot intervene and heal everyone, because everyone has not invited Him." We've already covered this. I refuse to believe that EVERY person who never recovered from horrible illness or accident simply didn't invite God. ". He is Humbliness incarnate, Meek and mild. Writing it Himself would have taken the eyewitness humans out of it and taken the interaction between Father and children out of it. The Bible although burned into copper tablets by the finger Of Christ, would have been destroyed and forgotten, unless the eye-witnesses accounted it. then it becomes a best seller, so to speak." Why wouldn't He at least write on book Himself? "You are watching prophecy come true today..." Yeah, thanks a whole lot God...You randomly decided to warn us about situations on Earth in rather obscure and ambiguous passages in ancient texts. God doesn't just want blind obedience, He also wants people that have a penchant for solving riddles.
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You still aren't getting the Uno numero
You keep calling it ancient text and obscure. You still have not read it with your heart, instead of your head. the Word is forever young Weydon. It is very clear and actually speaks right to your personal and most private needs. It is truly alive friend. ----- It makes claims no other human author in mans history would dare to make and is proven always correct, by those who experience the Bible, not just read and study it. ----- Not blind obedience, personal desire, out of my love for Him. ----- Do not look first for solutions to the Bibles text. Instead, look for the personal message It is going to give to you. ----- Jesus said, I am the Word and the Life. Trinity is not just a trinity, Jesus is that "Word". That is why the Bible is called The Bible(Greek meaning; the word) Jesus is the Bible. ----- *Did you know; there is one of Jesus' characteristics or future life experiences, themed someplace, in every book of the Bible? * Each book has a prophecy of something about Jesus, who is still not yet born, when it was written. Isaiah is full of this and more and 2000 years later, precisely confirmed and another two thousand, and more confirmed. In Genesis; it is Adam himself. In Exodus; Moses depicts over a dozen acts and characteristic behaviors of the Christ. Numbers; the crucifiction is portrayed: Jesus relates this in John 3:14 "and as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up. now read Numbers 21:4-9 and you see how Moses lifts up the brass serpent on a stake. ----- I can do them all one by one if you wish? All of these intricate, intertwining messages and prophecies, that somehow dozens of authors who never met managed to intermingle and connect, even when they had not read the other authors words. These men who helped write Gods message; lived thousands of years apart, yet somehow managed to make no mistakes in these woven connections, codes, prophecies, truths, events, down to the smallest details. Yet not one mistake or contradiction by these mere human authors. The hand of God was there inspiration, revelation and spiritual divination. -
"You keep calling it ancient text and obscure. You still have not read it with your heart, instead of your head. " This is an unfair request. I can ask you to do the same thing with my Zelda manual and make wild claims about the evidenced truths it holds, but you'll never see until you read it right. ------------------- "It makes claims no other human author in mans history would dare to make and is proven always correct, by those who experience the Bible, not just read and study it." Says you and every other religion, including Scientology for goodness sakes. -------------------- "Not blind obedience, personal desire, out of my love for Him." You're just adding a step. You personally desire out of love for Him to blindly obey whatever He demands or else you go to hell. --------------- "Do not look first for solutions to the Bibles text. Instead, look for the personal message It is going to give to you." That's the only thing I looked for even as a child because that's its purpose--portraying messages to the reader. ------------------------- "Jesus said, I am the Word and the Life. Trinity is not just a trinity, Jesus is that “Word”. That is why the Bible is called The Bible(Greek meaning; the word) Jesus is the Bible." That's a sudden turn around from your original stance. Regardless, this just raises more questions. If He's our real Bible, why would God kill Him(self) off after only 30 or so years, leaving the rest of us to speculate which author was right in getting down what He was more or less saying? And aren't most of the "Chinese shall take over the world!!!" texts from things Jesus never even talked about? ------------------------- "Each book has a prophecy of something about Jesus, who is still not yet born, when it was written" Yes, yes. And according to the Jews, the Messiah is still coming and loose examples of a crucifiction (something put upon countless people) are interpreted as something else. ----------------- "I can do them all one by one if you wish? " Be my guest, but interpretting texts into prophecies isn't going to do much to me. If it said "There's gonna be this thing, where My Son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth (born in Bethlehem), will be crucified, but SHHHH" I might go "Well that's kinda weird...". But aside from that this is kind of lost on me. "Yet not one mistake or contradiction" Let's not get into that again...
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i love the zelda games :)
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lol, you a fan of Zelda?
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lol yeah I guess I am. I haven't played any of the ones that came out since the ones on Nintendo 64, but I liked all of the other ones a lot (Except for the second one on NES...). Oh and I was always Zelda/Sheik in that Smash Brothers game...which actually has little to do with being a fan of the game and just liking quicker characters lol
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I agree; no more prophetic crap
“Not blind obedience, personal desire, out of my love for Him.” [Q]You’re just adding a step. You personally desire out of love for Him to blindly obey whatever He demands or else you go to hell.[/Q] ----- Let me clarify this once more; I desire to know Him and the more I do, the more I love Him. So....I have a need, a desire to understand what makes Him happy and what he likes to relate about. So....I read His guide to knowing Him; the Bible. ----- What step is there Weydon, that is not also a step in any relationship? ----- And if Zelda were a real person whom you loved and adored and also the author of the manual about himself; would you not read it with your heart? ----- What of this "blindness"? I already told you; Jesus said I would see what others do not see. The reason you say my obedience is blind is because you are the one Jesus spoke of. Searching, deeply searching the message and still not recieving one? Heart reading comes from Greek also for spiritually read. Heart, inner self, bowels, spirit self. A broken heart, is a broken spirit. Only God can mend a broken heart(spirit). -
"What step is there Weydon, that is not also a step in any relationship?" Doing everything He wants without question, for one. If this was your feeling of every relationship, you'd always be doing different, contradictory things (which makes sense in Catholicism at least). In all loving relationships I have had I made sacrifices and compromises and tried doing things I wasn't entirely behind, all out of love. This is true for my relationship with God as well. But also in every loving relationship I expect a reciprocation of understanding and a respect of certain differences. Generally, I also don't expect to go to hell if I don't adhere (allow me to let you skip writing your tweaking of the word: do thy bidding out of love and desire to know) to the person fully. "And if Zelda were a real person whom you loved and adored and also the author of the manual about himself; would you not read it with your heart?" Oh, but she was! She wrote the Bible through the holy guidance of her spirit through Nintendo executives--and she IS the instruction manual.
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But I do not do that
The Bible is just the personality we should be like("be ye Christ like") You are already a good person and most likely embrace the values already in the Bible. That is not the key to all of this, as stated before. The key to Heaven is, the reality of the relationship, with Christ. You do not even need a Bible to know the Father and his Son. Then His Spirit will enter you and then you will understand. Then is when the believers are filled and their vessel being the body is magically healed and strange things begin to occur for those who have this faith in them. ----- Sure bad earthly physical things will always still occur, but the real sickness in all men, is a spiritual one. ----- Some who do not believe see only the bad things that physicalities cause and forget the strength to conquer it is a spiritual power. ----- analogies: fill the hole, the void in your heart, something missing, empty place, spirit filled. ----- Jesus came to give us a spiritual kingdom first and foremost. Because I know that I am weak, He is strong, so I add His Spiritual power to aid me through anything. beating the physical suffering, gets its power from strong faith in spiritual power that Father alone has. The human heart(spirit) reads the Bible in turmoil and searches desperately for the answer there. The spiritually filled human heart(holy Spirit filled) reads the Bible in peacefulness and always finds the truth of it. When I said read it with your heart; that is where most Christians would; say open your heart, or open your heart to the teachings or pastor, as the case may be. Another mis-understood analogy. Opening must be explained as inviting a power like no other to show you what was missing and to finally have your eyes opened to something special. ----- Read your Bible again Weydon. Read the gospels and try to see what Christ was telling and thinking....Go ahead, I beg you to try and know Christ. ask Him by simply saying "Jesus I want to know who you are." and mean it with your human heart. Then read the gospel of John if you wish and become the character focused in the story. Be ye Christ like brother. do you not understand Weydon? I love you already, like Jesus loves you. Why would I dare, give you a key that doesn't work?
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I still don't understand your belief in this faith-healing magic. Are you going to honestly tell me you have never had a loved one, or a loved one's loved one, become sick or injured and not miraculously recover? "Some who do not believe see only the bad things that physicalities cause and forget the strength to conquer it is a spiritual power." I see the good things--even focus on them. I just don't ignore the bad. "Opening must be explained as inviting a power like no other to show you what was missing and to finally have your eyes opened to something special." I think there is a very small perecentage of people that haven't implored God to help them understand. "Read your Bible again Weydon." I'm done with that one, sorry. "Why would I dare, give you a key that doesn’t work?" I know you think it works, but I don't feel that way. Scientoligists also full heartedly believe Xenu captured alien souls and that those live inside us today. I think they're nuts (if it makes you feel better, I don't believe your beliefs make you NUTS...but that's only because my beliefs stem from a Christian upbringing too...).
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Healings come with messages also.
*I still don’t understand your belief in this faith-healing magic. Are you going to honestly tell me you have never had a loved one, or a loved one’s loved one, become sick or injured and not miraculously recover?* That is what I am trying to say above. Physical ailments are not what God is here to conquer. The sick may stay sick and physically die sick. I do not ignore the bad either, but the bad things are good things in the end always. This is because of the Spirit, this is so. Which is very logical: Jesus came the first time to heal what was most important; the spirit. He will come again and heal the physical, which in heavenly time span, is only two days later. ----- Hmmmm, thought just maybe you were finally seeing what I meant, but I see that the Bible is correct again; I can never make you grasp it with your mind and you seem to not want to read your Bible anymore with your heart(spirit). ----- Yes, I have seen and been a part of instantanious and miraculuos healings, but it is not for all to be healed. There is always a purpose for such things, in Christ. The final of it for me is; a spiritual conguerer leaves no physical writings, the spiritual sword bearer who is Jesus Christ wrote it on our hearts. ----- Maybe we should end this since we aren't really going any place with it. Still, I am super glad we talk in this forum and hope for more to come, in the future. Putting the God chat aside for the moment; we do agree on many ethical and even philosophic subjects. I consider you a good friend, even if we have never met. ----- -
I guess I get what you're saying about how the physical doesn't matter so much, but it's personally something I have trouble accepting. My physical life is not simply meaningless in the long run. I love my life and this physical universe. It is my home and there is much wonder and good to be had. I cannot even fathom a heaven that isn't fairly like our own world only with much less strife (and probably more super powers!) as well as an ability to explore our old "home" at will. I understand (or at least like to believe) that heaven will be way better anyway, but I don't find that as an excuse for the people of the world I love to suffer. "but the bad things are good things in the end always" That I most definately do not see. Considering it to be true is actually more horrifying to me. --------- Sorry about the Bible thing, but I'm done with that. I know you associate it very closely with God, but this does not mean I am done with God. I feel my leaving behind something that was just wrong to me has (ironically) bought me closer to the person the book was about. I quest for God constantly and consider Him a friend that I always talk with, even if half the time I'm doubting and angry. I have even accepted that maybe He is the intolerant and unjust God that I feel He is sometimes portrayed, and that this conclusion may have me damned. But this I cannot deny my true feelings, and can only pray to that same God that He is more understanding than that. ------------- "Maybe we should end this since we aren’t really going any place with it. Still, I am super glad we talk in this forum and hope for more to come, in the future." Ha, this will be at least our second mutual ending of a debate on good terms. We're both too stuborn to give up but too tired to go on ;) "Putting the God chat aside for the moment; we do agree on many ethical and even philosophic subjects." Yeah, funny how that is right? "I consider you a good friend, even if we have never met." Right back at you, man. I always enjoy our debates, even when they frustrate me ;)
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Get in line...6% Voted for by lod , WAHRevolution.
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Weydon
July 8, 2006
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bob2314
July 8, 2006
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July 9, 2006
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August 3, 2006
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C-a-s-m-e-r-o-k-u
January 5, 2007
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Oral Fixation
January 9, 2007
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Constantine
Changed the Bible around to potry women as sin. Don't come near me, Weydon, because if we have physical relations of any kind out of wedlock, you're going to Hell with me. Hehe. Over the times, Gospels and information about women of the Bible has been omitted.There isn't even any info in the book about Mary Maggie being a slut, yet she is called one. Shame.
Weydon
January 9, 2007
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No promises
January 11, 2007
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January 11, 2007
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OutofAfrica
January 13, 2007
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On another level - objectivity and ethics
Would you believe in me if I wrote about myself and said all sorts of amazing things. I doubt it. But, if you said some amazing things about me and this was corroborated by someone else then it would be one of two things - truth or conspiracy. People only indulge in the game of conspiracy if they have something to gain. Christianity has been around for two thousand years - longer than the odd 70 years we spend on earth. Deserves some though don't you think?scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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scarlet screams
June 29
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gene88
August 6
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hmmm
those are one of those questions no-one can quite answer. It certainly is a good one though.Please register or login to comment! It's totally free