Here is a 2000 year old paradox, to which no one, as of yet, as provided a logically acceptable solution. Imagine this:
A traveller was walking one day when he met an old man sitting beside the road smoking a pipe. 'The first thing said to you by the first person you meet today will not be true,' said the old man. 'Trust me - don't believe what he says!' 'OK,' said the traveller. 'But hang on a minute: you're the first person I've met today.' 'Exactly!' said the old man.
Do you smell a fault?
Surely, if If the old man speaks the truth, then the first thing he says is not true. But if the first thing he says is not true, then the first thing he says is true. Concluding that what he says is both true and untrue! But surely reasoning, our most lucid tool as philosophers, cannot and does not allow for this!
So what's going on?
(Well, if you're not sure, you're not alone. This one actually killed off Philetas of Cos, who couldn't figure it out either, claiming;
"O Stranger: Philetas of Cos am I, 'Twas the Liar who made me die, And the bad nights caused thereby.")
Happy philosophizing...
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The Guy was crazy16% Voted for by footballfan385, Throwing The Rocks, LordBails, imaghost, Untouchable 888. (9 total)
I believe the old man was simply on drugs
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Double negative cancellation14% Voted for by Royal Blue Cuteness, Stumbled Into God, Lou Montagne, lordmonkey, MindsAbyss. (8 total)
The first thing said to the traveller was "'The first thing said to you by the first person you meet today will not be true,' said the old man. Since this was the first statement this statement was obviously false. when followed by 'Trust me - don't believe what he says!' He is advising the traveller to disregard his previous statement which admitted itself to be false. Thereby telling the truth in his second statement. When the traveller pointed out that he was the first person he had met that day, the old man acknowledged that the traveller had figured it out. It is a classic case of double negative cancellation
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Crazy old pranksters....14% Voted for by GreensBabe, Launcelot, christopheshea, destinygetsnervous, IszyVa. (8 total)
Well, since the old man is obviously a mortal and therfore imperfect, he cannot say with any certainty that the first man the traveller meets will lie.
The only way for the old man to know this , is for he himself to lie to the traveller. The old man says the first he will meet will lie, therefore he is simply screwing with the traveller, and causing general chaos.
Who says a contradiction is a wrong answer anyhow?
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Silllyness7% Voted for by Bob the Elder, Lingua of Clementia, ExpensiveThinker, Khoka.
that's silly, it is obviously a statement which cannot be true, that's all there is to it. and no, our philosopers tools of reason should not allow allow for this. our tools of reason should let us see that that which the old mans states as fact is in fact an impossibility, nothing more or less. simple.
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Uncertainty5% Voted for by SoCiAlLy--ExCePtEd, razvan784, ExpensiveThinker.
Let statement A be: "this statement is false." (or "this is a lie" or "right now i'm lying to you") Is statement A true or false? We simply can't tell, and we have to live with that. The notion of truth is insufficient.
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there is no truth or untruth5% Voted for by knaveofhearts, EmilyAr, 5th position Gb.
Perhaps it is neither true nor untrue because neither truth nor untruth truely exist. Much as everything is not neither real nor unreal. These are concepts created by human minds to make it easier to control people. But when you look at it by definition, everything is both a lie and a truth, and therefore they cancel eachother out, or at least that is how I see it right now. Neither really exist, so the man was neither lying nor telling the truth, he just was, and what he said just was as well. -Emily
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he's telling the truth either way...3% Voted for by Stumbled Into God, fruity loop.
But the old man never knew that he was the first person the traveller had came across so he's telling the truth as he might have been warning him about something which he thought another person had told him. Though since he was the first person the traveller came across then he was telling the truth as he was stating that he was lying as he was the first person to speak to him.
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Lie or Truth?3% Voted for by star-filled-sky, The Blind Bandit.
It is neither a lie nor a truth. It is neutral.
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Corollary3% Voted for by EarthToJim, RuthArabellaTrasher.
If a tree falls in a forest and only Al Gore is there to hear it, will he lie to the first person he tells about it?
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I am telling you a lieVoted for by NeferMaatNetjer.
if one says "I am telling you a lie", one commits a logical absurdity! if the statement is true, it is not a lie, therefore the teller is not lying if the statement is a lie, then the teller is telling the truth when he says he is lying, which means he is NOT lying
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Is this paradox about the meaning of meaning?Voted for by Lou Montagne.
Crazy pranksters....
"Since the old man is obviously a mortal and therfore imperfect, he cannot say with any certainty that the first man the traveller meets will lie."
No, not really. The old man is not a mortal as such; he is a fictional karakter in a paradoxical story that has been around at least since the time of Philetas of Cos, to baffle us about the scope of language in conveing meaning.
But what's happening here? Think of 'the old man' as of language. Than ask yourself: how could we ever deside upon the value (true of false? yes of no? 1 or 0?)of a selfreflective statement?
With his afirmative 'Exactely' we are tempted to take the statement of the old man to have bearing on the whole of the situation, but in reality no men has such oversite.
I am not satisfied with my explination, but I do have the feeling that we should be able to solve this paradox.
Is it that the value of a selfrefelctive statement can not be generaly determined without the aid of an outside assumption? The famous paradox of Epiminedes the Kretenser that states that all Kretensers are liars, seems to fall into the same catagorie.
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It's a Mind Bender...Voted for by FriendFury.
Since a well known philosopher died trying to figger this out, I don't think I'm going to try it. Not everything requires an answer, guys.
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That doesn't explain it.Voted for by ennoia.
Do you mean the old man? The traveller didnt say anything.
But you see, if he IS lying, as you say, then it follows that the first thing said to the traveller that morning, was, in fact, a lie.
So it then seems logical to suggest that if the first thing said to the traveller that morning was a lie, then the old man's warning was true. But how can it be true if we just agreed he lied?
And even if the traveller himself did lie about this event ever happening, what does it matter? Even if it hasnt happened, it still makes for much puzzling. So that doesnt really explain it.
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Gee goodnessVoted for by Embers of Elm.
That old man is senile!! leave gramps alone! He says that every morning @_@
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September 27, 2005
ok
ok seriously tho, there is no answer to this, i mean, the simple answer is that the old man just said a completely useless comment to try to confuse the traveller, it has no relevance to anything and because it contradicts itself like it does, it is a wrong statement, in mathmatical terms, this would fall under no solution and in people terms this would fall under the guy is on potpnktrky
December 7, 2006
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October 4, 2005
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Yea...
they never specified what was in that pipe of hisOctober 13, 2005
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Mhm
I totally agree.Zhell1313
September 17, 2006
GREAT SCOTT!! I have got it!!!!!
The word "truth" and the word "lie" are meaningless. They are just a form of communication. The meanings are made up by man. The old man and the traveler are not really here. Nor is anything else. It is quite the same as the ole’ Cat in the box theory. How things are alive and dead at the same time. It’s all depends on you visual perspective. For example, I was able to extract breast milk from a man. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it. So was the man lying? Or telling the truth? He was speaking gibberish. Gibberish of an insane person. Sort of like this. “A big acorn level fluh.” You see it all boils down to the fact that you have to look through something in order to biggie size your order. Thank you. And good night.December 15, 2006
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December 8, 2006
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your looking to hard
It’s simple, it is a moral. The old man is trying to tell the young boy that no matter who says what never take anything on faith and nothing is true to "you" until "you" prove it true. In other words don’t trust anyone. it is a simple moral put into a riddle, nothing more...though I am open to critics...MindsAbyss
March 2, 2007
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March 2, 2007
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I would not of died and would of solved the silly child level play on words.
March 2, 2007
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young boy?
When you add a child to the story we sure as hell can tell you did not read it correctly and can't answer it off the bat by such addings to it.Aden
July 7, 2007
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