I suppose for quite some time I have been unable to understand why we deserve Gods presence or hard proof, as this simply would undermine the concept of having faith, a much more courageous thing to have than eyes. One must realize that if the God of Christianity or Judaism were to appear to us all, we would be so overwhelmed by his greatness that the choice to accept or reject him would really no longer be much of a choice now would it? Religion does not offer such hard proof because hard proof is quite contrary to the point of religion. You might as well ask a criminal lawyer to take hallucinogens so that he can have a vision of what happened, and subsequently use such a thing as evidence in court—it is simply not his way, as “hard proof” is a thing of science, not religion. Those who want hard proof, ironically, are the same people that are not ready for hard proof. Does it really seem sensical to assert that God would want us believing in him because we found hard proof, or rather that we lived out a life of love and faith, thus finding him that way? Anyone who wants hard proof will probably be dissappointed, at least until they stop desiring hard proof, and must realize that all such attacks are based on a terrible misconception of God’s purpose.

God is an all perfect being by definition if indeed he exists. Such a being must possess necessary existence as he is a perfect being (perfection being that which it is better to be than not to be). Therefore, in order to even say that God does not exist, you must ignore that he is a necessary being by definition. To do this is to think of something entirely other than God. Or one can say that God as a necessary being does not exist and that is just idiotic. If something is necessary than there is no such reality that is without it or beyond it. This is a simple proof, but it stands the flames. And indeed, it does prove that God exists.

You’ll only find God in your heart and soul… When you pray it is your only proof.

If Bible is correct then Pentateuch is correct and thus Koran; cause they all need to prove the other. But if you examine all three, you’ll see that they are only summarized and misinterpreted copies of Sumerian tablets about ‘creation of solar system, of mankind (Adam&Tiamat not Eve), and Noah story (sumerian Ziusudru). What sumerians wrote, before bible and others are written, is that; ‘Anunnakis from the planet Nibiru visited earth; they genetically changed homo-sapiens into homo-erectus in 150000 years (they will otherwise evolve in 2 million years just ). This explains Adam/Eve story and our likeness with gods. But Nibiruns forgot their goals and began having fun (sexually) with their creatures. When earth’s climate undergone a sudden change which resulted in The Flood (Deluge), they didnt inform mankind about this. But only Enki warned Ziusudru and he (whom you know as Noah ) survived with his family and saved some samples of the species etc. This evidence turned to be the Noah’s Ark story in modern religions…

If you want more details about these, better go and buy Sitchin’s books who analysed sumerian tablets.

‘Gods’ in this ‘subject’ refer to those Nibiruns/Anunnakis.

well i think that they whole idea came up just to keep ppl in line. so that ppl did just sleep with other ppl and do dumb thing cuz alot of ppl dont have morals without there believes! sooo…. i have no proof of god

It’s called faith, and that’s the entire base of God – take a class on it or something. Jeez.

There’s a difference between evidence and proof. There is evidence that God exists, but there is nothing we recognize as proof. (If there was proof, there would be no need for faith.)

At the same time, there is evidence that God does not exist, however there is no proof.

Faith, faith, faith my friend. It’s all knowledge is, so the greater the faith, the better you “know”. And if there were evidence for God, some people would only refute it, and once refuted, it would be counted as evidence against God, so God lets no evidence be found of Himself, so that no evidence may be put against Him.

If you want hard facts about something, go look up your city population or something, cause you’re not going to find any about God. God is supposed to be a diety, there is not going to be any undeniable evidence on the subject, if there was, I don’t think there would be any athiests. It’s a belief, not a fact.

One does not need the proof of God to believe in God. This is what belief is. But one would need a reason to believe. Blaise Pascal gives an interesting concepts. He weighs off the advantages and disadvantages of believing and finds more advantages then disadvantages. If one is a Christian they will either gain or maintain the status quo. But if one is not the a Christian they will either lose or maintain the status quo. Those who act to gain on his behalf will believe.

But the problem I have is it does not give a necessary argument on what to believe. This is currently what people are working on. Proving the existence of a nonnaturalistic entity in naturalistic terms is impossible. Many have tried to do it throughout history but all of their arguments have been up-rooted and brought to proper burial.

No one should ever try to argue for the existence of a non-proveable entity, merely why one should believe in such an entity. I should note that I too am an atheist, I just do not think that a god is simply impossible, merely that it is unproveable.

well i think that they whole idea came up just to keep ppl in line. so that ppl did just sleep with other ppl and do dumb thing cuz alot of ppl dont have morals without there believes! sooo…. i have no proof of god

To me more mind baffling is the thought, why some of us believe in him and while some of us don’t and to some it just doesn’t matter ?

Where does this notion to believe or not comes from ?

Prenote: I am not a Christian. This is an argument as to why there is no proof and never will be.

Yes, I know that’s what people always say and that it’s hard to ‘just have faith.’ But that’s what religion is about. If the existance of God (or any diety, for that matter) were PROVEN then there would be no point in religion. Everyone would then believe in God and be perfect people, always giving, making sure they will get into Heaven. See, that’s not what Christianity is about. If you are good at heart you will be saved but if you are not then you will not be saved. If you take Jesus and God into your heart and have faith that they exist, and you listen to their words (both in the Bible and in any way that they may communicate to you) then you are a Christian. If you can not accept the fact that God has created everything, then so be it. You are a non-believer and there is no way to change that, unless you have a change of heart and begin to believe that the only possible way we are here is for God to have created us. You really just have to decide for yourself – it can not be proven. But of course, it can also not be proven that there is NO God. Now, while there is evidence both ways.. this evidence will never lead anyone to the conclusion they are looking for. Really, it all boils down to the fact that you just need faith.

Kevin, Believe it or not, when I taught myself how to build my own computer, PC, I finally understood Kant, the philosopher! So, I urge you to learn the inner workings of the PC. Kant taught that we cannot know the outside world, OW! The OW merely triggers our inner states or conditions, & these are our only reality! In other words, we create our own world, due to the nature of our body/mind, BM! For example the OW triggers the idea & experience of redness or blueness within you, but the OW cannot trigger those states within the BM of your pet dog! Colors don’t exist out there! In the PC all ‘outside world’ phenomena has to be translated into the electrical binary patterns which are the stuffs digital systems understand. Your PC cannot undertand – & wasn’t designed to undertand – the letter ‘A’, for example. All living organisms – including you!- are in the same predicament! The OW has to be translated by your sense organs into the electrical pulses the brain can process. These pulses are the only stuffs our brains can dealt with! For instance, when the air vibrates at 110 cycles per second your ears will respond by sending pulses into the auditory center of the brain where it’s magically turn into the sound of the 5th string of your guitar, the note A! Our brains cannot dealt directly with the OW! Because of this, if you connect your auditory nerve to a machine that can mimic the same pulses, your brain has no choice but to synthesize these pulses into the sound of the note A! So, whether you’re a theist or an atheist, it totally depends on your BM! It’s all inside you! If you believe in God, so be it! But if you don’t, please don’t be guilty about it; it’s your nature & your reality!

Peace, sondadareas

When John Cage entered the anechoic chamber at Hardvard ( room designed in such a way that the walls, ceiling and floor will absorb all sounds made in the room, rather than bouncing them back as echoes) he listened to the silence and reporting hearing two distinct sounds: one of very high pitch, one of very low pitch. When you silence the mind (and I mean truly silence the mind)you can hear to distinct sounds, one of a high pitch and one of a low pitch. Try listening to that sound, the veil will lift…

Everyone here is saying that there is no proof. We all know that. I believe Kevin is looking for evidence here. Perhaps it would be a good idea to present some rather than say that there is no proof. I’ve got some evidence..

This first piece of evidence is somewhat indired, but I still see it as good evidence. Well, everyone knows about the big bang theory and the concept behind it. All mass in the universe confined to an object smaller than the head of a pin. Sudden, immense heat. A gigantic explosion.. and here we are now, living during that explosion. Well where does all of this mass come from and how is it confined to a single point? Science can not explain that yet, and I doubt it ever will. Also: where does the sudden, immense heat come from? Another thing that science can not explain. Perhaps God made these things happen. As I said.. this is not direct evidence. But it is, in fact, a logical explaination as to how the universe was created. God made it.

For the second peice of evidence, I suppose you should do some research of your own to fully understand. Have you ever heard of the Shroud of Turin? The Shroud of Turin is supposedly the shroud which Jesus was wrapped in after his burial. Here is a picture of it: http://www.forteantimes.com/gallery/images/shroud.jpg. The shroud has been passed down through royal families and through the Church since.. well, since at least the 13th century – that is as far as I know but I’m sure it had been passed down as Jesus’ burial shroud before then. Before the camera was invented it looked pretty much like any old shroud. When it was first photographed, the photographer noticed the picture on it as he was developing the negative. The picture shows blood around the top of the head where a crown of thorns would have been placed, blood and deep puncture wounds on the wrists where nails would have been (and the same at the ankles), whip marks on the back, etc. There have been certain theories as to how the picture got on the cloth, but many have either been proven wrong or are already illogical before they are proven. There are two main theories at this point (they could also be combined to one theory). One is that an intense radiation was emitted from what ever was inside the cloth, which would either be a body or a very accurate representation of one. The other theory is a sudden, extremely intense light from what was inside the shroud. It has been speculated that it would be almost impossible to create a picture this exact with the exact properties which this has. The resurrection would explain sudden radiation or extremely bright light. And well, the only thing that can explain the resurrection is a supernatural power.

Supposedly Noah’s ark has been found. There is no proof that it is actually the ship that the biblical Noah built, but there is strong evidence. The ship sits atop Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey. It rests in Ahora Gorge , I believe. The mountain is almost 17,000 feet (over three miles) high. The location on this specific mountain is even more amazing because of the fact that it states the name of this mountain in the Bible: “And the ark rested in the seventh month on the seventeeth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat” Genesis 8:4. The wood used to create the boat which was found was analyzed. The wood came from a tree which was found nowhere near the mountain – I believe the closest it was found was about 150-200 miles. It would have been impossible to move something of this size that far unless it had floated there on water – and even at that point it would be impossible to lift it onto the top of the mountain. I believe all of what I’ve presented here is very strong evidence that there was a gigantic flood and that someone was expecting it. There is much more evidence showing that this is, in fact, the ark spoken of in the Bible.. it would just take me far too long to list it all.

I’ll stop here seeing as I’ve said a lot already and I must be going anyway. If you wish for me to present more evidence, let me know and I’d be happy to.

Hmm… Lets think… There may be no evidence to you, but thats because you aren’t a Christian. I mean, Christianity is based apon the ability to have blind faith, so if you don’t have the faith in you to begin with there will be no proof (to you)

And from a relegious point of view, looking in the mirror would be suffice in proving his existence.

Hi there debate-starting-person. I'm a pagan, and I'm not going to prove god exists. I am going to tell you that you don't get it if you need proof to believe in something. Go adore visible chemical reactions if you're so fond of proof.